Australia - Five found dead in home. Bedford, Perth WA, Sept 2018

[Eloise]

Do family annihilators usually start with abuse or violence? Or does it come from nowhere? Is it preventable in any meaningful and targeted way?

 

[sosocurious]

“It’s impossible for me not to take stock that in the last four months, 15 people have lost their lives in three separate family tragedies,” Mr Dawson told reporters. (WA Police Commissioner Chris Dawson)

“It’s an absolute tragedy.

“Everyone is concerned about this - we have been for a long period of time.”

Nocookies
The Australian - September 10, 2018

According to domestic violence group the Red Heart Campaign, the deaths of the Bedford family are the 52nd and 53rd women killed in Australia this year.

The three children are the 16th, 17th and 18th kids to die in 2018.

Tragic incident in Bedford home

 

[spangled]

Story doesn't seem to be getting much input on here!

Dad 'murdered family before spending SIX DAYS with them inside the house in Bedford Perth' | Daily Mail Online

From link above:

"A father-of-three accused of murdering his daughters, wife and mother-in-law allegedly spent six days inside their home with the bodies.

Anthony Robert Harvey, 24, allegedly used multiple weapons including knives and a blunt instrument to butcher his family members on September 3 and 4.

Police will allege Mr Harvey first killed his wife Mara, 47, daughter Charlotte, three, and two-year-old twins Alice and Beatrix inside their home in Bedford, Perth.

When the children's grandmother Beverley Quinn, 74, arrived at the Coode Street home the next day, Mr Harvey allegedly murdered her too.

The lawn-mowing franchisee allegedly remained with the bodies for the next five days, before driving 1,400km to a police station in the remote Pilbara region"

 

[spangled]

I believe one of the earlier reports suggested the house had been incredibly quiet for the week, with his ute gone.

If he actually WAS in there, what on earth was he doing ?! That makes me lean more towards him being in some terrible psychotic state.

Anyone found any social media?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

There is a lot said on different forums, about buying into Jims franchises. Ongoing monthly fee is said to be high. Waiting for referrals from Jims can be frustrating. If the season is dry - as it often is here - there will not be a lot of gardening work available.

Thanks - that's very informative. I'd not heard of the company/group before but see they now have a toe-hold in the UK and Canada.

Many people say to go out on your own, set up your own little gardening business, rather than buy into the franchise where you must pay the monthly fee - regardless of whether or not you have made much money that month.

Franchises can be very attractive simply because so much of the start-up work is done for you and in theory you should be able to hit the ground running. Back in the 1980s I looked into taking on a franchise for Stefanel clothing (Italian, a bit like Benetton but less colourful); the start-up fee would have covered everything including fitting out a shop and the initial stock. It was really a turn-key situation which I think has been the case with all UK-based franchises.

But in this case, where the individual already has extensive experience in the field in question, it would make a lot of sense to go independent and start small. Businesses like this probably get a lot of work by word of mouth referrals by satisfied customers.

Jims routes the phone calls they get for work to whoever they feel is right for the work, and some people on the forums feel that they do not get their fair share.

That doesn't sit right with me, since I've understood a service-based franchise to generally include exclusive use of a defined territory for that particular service. Work that comes via the central operation is automatically passed on to the franchise holder for that territory, not just whoever HQ thinks should get this particular job. The exception would be where a particular territory is vacant at the time so work might be shared out amongst the surrounding franchisees for the time being.

I suppose it depends on how Jim's actually works, given that it includes franchises for so many different services and it's possible that some franchisees have bought into several different services.

 

[Jennifer17]

Thanks - that's very informative. I'd not heard of the company/group before but see they now have a toe-hold in the UK and Canada.



Franchises can be very attractive simply because so much of the start-up work is done for you and in theory you should be able to hit the ground running. Back in the 1980s I looked into taking on a franchise for Stefanel clothing (Italian, a bit like Benetton but less colourful); the start-up fee would have covered everything including fitting out a shop and the initial stock. It was really a turn-key situation which I think has been the case with all UK-based franchises.

But in this case, where the individual already has extensive experience in the field in question, it would make a lot of sense to go independent and start small. Businesses like this probably get a lot of work by word of mouth referrals by satisfied customers.



That doesn't sit right with me, since I've understood a service-based franchise to generally include exclusive use of a defined territory for that particular service. Work that comes via the central operation is automatically passed on to the franchise holder for that territory, not just whoever HQ thinks should get this particular job. The exception would be where a particular territory is vacant at the time so work might be shared out amongst the surrounding franchisees for the time being.

I suppose it depends on how Jim's actually works, given that it includes franchises for so many different services and it's possible that some franchisees have bought into several different services.

Yes, I agree with all this. They do not just sell franchises off to multiple people in the same territory, that is the appeal of it. One of my friend's son in law bought into a Jims franchise and did quite well. Lots of cash jobs too, from people who saw the dark green trailers and just hired them in person.

 

[sosocurious]

At around midday on Sunday a man in his 20s drove to his father's house prior to attending a regional WA police station hundreds of kilometres north of Perth, a source told Fairfax Media.

Perth mass killing: Three toddlers, mother and grandmother found dead

Did his father reside in Pannawonica?
Why drive all that way to hand yourself into the police, after having sat in the house for days?

 

[SouthAussie]

Did his father reside in Pannawonica?
Why drive all that way to hand yourself into the police, after having sat in the house for days?

Pannawonica is in the Pilbara region, the region where they both used to work. Could be something to do with his comfort level in that region, perhaps knowing the small team of police there.
And/or maybe his dad currently works there (his dad probably is still of working age, considering the age of the murderer) and convinced his son to turn himself in .... otherwise he would report him to the police himself.


Mrs Harvey and Mr Harvey both used to work for a Sino Steel Pilbara mine .....
'Heaven gained five angels': Slain Perth mum's sister pens heartbreaking tribute

 

[Jennifer17]

There is something really wrong with a young man who wants to marry a woman 18 years older than himself. She would probably be just several years younger than his mother. That should have been the first flag of alarm.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder why they did not just return to the Pilbara so the killer could resume working there? If they were so hard up for money. There are townships close by the mining areas where they could have lived.

Maybe he was not wanted for work in that region any more? Otherwise, if Mara wanted to live near her mum in Perth, why would he not just continue to fly in/fly out?
Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of families live that way. The primary parent residing in a town where the children can grow up, and the other parent flying in and flying out for mining work.

 

[Morrisa]

Family celebrated Fathers Day then 12 hours later Dad 'murdered wife children and their grandmother' | Daily Mail Online

Jim's Mowing managing director Jim Penman said they had some trouble getting Mr Harvey to return phone calls, but were not aware of his financial woes.

'Anthony was a well-respected and well-liked franchisee who had given no hint of financial or emotional problems in the many contacts we had with him over the past few months,' he said.

'The only suggestion of trouble was his failure on several occasions to respond to phone calls, made as part of our effort to keep in regular contact with franchisees.'

 

[SouthAussie]

There is something really wrong with a young man who wants to marry a woman 18 years older than himself. She would probably be just several years younger than his mother. That should have been the first flag of alarm.

Seems quite unusual. Though men do it all the time, so maybe not so much of a red flag, or maybe shouldn't be .... unless we want one standard for men, and one for women.

Not too many women working in the mining companies, as opposed to the vast number of men. If Mara was pregnant to him, that might have been why she decided to become his wife?

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

I wonder why they did not just return to the Pilbara so the killer could resume working there? If they were so hard up for money. There are townships close by the mining areas where they could have lived.

Maybe he was not wanted for work in that region any more? Otherwise, if Mara wanted to live near her mum in Perth, why would he not just continue to fly in/fly out? END QUOTES


There’s a lot less FIFO jobs in WA these days and if she’s a mum of three toddlers I can imagine she thought living close to her Mum and family was the best option. After all she owned three properties that we know of so they were better off financially than a lot of people and maybe money just deteriorated once the babies came or there were health issues etc

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

Ugh messed up with my response which was this:

There’s a lot less FIFO jobs in WA these days and if she’s a mum of three toddlers I can imagine she thought living close to her Mum and family was the best option. After all she owned three properties that we know of so they were better off financially than a lot of people and maybe money just deteriorated once the babies came or there were health issues etc.

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

Also yes he was a lot younger than her but in the pictures of them together they look of a similar age and don’t look mismatched. These murders have really thrown me as I live in Perth and that house is on same street as my grandmothers old house. I can’t imagine how he could have murdered his mother in law the next day after being surrounded by the bodies of those three precious babies and his wife for 24 hours. Why didn’t he run or not answer or make up a story to explain their absence? How do you build up the rage and mindset to murder again in this scenario? Was he psychotic? Or full of rage?

 

[SouthAussie]

Also yes he was a lot younger than her but in the pictures of them together they look of a similar age and don’t look mismatched. These murders have really thrown me as I live in Perth and that house is on same street as my grandmothers old house. I can’t imagine how he could have murdered his mother in law the next day after being surrounded by the bodies of those three precious babies and his wife for 24 hours. Why didn’t he run or not answer or make up a story to explain their absence? How do you build up the rage and mindset to murder again in this scenario? Was he psychotic? Or full of rage?

The timing is interesting. The morning after Fathers Day. I wonder if that played any part. Though I am not sure what that part could be.

Did he not want to be a dad (any more), if the truth be known? Did he resent Mara's doting attention being on her 3 children?

That would not explain why he didn't just walk away, if that was the case. But these familial murders seem to involve an element of "if I can't have you, nobody will".

 

[Morrisa]

OMG!

Mother-of-three Mara Harvey was murdered only minutes after her late-night shift at a local Coles ended, police will allege.

Mrs Harvey, 41, was returning to her home in Perth's inner-city suburb of Inglewood from her shift stocking shelves at a local Coles at around 11pm on September 3.

Her husband, Anthony Harvey, 24, allegedly murdered her and their three daughters shortly after she arrived home.

Husband accused of murdering Mara Harvey allegedly waited until she finished work, sent work emails | Daily Mail Online

 

[SouthAussie]

OMG!

Mother-of-three Mara Harvey was murdered only minutes after her late-night shift at a local Coles ended, police will allege.

Mrs Harvey, 41, was returning to her home in Perth's inner-city suburb of Inglewood from her shift stocking shelves at a local Coles at around 11pm on September 3.

Her husband, Anthony Harvey, 24, allegedly murdered her and their three daughters shortly after she arrived home.

Husband accused of murdering Mara Harvey allegedly waited until she finished work, sent work emails | Daily Mail Online

I saw on a police presser that Mara and her mum were murdered in the kitchen (at different times) and the children were murdered in 'different rooms of the house'.

I haven't heard what order they were murdered in - if that has yet been determined ... if Mara perhaps walked into a house of little children murdered in their beds.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Mother-of-three Mara Harvey was murdered only minutes after her late-night shift at a local Coles ended, police will allege.

That clears up something that was uncertain earlier - Mara was working outside of the home and bringing in money, which means her husband's claim to be the only source of income coming into the house was false.

 

[Jennifer17]

That clears up something that was uncertain earlier - Mara was working outside of the home and bringing in money, which means her husband's claim to be the only source of income coming into the house was false.

But she wasn't earning enough for him. He thought he had snared a rich older woman but he still had to mow lawns which he obviously was not too good at.