GUILTY Australia - Jamie Gao, 20, murdered, Padstow, NSW, 20 May 2014

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Mrs G Norris said:
If they said THE drugs (and god knows if police told media the true story, or if media reported it correctly) then it stands to reason they knew there were going to be drugs to be traced before they got to the car .. so .. the fact that there had been a drug transaction at the 'meeting' was either told to them (by Jamie's friends or lawyer .. erm OK, Jamie's friends) OR they had some other source of intelligence, because yes, knowing Jamie's activities then drugs was a possibility, but they couldn't have KNOWN that .. unless they were TOLD, or they were in his phone, or they knew BEFORE the meeting what was going down.

Also, is it just me .. WTH is up with police, not only searching the garage, and the car, but upon finding the drugs, just going right ahead and moving the car right outa there .. I can think of a couple of other fun options, they could have a) replaced the drugs with some street packaged sugar, or b) informed McNamara that they were removing the car. Is it normal for police upon finding evidence to simply remove an entire car like that? Wouldn't someone notice, even at that time of night, and since I guess they didn't get a tow truck in to remove it which would have caused enough commotion to alert residents, did they just drive it on out of there .. couldn't that destroy evidence?
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I think they would have taken photos of everything to protect the evidence.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Also, is it just me .. WTH is up with police, not only searching the garage, and the car, but upon finding the drugs, just going right ahead and moving the car right outa there .. I can think of a couple of other fun options, they could have a) replaced the drugs with some street packaged sugar, or b) informed McNamara that they were removing the car. Is it normal for police upon finding evidence to simply remove an entire car like that?
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McNamara may have been completely unaware that his car was gone until he went to use it. NSW Police have a number of powers available to them to search and seize in the absence of a warrant, conditional upon things such as what they search, where it is, and what kind of offence the search is in relation to.

For example, the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 - s36(3)(b) would extend to them in the present instance, the power to search and seize McNamara's vehicle and it's contents with neither a warrant nor notification.

Alternatively, Division 2 of Part 5 of the same Act can be used to obtain a covert search warrant, whereby he would also be unaware.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/leara2002451/s36.html

It's normal for the vehicle to be towed by FSG to be processed. Why would you break into and search McNamara's vehicle covertly, when it may take hours to process, in an uncontrolled environment where the lighting is bad, and expose yourself to being seen by McNamara or his neighbours?

Answer? You don't. You stick wheel trolleys under the wheels, put it on a low loading vehicle tow trailer or good old fashioned tow truck and get it the hell out of there, as quickly and smoothly as possible.

Then, you process it properly and carefully, bag, tag and process, and be ever so careful to preserve the valuable evidentiary chain. Often, it's hard to find any better forensic evidence to link the deceased to the accused than the vehicle in which they were carried. Trace evidence from the victim in the accused's vehicle is oh so difficult to explain. Isn't it?
 
Estelle said:
When he noticed his car missing, I wonder whether he guessed the police had taken it or just thought it had been stolen. If so, he still thought it safe to drive to Cooma! I guess McNamara had another car to drive to Cooma. Maybe police followed him there too. Did they arrest him in Cooma or in Sydney?
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Yeah he had the blue car too, they must have tailed him there and back, they picked him up on the way back at Kyeemagh, so not far away from his house ..

with McNamara in the state’s south, detectives executed a number of search warrants at their homes, seizing several cars and crucial evidence. Also seized was McNamara’s Quintrex boat from his Caringbah storage unit, which police allege was used to dump Gao’s body.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...left-cops-shaken/story-fni0cx4q-1226938455360

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/...17d681632bd40!2m2!1d151.1601953!2d-33.9515321

So while he was down south they were executing search warrants at his home, must have been a nervous drive home.
 
Estelle said:
When he noticed his car missing, I wonder whether he guessed the police had taken it or just thought it had been stolen. If so, he still thought it safe to drive to Cooma! I guess McNamara had another car to drive to Cooma. Maybe police followed him there too. Did they arrest him in Cooma or in Sydney?
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Police arrested McNamara in Sydney (Cronulla).
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Yeah he had the blue car too, they must have tailed him there and back, they picked him up on the way back at Kyeemagh, so not far away from his house ..

with McNamara in the state’s south, detectives executed a number of search warrants at their homes, seizing several cars and crucial evidence. Also seized was McNamara’s Quintrex boat from his Caringbah storage unit, which police allege was used to dump Gao’s body.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...left-cops-shaken/story-fni0cx4q-1226938455360

https://www.google.com.au/maps/dir/...17d681632bd40!2m2!1d151.1601953!2d-33.9515321

So while he was down south they were executing search warrants at his home, must have been a nervous drive home.
Click to expand...

He was in the states south on Sunday - I thought they got the white car while he was asleep early Saturday. Does this mean they searched more than once? And how many cars did he have?


They had swooped about 4am on Saturday last week while McNamara was asleep, secretly removing the car — along with the drugs.

But it wasn’t until Sunday morning that McNamara discovered the car was gone, triggering a flurry of panicked calls to his alleged accomplice, disgraced former police detective Roger Rogerson. A short time later, McNamara drove to Cooma prison, in southern NSW, to visit an inmate.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226938455360
 
saint_jude said:
McNamara may have been completely unaware that his car was gone until he went to use it. NSW Police have a number of powers available to them to search and seize in the absence of a warrant, conditional upon things such as what they search, where it is, and what kind of offence the search is in relation to.

For example, the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 - s36(3)(b) would extend to them in the present instance, the power to search and seize McNamara's vehicle and it's contents without notification.

Alternatively, Division 2 of Part 5 of the same Act can be used to obtain a covert search warrant, whereby he would also be unaware.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/leara2002451/s36.html

It's normal for the vehicle to be towed by FSG to be processed. Why would you break into and search McNamara's vehicle covertly, when it may take hours to process, in an uncontrolled environment where the lighting is bad, and expose yourself to being seen by McNamara or his neighbours?

Answer? You don't. You stick wheel trolleys under the wheels, put it on a low loading vehicle tow trailer or good old fashioned tow truck and get it the hell out of there, as quickly and smoothly as possible.

Then, you process it properly and carefully, bag, tag and process, and be ever so careful to preserve the valuable evidentiary chain. Often, it's hard to find any better forensic evidence to link the deceased to the accused than the vehicle in which they were carried. Trace evidence from the victim in the accused's vehicle is oh so difficult to explain. Isn't it?
Click to expand...

My bold :)
Thanks for the info on the Acts.

So McNamara wasn't home that night? or he was home?
ETA 1) Ok - I see in the thread above McNamara was down South (thanks to the poster :))
ETA 2) Err - no, I see it looks as if he was home ... :confused:
Was anyone else home that night?
If someone was stealing my car - I think I'd wake up - especially if it contained 3kgs of drugs, and had had a body in it.

Was the meeting in Cooma arranged by McNamara - or was he possibly called down there by an old friend.
That I could understand if the Police wanted him out of the house for a considerable amount of time to do a search and take the car.
They could waiver the 24hour notice in advance for it.


ETA - just realized the blue car must be the 2nd car - not the car that went to the storage unit - this must be the one that went to Cooma?


636893-76af963c-e523-11e3-aae6-8a781d1cd673.jpg


Former detective Glen McNamara’s car being taken away from Kogarah Police Statio Picture Craig Greenhill Source: News Corp Australia

.
 
sleepinoz said:
He was in the states south on Sunday - I thought they got the white car while he was asleep early Saturday. Does this mean they searched more than once? And how many cars did he have?


They had swooped about 4am on Saturday last week while McNamara was asleep, secretly removing the car — along with the drugs.

But it wasn’t until Sunday morning that McNamara discovered the car was gone, triggering a flurry of panicked calls to his alleged accomplice, disgraced former police detective Roger Rogerson. A short time later, McNamara drove to Cooma prison, in southern NSW, to visit an inmate.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1226938455360
Click to expand...

Well yes, he has two cars. Until NSWPF had processed Mac's car, they probably didn't have enough admissible evidence of him committing a serious offence to enable them to successfully apply for and obtain a covert search warrant for his flat (which they appear to have had).

They probably seized his car without a warrant (see my earlier post about how this is possible), as a stepping stone to collect evidence and build their case for a warrant.

I'm guessing he stumbled downstairs on Sunday morning, to get his station wagon to go to Cooma and said 'Damn. My car's gone." and as that started to sink in he then thought "ooooooh this can't be good".
 
I'm baaaaaack! Lol Hey, you wonderful Aussies you, I couldn't stay away. So I've read everything to date, and wowsers, is this a doozie.
Low-level drug dealers aren't usually trusted with that amount of drugs, IMO. So, I'm wondering if Jamie was indeed an informant in return for LE to look the other way, kwim?? I am also wondering if news of Jamie testifying for the crime commission got around. If he gave testimony against a competitor or even the Dumb & Dumber crew, that in itself could be the reason for the hit. And make no mistake, this was a hit, imo. I have a hard time believing LE had Jamie on their radar for 3 yrs but never no drug arrests. There had to be a reason for this. Jamie was playing for both teams.
As far as the D&D crew, I think they were old school and just conducted business as usual. It never crossed their minds that Jamie would be reported missing so soon or that they would be looked at for the crime. They also had no idea Jamie was telling anyone who would listen that he was meeting Glen.
Just adding my :twocents: to your wonderful observations.
 
saint_jude said:
Well yes, he has two cars. Until NSWPF had processed Mac's car, they probably didn't have enough admissible evidence of him committing a serious offence to enable them to successfully apply for and obtain a covert search warrant for his flat (which they appear to have had).

They probably seized his car without a warrant (see my earlier post about how this is possible), as a stepping stone to collect evidence and build their case for a warrant.

I'm guessing he stumbled downstairs on Sunday morning, to get his station wagon to go to Cooma and said 'Damn. My car's gone." and as that started to sink in he then thought "ooooooh this can't be good".
Click to expand...

I know he had 2 cars - I've mentioned them several times. My query was more along the lines of why didn't they take both during the first search.

Also, the mention of the police seizing 'several' cars on the Sunday seems to mean the only other 2 mentioned anywhere, the blue xr6 that he was pulled over in and RR's silver vehicle as it seems the white car was obtained by the police on Saturday, with the drugs. Two cars is not several.
 
Adding in a reminder that we don't allow name calling.

For all of those named in the case, you can either use their full names or initials...no name calling thanks.
 
sleepinoz said:
I know he had 2 cars - I've mentioned them several times. My query was more along the lines of why didn't they take both during the first search
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I don't know, but I can offer the two most likely reasons.

1. They were targeting the vehicle that they thought the deceased was transported in, and they were sure of this from the CCTV footage. Remember that the purpose of this search is probably to find evidence supporting the warrant application.

2. Police have no right to enter and seize vehicles from private property. Note that a carpark in a block of strata titled units (such as McNamaras) does not fall into this 'private property' classification as it is a road related area for the purposes of the road rules, and hence they can search and seize vehicles there. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/s13.html

So it may have simply had to do with where the car was parked. That's why they need a warrant for Rogerson's car, but (interestingly) didn't end up needing one for either of McNamaras cars. His xr6 because it was stopped by them on a road, his wagon because it was taken from a vehicular trafficable car park.
 
... another story on Rogerson - just saving the link here.

ABC News Report

Sydney's underworld isn't glamorous: it's cruel

Roger Rogerson spoke to Julia Baird on ABC Sunday Profile in 2006. He justified his stand-up show with a confessed killer:

Well look I talk about what I did and how we kept the streets clean and look all I say, 'I stand on my record'. Okay now what I did or didn't do or what you think I did or you think I didn't do, my record I say proves that how we did things back in my day kept the streets clean. Now that's all we're interested in.
Click to expand...

.
 
saint_jude said:
I don't know, but I can offer the two most likely reasons.

1. They were targeting the vehicle that they thought the deceased was transported in, and they were sure of this from the CCTV footage. Remember that the purpose of this search is probably to find evidence supporting the warrant application.

2. Police have no right to enter and seize vehicles from private property. Note that a carpark in a block of strata titled units (such as MacNamaras) does not fall into this 'private property' classification as it is a road related area for the purposes of the road rules, and hence they can search and seize vehicles there. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/s13.html

So it may have simply had to do with where the car was parked. That's why they need a warrant for Rogerson's car, but (interestingly) didn't end up needing one for either of MacNamaras cars. His xr6 because it was stopped by them on a road, his wagon because it was taken from a vehicular trafficable car park.
Click to expand...
You're in your element here SJ, Welcome! Do you have a theory on if this was a planned hit or not?
 
saint_jude said:
I don't know, but I can offer the two most likely reasons.

1. They were targeting the vehicle that they thought the deceased was transported in, and they were sure of this from the CCTV footage. Remember that the purpose of this search is probably to find evidence supporting the warrant application.

2. Police have no right to enter and seize vehicles from private property. Note that a carpark in a block of strata titled units (such as MacNamaras) does not fall into this 'private property' classification as it is a road related area for the purposes of the road rules, and hence they can search and seize vehicles there. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/s13.html

So it may have simply had to do with where the car was parked. That's why they need a warrant for Rogerson's car, but (interestingly) didn't end up needing one for either of MacNamaras cars. His xr6 because it was stopped by them on a road, his wagon because it was taken from a vehicular trafficable car park.
Click to expand...

I understand what your saying, but if they had the CCTV footage that gave them the info that led them to GM, and they would have known it was his car, and would also know how many vehicles were registered in his name, they would have had enough info to execute a warrant for his premises and property.

Seems they didn't or MSM are once again mixing up the facts! which they have on several occasions in this case.
 
Saint Jude - I have this feeling that you have a history of Law Enforcement - If so, it would really be appreciated if you have yourself verified as an expert.

If I'm wrong, my apologies - if you need the info on how to be verified, let us know and we will point you in the right direction.
 
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