Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Thinking outside the box.........Honey I have a surprise for you. Covers her face to add to the excitement and prevents her from seeing the truth and leads her down to the plywood laying on the ground , reaches the spot where the knife is, has her turn and face the knife and tells her here is your surprise. And pushes her onto the knife and holds her there until she is dead...Though the knife is gone from being destroyed. Do they still have her T shirt she was wearing on the day of her death?.........If she was pushed from behind onto the knife there may be some skin cells from the fingers, especially the finger tips that were left behind from being pushed and held onto the knife.

 

[FigTree]

It's just so *blinking* frustrating that the sum total result of this inquest is that, while admissions were made that *some* police royally effed the case up, and Paul Cook lied out his back teeth about a bunch of stuff and his story doesn't quite add up in places, and his behaviour is here and there very suspicious, despite all of that, Jenny's death is likely never going to be investigated as a murder *because* while the finding was "undetermined" it was deemed so NOT because the coroner particularly thought it was a homicide, but mainly due to police bungling. For which not ONE person saw consequences. If you don't count promotion.

I am 100% behind the Pullen family's quest for the truth here. I do not think Jenny died by her own hand.

And I think a whole bunch of people wish this case would quietly drop off the map.

It's my intention to do my level best to severely disappoint one of the above. Guess which one.


PS: when it comes to it, unless a lot of people uncover their well-covered asses, the ONLY person who'll get named as an "official" suspect in this case is Jenny herself. Because the State Coroner -can't- accuse anyone, and the police obviously -won't- be doing so. And hence, we can't talk about things that need talking about, and this sucks. However, I think we can say quite a lot without actually breaching TOS. Watch me try. Or you know, get yelled at a lot.

I don't often get truly angry about a case, but this one? Yeah, I am hopping mad.

I understand your feelings exactly regarding this case.
I sat and thought about what can be done from here on.
I also don't believe that a case like Jenny's exist in isolation.
It is though exceptional. The cause of her death is unprecedented.
There are more of them out here which - there must be.
A collective of cases like this might be a start.

The fact that Jenny's parents and friends are on to it is a very good thing.
They have been living with this frustration and anger - trying to get Jenny's voice heard, since her death.
Though I wonder if there is any other avenue they can now take - except to get media attention.
A legal strategy would be nice to help family follow-up the loose ends of the Inquest.
Pressure to follow through with any recommendations made.
A legal representative or team of them - to help this family stand strong and be able to apply pressure to the system.

The Public Demand Answers.

 

[FigTree]

Reposting this link

July 14 2014

Police yet to act on bungled 'suicide' investigation

http://www.smh.com.au/national/poli...led-suicide-investigation-20140718-zufak.html

The counsel representing the deceased family in the inquest, Marjorie Pagani, said she had been shocked at the way the investigation was conducted.
"I was appalled by the shoddiness of the investigation and what appeared to be total disregard for the proper coronial and police process and this has resulted in primary and most significant evidence having been destroyed under police authority, despite an ongoing inquest,'' she said.
"The impact on the entire family was tragic. They felt as though they have been done a severe injustice because of police processes and they will probably never forgive the people responsible.''

 

[Ausgirl]

I so rarely cheer for the media these days, but what a good job they're doing keeping Jenny's story in the public eye. I do think this is an avenue for action, and a good one in this case because I think 99% of Aussies would be horrified at how this went down, and public outrage can be a powerful thing. I can't believe I didn't hear about this case before -- I bet there'll be a lot people saying the same thing as time goes by and more stories appear.

Also it means those responsible, both for her death and for the bungling, can't just slide quietly on with their lives as if nothing happened.

I also think this case is a good one, for true crime/investigative crime shows. I wonder if her parents have considered contacting some of those.

 

[BJsleuth]

Thinking outside the box.........Honey I have a surprise for you. Covers her face to add to the excitement and prevents her from seeing the truth and leads her down to the plywood laying on the ground , reaches the spot where the knife is, has her turn and face the knife and tells her here is your surprise. And pushes her onto the knife and holds her there until she is dead...Though the knife is gone from being destroyed. Do they still have her T shirt she was wearing on the day of her death?.........If she was pushed from behind onto the knife there may be some skin cells from the fingers, especially the finger tips that were left behind from being pushed and held onto the knife.

I had similar thoughts. It's completely plausible.

I think that given PC's occupation that it should have been more fully investigated as it could have been a former inmate seeking revenge on him.

 

[doradodds]

Lots of people get put away without a weapon on evidence - heck, some get sentenced even without a body.

I do feel there's a case here. If only some proper, non-corrupt cops would take it up...

As for the non-identified girlfriend (NFIP):

The NIFP told Ms Ronan that she was spending a lot of time with Mr Cook subsequent to Ms Cook’s death and that he told her that he could give her a better life than her current partner. However, a few months after Ms Cook’s death the NIFP told Ms Ronan that Mr Cook was stalking her and would not leave her alone. Shortly after that Ms Ronan heard that Mr Cook had moved to Brisbane

-- Apparently he got quite nasty and abusive with her. I wonder if she's the one who moved in with him a few months after Jenny died?

Paul Cook - in early April 2009, advertised for a person to share the house with him to help with the rent/mortgage.

NIFP is a married woman who had her name suppressed because of her extra-marital activities. She is also the woman involved in being discovered in a compromising position with another prison guard (not PC) in a car at the prison whilst on duty. After Jenny died PC persued her romantically - it is claimed she became involved with him sexually, he offered her a better life than her current partner but she was not interested (my guess she was/is just a player) and PC kept persuing her to her annoyance. But he did move on.

Lastly - are you suggesting there was some corruption in the police handling of this case. I ask only because corruption is a very serious accusation Corruption is so very different from incompetence. In an attempt to get to the truth surely we must be diligent in keeping what we say and write real and accurate.

 

[Ausgirl]

What I am suggesting is that there ought to be an investigation into precisely why any officer would so thoroughly bungle not just one element of this case, but several. And then lie to the Coroner's Inquiry on top of it. I don't believe Osborn is a stupid woman, nor a pathologically careless one, and incompetence to that level seems out of keeping.

I'm not "accusing" anyone of anything. I am saying, unapologetically, that there needs to be an extremely thorough investigation of both the case and the actions of the police, with corruption as one among potential factors that needs to be examined. Even if only to eliminate it.

If you'd been reading along with the thread, you'd see that which woman was when had already been sorted and the information rendered quite "real and accurate" thank you.. Posts were removed, however, as we cannot sleuth those parties due to terms of service breach where a person has not yet been named a suspect or person of interest.

Trust me, the truth is all I want to see here.

 

[doradodds]

Ausgirl. I must have missed something. I thought all that (police "bungling") had been covered by the inquest and recommendations were made by the coroner to the Commisioner of Police to consider: 1. Whether any action should be taken in relation to Detective Sergeant
Osborn’s non-compliance with the Operational Procedures Manual of the Queensland Police Service; and, 2. Whether any action should be taken in relation to the inadequacy of the police investigation into the death of Jenny Lee Cook.

So much is being made about the knife being destroyed. It was checked for DNA and the result was that the only DNA found belonged to Jenny Cook. It was not tested for finger prints because such would have had to be done after all DNA testing was complete lest it destroyed DNA testing viability. The knife was subsequently destroyed. However - the only prints police would find from finger-printing the knife would belong to Jenny (prove she handled the knife), Paul (proving he handled the knife - but he (and Jenny)owned the knife so his prints on it would prove nothing or lastly - a third or fourth party - proving someone else had handled the knife. There was no evidence of any disturbance to suggest someone had broken in or the presence of a third party being at the residence that day.

Has Paul Cook been officially named a suspect in the death of Jenny? Did the coroner recommend he be further investigated? Did the coroner not say that the only conclusion with all the evidence available was Jenny committed suicide?

What evidence is there to back up the written claim that Paul Cook moved his lover in soon after Jenny's death? Who is this "lover"? It is incorrect to state he sold his house in April 2009. That house was not listed for sale until late May 2009 - it was contracted as sold around 30th May and the sale was settled on the 30 June 2009.

 

[Ausgirl]

And here lies the problem -- how in the heck would anyone know what evidence was or wasn't there? It's not like the place was searched thoroughly or officers informed of what pertinent things to look for. And with the case 'closed' as a suicide within 24 hrs, no-one had call to thoroughly investigate the several possible motives for murder that are apparent.

There's been several cases of staged suicides that have ended up being revealed as homicides in the past few years, through diligent police work. Some more cleverly staged than others. You may find cause to believe this case was simply a suicide and bless, we're all free to see things the way we like, but I see reason - good reason, based on sound information and fact - to believe this very well could have been a homicide.

 

[Ausgirl]

Just to add, dna on the knife could be easily circumvented by putting on a pair of rubber gloves. It's not like it hasn't been done before.

 

[doradodds]

I am keeping an open mind. I do not "know" what happened to Jenny but after carefully reading all the evidence I have been able to find I can find none that would point to anything other than suicide. I need to add that I have had extensive experience with suicide, its aftermath and the denial and blame from those left behind. I have also experienced and noted the devastating effects on innocent people coming from the irrational-thinking side of people intent on "witch-hunting" or even viewing such cases as entertainment. Because of all this I am very very careful to ensure I at lease afford the presumption of innocence to all people unless or until some evidence to the contrary is available. I also get very very annoyed and angry when I witness malicious gossip spread where the spreaders have not bothered to check the accuracy of what they spread. I like the moral of doing unto others as I would have done unto me. This is why I loath to read comments here such that PC "moved his lover in soon after Jenny died" because there is no evidence he had a lover, no evidence he moved anyone in so to speak BUT there is in fact evidence to the contrary. What if the woman living there when he sold the house was a tenant - how insulting to both PC and her is it to suggest she was his lover.

 

[MsAnais]

Paul Cook - in early April 2009, advertised for a person to share the house with him to help with the rent/mortgage.

NIFP is a married woman who had her name suppressed because of her extra-marital activities. She is also the woman involved in being discovered in a compromising position with another prison guard (not PC) in a car at the prison whilst on duty. After Jenny died PC persued her romantically - it is claimed she became involved with him sexually, he offered her a better life than her current partner but she was not interested (my guess she was/is just a player) and PC kept persuing her to her annoyance. But he did move on.

Lastly - are you suggesting there was some corruption in the police handling of this case. I ask only because corruption is a very serious accusation Corruption is so very different from incompetence. In an attempt to get to the truth surely we must be diligent in keeping what we say and write real and accurate.

bbm.

Hi doradodds :seeya:

I've bolded that last sentence you wrote as indeed, we are all here to get to truth. And on WS that involves speculation and looking at all angles of a case. And one such angle in this case is definitely the question of police corruption IMO. At first glance, that's precisely what it looks like to me.

But I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong.

Although if it's not corruption, then Osborn is seriously, dangerously inept and should never have graduated from the police academy, let alone held any position of responsibility.

JMO

 

[doradodds]

Just to add, dna on the knife could be easily circumvented by putting on a pair of rubber gloves. It's not like it hasn't been done before.

therefore it would not matter that the knife is destroyed and not fingerprint evidence was collected - if there was someone other than Jenny involved and they wore gloves there would be no fingerprints.

 

[MsAnais]

therefore it would not matter that the knife is destroyed and not fingerprint evidence was collected - if there was someone other than Jenny involved and they wore gloves there would be no fingerprints.

It just looked very suspicious that a key piece of evidence was so quickly destroyed - fingerprints or no fingerprints.

That is indeed one of the factors that make it look like a cover up to me - a rush to destroy the murder weapon stands out as a red flag imo.

 

[doradodds]

Absolutely nothing wrong with speculating as long as that is stated what one is doing. It is the blatant inaccuracies and downright reporting of such as fact that I object to as it is not helpful in getting to the truth.

 

[MsAnais]

I am keeping an open mind. I do not "know" what happened to Jenny but after carefully reading all the evidence I have been able to find I can find none that would point to anything other than suicide. I need to add that I have had extensive experience with suicide, its aftermath and the denial and blame from those left behind. I have also experienced and noted the devastating effects on innocent people coming from the irrational-thinking side of people intent on "witch-hunting" or even viewing such cases as entertainment. Because of all this I am very very careful to ensure I at lease afford the presumption of innocence to all people unless or until some evidence to the contrary is available. I also get very very annoyed and angry when I witness malicious gossip spread where the spreaders have not bothered to check the accuracy of what they spread. I like the moral of doing unto others as I would have done unto me. This is why I loath to read comments here such that PC "moved his lover in soon after Jenny died" because there is no evidence he had a lover, no evidence he moved anyone in so to speak BUT there is in fact evidence to the contrary. What if the woman living there when he sold the house was a tenant - how insulting to both PC and her is it to suggest she was his lover.

Thanks for explaining your position. It's helpful in understanding where you're coming from.

I too have had extensive experience with suicide over many years, in a professional capacity. And that's precisely why this case stood out to me - it's just such an unlikely method of suicide for a woman to pick imo. And I've since done some research about this that confirms my first thoughts about it. I'm sorry, but I will never believe this is suicide. I do, however, agree that we don't know who killed Jenny yet.

Hopefully we all find out.

 

[Ausgirl]

I am keeping an open mind. I do not "know" what happened to Jenny but after carefully reading all the evidence I have been able to find I can find none that would point to anything other than suicide.

Jenny's hand was rotated 180 degrees postmortem, this fact was noted - perhaps you missed it. Dead people do not rotate their own hands. So another person was indeed present some time after Jenny died, but prior to her body entering full rigor. This fact alone is enough to warrant a possibility of homicide.

I need to add that I have had extensive experience with suicide, its aftermath and the denial and blame from those left behind. I have also experienced and noted the devastating effects on innocent people coming from the irrational-thinking side of people intent on "witch-hunting" or even viewing such cases as entertainment.

You are not alone, there. And as someone who has also experienced all this, I still see reason to suspect homicide. Also, personal attacks don't make your point any more valid.

I also get very very annoyed and angry when I witness malicious gossip spread where the spreaders have not bothered to check the accuracy of what they spread. I like the moral of doing unto others as I would have done unto me. This is why I loath to read comments here such that PC "moved his lover in soon after Jenny died" because there is no evidence he had a lover, no evidence he moved anyone in so to speak BUT there is in fact evidence to the contrary. What if the woman living there when he sold the house was a tenant - how insulting to both PC and her is it to suggest she was his lover.

Perhaps you also missed my response to the 'moved in' issue above? Please do read it. And then read again what I said about personal attacks.

 

[Oddsocks]

I found his in regards to new girlfriend.
The NIFP said that she spent more time with Mr Cook after the death; she said to help him through that time. Later she got the feeling that Mr Cook wanted a relationship with her and for her to end her then current relationship but she was not interested. He became short and aggressive and hostile. She then ceased communication with him and heard from him about a year later when he told her he had a new girlfriend who was a hairdresser. She said that Mr Cook told her that Ms Cook could not have children because of her injury and that she was very distressed by that.



Honestly I think the most damning things in this case pointing towards murder are the many inconsistencies stories told by the husband

 

[doradodds]

See these are the words that I do not find helpful: "rush to destroy the murder weapon", "evidence so quickly destroyed"

These are statements made-up then used to "prove" what they have been made up to prove.

First I ask: Where is there evidence of "rush" -
Second I ask: where is the evidence of a murder to justify calling the knife a murder weapon

What is the evidence to suggest a cover-up other than that claimed "rush to destroy" and "murder weapon"? What would the motive for a cover-up be?

The destroying of the knife was incompetence at worst - incompetence is the only thing I can see that the police would be eager to cover up - the destroying of the knife WAS the incompetence - so it is irrational to claim it was destroyed to cover up it being destroyed.

 

[SouthAussie]

Ausgirl, I feel your frustration with this case.

I have just read the inquest findings, and I have three questions.

1. Does DS Osborn still have a job? The rank of DS implies some higher level of police responsibility to me, which this person is evidently not capable of carrying out imo

2. Does/did DS Osborn have any kind of friendship, relationship, acquaintance with Mr Cook, either inside or outside of work?

3. Has Jenny's family pursued the matter with the Commissioner directly - apart from the recommendation in the inquest which may not have been handled by him directly? The Commissioner is the patron of the Queensland Homicide Victims' Support Group ... http://qhvsg.org.au/ .... and as such should hold some moral and ethical responsibility to be entirely supportive of family efforts, particularly with the Coronial finding in this matter. The Coroner has left an open finding, and as such her recommendations should be followed and pursued imo.

"I am unable to determine whether Ms Cook’s death was the result of suicide and that aspect of the finding must remain open."
http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf