GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

[The Unfortunate Ms M]

What we can do

To keep the focus away from 'what women can do to keep themselves safe' and on "what (good) men can do to make women feel safe'

here is a very good, very useful blog post on that http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/g...pproaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

I would really love for the men in my life, and the men who aren't in my life, to read it

 

[Public_Hysteria]

I've come here a couple of times today, trying to find the right words to express how I feel, but this is a case where words have completely escaped me. There is an undeniable sadness all through the country today, it's touching how much people have become so emotionally involved in this case.

I send my most heartfelt sympathies to her family, friends, and colleagues. May they find the strength to carry on during this dark and trying time. Jill was a beautiful soul, the world has indeed suffered a great loss. May she rest in peace.

ETA: A big thank you to the Vic police. They did an absolutely outstanding job on this case.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Well, I wont be posting anymore on this case. RIP Jill and congrats Victorian Police for getting him before the courts (again) sorry, couldn't help it.

:seeya:

 

[Ambien]

I've spoken to men who are offended when women (strangers) don't trust them. Maybe they are both walking down a street at night and the woman crosses the road to avoid him. Or they're alone in a train carriage and she changes carriages.

They have been upset that women were insinuating they are rapists.

So if you want women to act on their instincts - to OVERreact, be safe rather than sorry, please try not to be offended by this behaviour. It isn't personal. It isn't about you.

My husband said that last night and it makes him sad that people might be scared of him, obviously I don't think he looks scary but these days you just never know and people are just being cautious. I tell him not to take it to heart.

 

[coops]

I think everyone, male and female, should read The Gift of Fear. My girlfriend read it recently and has found herself in a few situations when she's used what she's learned.

The basic premise is that you should listen to your instincts, they're usually right. And if they're wrong, what's the trade-off? Offending someone by moving away from them or asking someone else for help is the worst that can happen if you're wrong. If you're right...well we know what the worst that could happen is.

Please do not read this as blaming Jill for not listening to her instincts. It might have been too late even if she did.

My anger has eased since my earlier anger laden post directed at the man who has been arrested (I refuse to use his name). If you have the means, support the Victorian Police - today is Blue Ribbon Day.

http://www.remember.org.au/

I bought this book on my kindle after Allison Baden Clay went missing and am yet to start reading it. I'll start reading it ASAP after what's happened to poor Jill.

 

[The Unfortunate Ms M]

I know I already posted this but it's really worth watching

"ABC Radio host Jon Faine holds back tears as he talks on- air about the death of his colleague Jill Meagher"
http://video.dailytelegraph.com.au/2284592568/ABC-Presenters-onair-tribute-to-Jill

It's true and heartfelt and ... this is all so sad

 

[Mystique75]

I did not get much done today at work with the news about Jill. In hindsight, I really wish I would not have seen the cctv footage because it makes me so sad and angry and replays in my head. SO CLOSE to her stupid house. I think ALL of us can relate to her on any given level (I wear shoes like hers, I have a sister that resembles her, and have a daughter) and I've just been heartbroken all day. I am however, so happy that the footage existed and I'm quite proud of law enforcement for such a quick arrest.

I'm so sorry to Jill, her family, and friends. And the reportedly 4 innocent children who have a father that has a lot coming to him.

Thank you, you have just voiced exactly how I am feeling. I can't get the CCTV footage out of my mind and I won't be watching it again. To think that I made casual observations of my own as well... if only I'd known what was happening, though rather than regret it I'll focus on what I've learned. I certainly will be thinking twice before commenting on what I see.

Dear Jill, I'm so sorry. All I could think of this morning was that I'm so, so sorry. To Jill, her husband, her family, the colleague who offered to take her home and now the 4 children. It's hit me pretty hard as well, so I feel for the other members on here and elsewhere who are hurting too. Have been wondering what to write or say and haven't found any appropriate words and doubt I ever will, just putting it out there to others who understand.

BUT I'm also grateful for the footage, that Jill was found and can now be with her family. How sad that this should be the better of possible outcomes.

Having just noticed the plea from Vic Police about refraining from potentially prejudicial public comment, I'm in no doubt as to how important it is that this advice is followed! Hoping people take note.

 

[Brunswick_Kiwi]

I've spoken to men who are offended when women (strangers) don't trust them. Maybe they are both walking down a street at night and the woman crosses the road to avoid him. Or they're alone in a train carriage and she changes carriages.

They have been upset that women were insinuating they are rapists.

So if you want women to act on their instincts - to OVERreact, be safe rather than sorry, please try not to be offended by this behaviour. It isn't personal. It isn't about you.

I think being offended is also fair - you can't tell someone not to be upset. I would be upset if I was on a plane and moved seats when I was next to a child because of the implied risk. The offence or anger should generally be directed at the criminals that have caused it though. Having said that, there's a world of difference between a girl being frightened walking home alone and the stupid seat policy on some airlines.

 

[ozazure]

I think people were suspicious of TM - apart from the statistical probability 0 because they were so horrified by the idea of accidentally consoling Jill's murderer - most people are more worried about looking like a sucker than they are of being too cynical.

I certainly think it goes to show that statement analyses are not particularly accurate.

There are people on WS who didn't just have misgivings about TM - but were 100% certain based on that interview that it was him, no further discussion needed.

I can see why you'd want to believe you can tell if someone's really a murderer just by talking to them, because then you'd feel a lot safer, but it's okay that we can't tell, and that we're inclined to trust people automatically. That's part of the whole 'being human' social animal thing, and that's what separates from, eg. Jill's killer.

I was confident in him, based on his emotion and the story seemed plausible, and it shook me when I thought for awhile I may have been off base when forensics returned to the home.

What shook me is that I am prepared to be on the fence and I'd say a lot of the time I can't tell, but when I am sure, like with Tom and Gerard Baden-Clay I felt one way strongly from the get go, I don't want one of those times to be wrong because that's an important life skill, for keeping myself and my kids safe.

I felt a punch in the gut when I read she was found north/west which is what I predicted a few days ago, where she would be if she wasn't in the immediate vicinity. No special skills required there, just living in the same council as Brunswick, knowing where bodies have been found in the past from crimes this side of town, and bringing it right home that this happened here where I know so well. Bung Siriboon from Boronia ... I have no internal map of what might have happened to that girl. And so grateful that the leads were there for Jill from the very start so that she was recovered and her alleged murderer apprehended. Poor Bung disappeared with no cctv and without the same response by the public and her story may never come to light and justice may go unanswered. A 13 year old school girl walking to school.

 

[fruity]

What we can do

To keep the focus away from 'what women can do to keep themselves safe' and on "what (good) men can do to make women feel safe'

here is a very good, very useful blog post on that http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/g...pproaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

I would really love for the men in my life, and the men who aren't in my life, to read it

This is fantastic. I've read it before, but it's just as good the second time.

 

[knowledgethirsty]

http://twitter.com/i/#!/search/?q=jill+meagher&src=typd

committal hearing set for January 18th

 

[GutFeeling!]

:floorlaugh:

WOW....big chances he read here then as well......ok ok yes I am off now

:floorlaugh:

No no don't go :floorlaugh:

 

[Lotsa]

"Jill Meagher was mentioned on social media, both Twitter and Facebook, every 11 seconds early this morning. And the CCTV footage which showed her walking on Sydney Road on the morning she disappeared was shared on the same platforms about 7500 times within two hours"

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...dia-worry-in-meagher-case-20120928-26pe4.html

 

[catswhiskers]

I think children and women still need to be taught and reminded to trust their instincts.

As a little girl growing up in Queensland in the 60s, there were a couple of cases that really hit home with families - they certainly made my parents drill the "no talking to strangers" bit with me. A couple of tiny girls in Cairns went missing on their way to school, plus another young teen disappeared in Mackay. I remember us all watching the news fearfully every night. One day I was sitting on the back step of a cafe my parents owned, when a fellow parked his car nearby and commented that I must have been hot sitting there, and why didn't I come and sit in the shade by his car. I politely said no thanks and went inside and told my parents. In that short space of time the car disappeared. Police were called and I remember describing the man and his car, and nothing further happened to my knowledge.

As an adult I have imagined that this could have indeed been something quite sinister that I avoided - I could see no other reason for a strange man to have tried to lure me closer like that.


Having said that, I shudder at the number of foolish choices I made as a young woman - usually while tipsy Nothing bad happened to me, but boy our instincts are definitely impaired while under the influence.

I'm a parent and have been a teacher of young children for many years, and make a point of discussing matters of personal safety with my kids and students whenever the topic arises.

 

[ozazure]

I think children and women still need to be taught and reminded to trust their instincts.

As a little girl growing up in Queensland in the 60s, there were a couple of cases that really hit home with families - they certainly made my parents drill the "no talking to strangers" bit with me. A couple of tiny girls in Cairns went missing on their way to school, plus another young teen disappeared in Mackay. I remember us all watching the news fearfully every night. One day I was sitting on the back step of a cafe my parents owned, when a fellow parked his car nearby and commented that I must have been hot sitting there, and why didn't I come and sit in the shade by his car. I politely said no thanks and went inside and told my parents. In that short space of time the car disappeared. Police were called and I remember describing the man and his car, and nothing further happened to my knowledge.

As an adult I have imagined that this could have indeed been something quite sinister that I avoided - I could see no other reason for a strange man to have tried to lure me closer like that.


Having said that, I shudder at the number of foolish choices I made as a young woman - usually while tipsy Nothing bad happened to me, but boy our instincts are definitely impaired while under the influence.

I'm a parent and have been a teacher of young children for many years, and make a point of discussing matters of personal safety with my kids and students whenever the topic arises.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post and could have rewritten it with my own details. For me, I think it was Mr Cruel who was abducting and raping girls my age in the late 80's and earl 90's. Prue Bird's missing posters plastered all over the train station I used. I was on Hinch as an 11yo and the next morning, one rare morning I was left alone in the house for 30 mins before I was to go to school, because my mum was in hospital and my dad had left for work, I got a dirty phone call from someone who had seen me on tv and looked up my phone number in the telephone book. He had my address ffs!

We are very lucky if we can somehow live without this ugliness in our day to day lives, some people live with fear and abuse and the threat of death ever present. I have had discussions with a friend dismissing the reality of her child being assaulted or abducted while out alone ... I respect her right to weigh the odds but to dismiss the threat and not address it as a potential scenario in the decision making or preparation of her child makes me feel sick in my stomach. Too many of us have stories which could have been the start of a serious crime. But I am preaching to the choir here, most people accept the reality who read here.

 

[Thinking]

Tom is finding out from prosecutors about what he may hear, it has been delayed while this is done.

that poor man and his family - my heart aches for him (no link sorry it was in the news bulletin on 3AW)

Am in tears after seeing Gillian's uncle speak in that article. Tom is going to need all his inner strength to be able to face this guy in court. I can't even imagine how it would feel for him. It would be the ultimate test of self control.

 

[fruity]

Is it still okay to link to MSM? He has appeared in court, but there's not much to report. He will reappear in court for a committal mention on January 18.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8539830/man-charged-with-meaghers-murder

News sites here are now showing the blurred photo from the alleged killer's deleted FB page.

 

[fruity]

JILL Meagher's husband Tom has spoken outside Melbourne Magistrates' Court following the filing hearing for the man accused of her murder.

Speaking outside the hearing today, Mr Meagher said: "I’ve been really humbled by the support of the Australian public and the tireless efforts of the police and all the friends and family that have put their lives on hold to help us out.

"While I appreciate all the support I just would like to mention that negative comments on social media may hurt (the) legal proceedings.

"Please be mindful of that. And I would also like to say if the media could respect the privacy of the Meaghers ... at this time that would be brilliant. Thank you.”

Mr Meagher and Ms Meagher's brother Michael McKeon held hands in court as the Jill’s accused killer appeared briefly in court.


The pair were earlier given a private briefing before the hearing.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...f-murder-hearing/story-e6frf7kx-1226482868669

 

[they'll get you]

Originally Posted by they'll get you
I'd like to apologise to Jill's husband for jumping the gun in the early stages. You must have been going though a living hell & didn't need the likes of us sleuther blaming you.


Dont feel bad, Im sure he would be the first to understand...it usually is the spouse...this time it was someone elses........

Thanx Olli, I understand where you are coming from. Many of us are hurting and I for one am feeling badly for jumped the gun in pointing the finger. Sometimes we sluethers are correct with our feelings (GBC). You were consoling my hurt by your answer & I found it helpful. Thanx :seeya:

 

[andalso]

Jill is not here...it is horrifically sad. Sad for her family, and friends, and sad for me...a continent away and someone she never knew. It is not just a sad day in websleuthland, it is a sad day in the world.
I was at work this afternoon/evening and just now this is really sinking in, now that I am home. Disgusted.