Many old European families migrated to other countries, and brought their values of 'family first' against all others as part of their culture. This has been a great strength, but it is also a weakness when a son commits a crime, has to account before the Law, but the family act to protect their family member, disregard and degrade the process of Law, do not accept responsibility and place 'blame' outside - even on the victim. They become 'enablers' and 'partners in crime'. IMHO.
Found Deceased Australia - Karen Chetcuti, 49, Whorouly, Vic, 12 Jan 2016 *Arrest*
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Many old European families migrated to other countries, and brought their values of 'family first' against all others as part of their culture. This has been a great strength, but it is also a weakness when a son commits a crime, has to account before the Law, but the family act to protect their family member, disregard and degrade the process of Law, do not accept responsibility and place 'blame' outside - even on the victim. They become 'enablers' and 'partners in crime'. IMHO.
BBM. and there it is! The assessors have picked up his attitude towards women, but gloss over it to create an illusion to the judge/magistrate that this can be 'altered'.
A nice written theoretical piece. Top marks for producing a report. However, the concepts within are woefully underdeveloped in their implications for appropriate treatment and supervision of the offender. IMHO.
What about the concept of deep, underlying psychosexual pathology and it's potentially grave implications for the treatment of women?
This pathology contributes to such horrific crimes against women.
BBM.Well said Trooper!
Fuskier.... it staggers me that this was the promoted qualified professional medical outcome projected by two psychatrists employed by the defence, paid for by the family, which , naturally had to have some bearing on the conclusions they would reach!... it still infuriates me, and I am particularly interested, if, and when this trial goes on, say, till the sentencing stage, when all the creepiest characters come out giving 'references' about the unfortunate creature in the dock, will the Bill and Ben of the psychiatric world again appear with a 'new version' of their 'eminent opinion'?
I can't imagine what their 'new' diagnosis could possibly produce.. words fail me.
I had expected him to enter a plea before the committal hearing began!.., one of Guilty. Considering (a) the circumstances and evidence against him and ( b) his weak defence ( someone else did it ) and his previous experiences with the court.
but no!.. nope.. no such of a thing. This means that every day this hearing proceeds, and assuming it goes to trial, where he maintains his Not Guilty is another 2 months he gets added onto his sentence, and the less discount he is accredited with for saving court time and money.
Had he pleaded Guilty yesterday, the thing would have gone straight to the sentencing component.
I long to see a pic of him. I wouldn't be surprised if he now looks a lot better, because I think he prefers prison.. He has status there, and long term friends inside.. .. men who he can fantasise with....
KG1
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Tim Watson Munro is not the cleanest skin - look him up - cocaine connections in the early 2000's!
KG1
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This murder, including torture and burning alive falls into the worst category of murder - premeditated also. The maximum sentence available will be life sentence without parole - never to be released. However, in my view, if ever there was a death penalty case, this is it. I have always been against the death penalty, but there are some horrific crimes that are way beyond keeping the perpetrator alive. I am very conflicted now.
FYI
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4516676/murder-victim-was-burned-alive/?cs=11
Whorouly couple James and Lorraine Neery were at the hotel the night Ms Chetcuti Verbunt disappeared and said they clearly saw a white Holden Commodore leave her home at 9.30pm and drive around the corner into Cardamone’s driveway...
Kayla Hawkins was driving home to Wangaratta from work in Myrtleford about 10pm on January 12 last year when she saw a red Citroen she would later read belonged to Ms Chetcuti Verbunt.
She called Crime Stoppers to report seeing the car about 15 kilometres out of Myrtleford when it took the corner too fast from Whorouly Road onto Great Alpine Road, veering onto the wrong side...
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4516676/murder-victim-was-burned-alive/?cs=11
Whorouly couple James and Lorraine Neery were at the hotel the night Ms Chetcuti Verbunt disappeared and said they clearly saw a white Holden Commodore leave her home at 9.30pm and drive around the corner into Cardamone’s driveway...
Kayla Hawkins was driving home to Wangaratta from work in Myrtleford about 10pm on January 12 last year when she saw a red Citroen she would later read belonged to Ms Chetcuti Verbunt.
She called Crime Stoppers to report seeing the car about 15 kilometres out of Myrtleford when it took the corner too fast from Whorouly Road onto Great Alpine Road, veering onto the wrong side...
if you are quietly having a cold beer on the balcony, or the verandah, really, of the pub, you can see directly up to Karen's driveway, its a long driveway off the road, so they would have seen the lights coming up her driveway for a about a minute, or 40 seconds, then turn left, go past the pub verandah and turn left again, .. now heading further east up to Myrtleford. .. but stopping at his ( and mum's ) place , just a bit up that road.. .. to collect more stuff, maybe have a cup of coffee. Mum was away, apparently.
He was in such a hurry, or so excited, that he forgot the gravel edge on the GA Road. ( this road goes to Myrtleford, Bright, and then on to Harrietville, and up to Mount Hotham, and Dinner Plain, then down a bit to Omeo, then to the coast at Lakes Entrance.. it's a spectacular and fabulous drive , unless there is a storm on Mr Hotham, then it is terrifying.)
https://dailylists.magistratesvic.com.au/EFAS/CaseCRI?CaseID=88118587
Wangaratta Magistrates’ Court
Case No G10175396
Hearing Date/Time Thursday, 9 March 2017 9:30 AM
Video Link Direction for this Hearing No
Prosecuting Agency Victoria Police - Uni-Sunshine
Informant Wallace, J (31318)
Prosecutor Representative Not Represented
Accused Cardamone, Michael
Accused Representative Not Represented
Hearing Type Committal
Wangaratta Magistrates’ Court
Case No G10175396
Hearing Date/Time Thursday, 9 March 2017 9:30 AM
Video Link Direction for this Hearing No
Prosecuting Agency Victoria Police - Uni-Sunshine
Informant Wallace, J (31318)
Prosecutor Representative Not Represented
Accused Cardamone, Michael
Accused Representative Not Represented
Hearing Type Committal
Maybe he'd been watching her since he came out on parole and went to Whorouly..
I don't think he had been living in Whorouly before prison, he went to prison for the aggravated rape from the tobacco farm at Myrtleford... He was a stranger , sort of, an unknown member of the family in Whorouly , arriving straight from prison as a parolee.
So perhaps he had been watching her, she must have seemed like a lucky gift to be living just across the paddock from his place!. he could see her lights, follow her movements, he could even tiptoe across the paddock in the dark, she'd never know, and watch from a closer point.
I now wonder if Karen did know about him,.. surely someone in the pub would have told her? but people try and give people a second chance , I suppose.. ...
I don't think he had been living in Whorouly before prison, he went to prison for the aggravated rape from the tobacco farm at Myrtleford... He was a stranger , sort of, an unknown member of the family in Whorouly , arriving straight from prison as a parolee.
So perhaps he had been watching her, she must have seemed like a lucky gift to be living just across the paddock from his place!. he could see her lights, follow her movements, he could even tiptoe across the paddock in the dark, she'd never know, and watch from a closer point.
I now wonder if Karen did know about him,.. surely someone in the pub would have told her? but people try and give people a second chance , I suppose.. ...
thanks for that, .. via video link? no.. so he is there in person, so to speak. . , why should he be having lovely day trips to Wangaratta?
'and said they clearly saw a white Holden Commodore leave her home at 9.30pm and drive around the corner into Cardamone’s driveway.
During the next hour, he allegedly forced her to ingest a small amount of animal tranquilisers as a sedative, then bound and gagged her, and caused fractures to her skull and ribs.'
If I have this right. . he assaults her in her home, then the tranquilizers.. then he drives her, alive, but somewhat inert, being bound and gagged, around to his place, where he spends the next hour torturing her.. . no one would have heard a thing, his sister next door away, mum away, no one else lives close by on that road, Hummdinger , help me, I think that's right.. or is there a home across the road?
Then he probably cuts thru the paddock across back to her place, and gets her car, brings it back to his place, puts her body in it, speeds off to Lake Buffalo, burns her.. ( she is still alive, just ) .. then drives her car back thru Myrtleford and leaves the car near the supermarket car park for a day or so, then takes her car up to the Reservoir, burns it, walks back a bit into Myrtleford, rings a taxi, goes home.
During the next hour, he allegedly forced her to ingest a small amount of animal tranquilisers as a sedative, then bound and gagged her, and caused fractures to her skull and ribs.'
If I have this right. . he assaults her in her home, then the tranquilizers.. then he drives her, alive, but somewhat inert, being bound and gagged, around to his place, where he spends the next hour torturing her.. . no one would have heard a thing, his sister next door away, mum away, no one else lives close by on that road, Hummdinger , help me, I think that's right.. or is there a home across the road?
Then he probably cuts thru the paddock across back to her place, and gets her car, brings it back to his place, puts her body in it, speeds off to Lake Buffalo, burns her.. ( she is still alive, just ) .. then drives her car back thru Myrtleford and leaves the car near the supermarket car park for a day or so, then takes her car up to the Reservoir, burns it, walks back a bit into Myrtleford, rings a taxi, goes home.
'Mr Silbert said the body was also tortured and injected with battery acid after death, and had spinal injuries allegedly caused by being run over by Cardamones car.
'No psychotic, personality or sexual disorder was diagnosed. ' says Dr Robson, and confirmed by Mr Watson - Munro. ....
well. It seems to me, an amateur, that if you are willing to invest the time in injecting battery acid into the body of a women you have just slowly murdered, that there must be some kind of disorder. ..
He must have been infected with some sort of psychosis while in prison.. but wait. .. Wasn't it in prison that Dr Robson said, he would receive counselling and therapy in preparation for his early release, whereupon unknown numbers of sturdy country women would be available to heal his unhappy relationship with women?..
These people, these court attracted psychiatrists really ought to be placed under a huge bond, held for 30 years, .. a sort of put your money where your mouth is, before being given any sort of credibility and weight in the matter of early release and parole of sexually deviant violent sexual offenders..
'No psychotic, personality or sexual disorder was diagnosed. ' says Dr Robson, and confirmed by Mr Watson - Munro. ....
well. It seems to me, an amateur, that if you are willing to invest the time in injecting battery acid into the body of a women you have just slowly murdered, that there must be some kind of disorder. ..
He must have been infected with some sort of psychosis while in prison.. but wait. .. Wasn't it in prison that Dr Robson said, he would receive counselling and therapy in preparation for his early release, whereupon unknown numbers of sturdy country women would be available to heal his unhappy relationship with women?..
These people, these court attracted psychiatrists really ought to be placed under a huge bond, held for 30 years, .. a sort of put your money where your mouth is, before being given any sort of credibility and weight in the matter of early release and parole of sexually deviant violent sexual offenders..
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/4516676/murder-victim-was-burned-alive/?cs=11
'Edward George was with Cardamone when the man allegedly set Ms Chetcuti Verbunt’s red Citroen alight, but he claims he thought he was helping settle a disagreement with a drug dealer, not cover up a murder.
The burnt out car was discovered in Halls Road, Myrtleford on January 14, two days after the missing woman was last seen.
Mr George said the alleged murderer would “not stop ringing” him at the time and agreed to go along as the car was destroyed.
Mr George admitted he was taking speed at the time and had sourced ice for Cardamone and originally lied to police about what he had seen because he was overwhelmed.'
it seems there is nothing the mind on ice will not do. Nothing is out of bounds, or impossible, or incomprehensible. To the brain on crystal meth there is no such concept as 'no' .... ..
and it's so cheap, too. sometimes, cheaper than smokes, if one is in the right place.. .
'Edward George was with Cardamone when the man allegedly set Ms Chetcuti Verbunt’s red Citroen alight, but he claims he thought he was helping settle a disagreement with a drug dealer, not cover up a murder.
The burnt out car was discovered in Halls Road, Myrtleford on January 14, two days after the missing woman was last seen.
Mr George said the alleged murderer would “not stop ringing” him at the time and agreed to go along as the car was destroyed.
Mr George admitted he was taking speed at the time and had sourced ice for Cardamone and originally lied to police about what he had seen because he was overwhelmed.'
it seems there is nothing the mind on ice will not do. Nothing is out of bounds, or impossible, or incomprehensible. To the brain on crystal meth there is no such concept as 'no' .... ..
and it's so cheap, too. sometimes, cheaper than smokes, if one is in the right place.. .
According to reports in MSN, this perpetrator has allegedly preyed upon his victim. He prepared himself with horse tranquilizer, methamphetamine, cuffs and duct tape. At 9.20pm at night, he entered the safety of her home, incapacitated her with horse tranquilizer , then beat and tortured her. At around 10.00pm he allegedly drove her deep into the bush at the base of Mt Buffalo where he doused her in petrol and set her alight, burning her flesh while she was alive. He then injected her with battery acid. He then ran the car forwards and backwards over her body to ensure she was dead. He left her body there in the middle of the night, deep in the bush. This was a premeditated, extremely violent, sadistic, slow murder of an innocent woman.
This prisoner was clearly a danger to the community. He was paroled back into the community on the basis of psych assessments.
IMO the assessors have not diagnosed the underlying pathology on this one. The reasons for this need to be examined and the assessors called to account for their assessment. They need to be brought before their professional organizations. My opinion only.
Nine News Melbourne‏Verified account @9NewsMelb 1m1 minute ago
Fresh, distressing evidence expected for the family of Karen Chetcuti Verbunt, as court hears more of her brutal killing last year. #9News
The Court will hear from six more witnesses and homicide detectives and crime scene investigators before rapping up this afternoon.
Fresh, distressing evidence expected for the family of Karen Chetcuti Verbunt, as court hears more of her brutal killing last year. #9News
The Court will hear from six more witnesses and homicide detectives and crime scene investigators before rapping up this afternoon.
laserdisc10
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Maybe it will be something along the lines of 'Society failed him ' (yep. i'm grinding my teeth to dust here)
Humdinger
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I couldn't agree more, I believe that he prefers prison, he gets to see his mate Leslie! Also in regards to pleading not guilty - he wants everyone to know what he did, he wants to 'be someone' in jail IMO if he pled guilty all of these details would not be released!