Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #1

[SouthAussie]

I wonder when Karen was last seen ... before she was 'last seen by her husband at about 10am'.

 

[Karinna]

(Quote)
She had just had a fight with her husband Borce and she needed to get some fresh air. They had been arguing about financial issues affecting the family business.

Since she walked out the door, nobody has heard from the woman.
http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...d/news-story/cde39d2fb8120ae9484ac5217c1a3edf

Perhaps the information about the argument regarding finances came from info. from KR's husband as per the article in link.

 

[DanInOz]

I wonder when Karen was last seen ... before she was 'last seen by her husband at about 10am'.

This so much!

 

[Karinna]

I wonder when Karen was last seen ... before she was 'last seen by her husband at about 10am'.

If Sarah lived at home perhaps she saw her mother in the morning? But i'm sure police have that information.

 

[SouthAussie]

I cannot see Karen taking off in a huff for a stomp along the river trail with her handbag. Maybe with her keys/phone, but not her handbag.
And I cannot see her taking off the other way, with her handbag, on foot. Why not take her car then?

These cars become a problem. Allison's car was left at home because she 'went for a walk', Novy's car was not left at home because she 'left' but it was found soon after dumped near a misleading railway station.

 

[SouthAussie]

If Sarah lived at home perhaps she saw her mother in the morning? But i'm sure police have that information.

I'm sure they do too. I wonder if it is only the lack of use of Karen's mobile and bank accounts that leads police to presume that she has been murdered? Well, out-of-character too. Is there more?

 

[Karinna]

I'm sure they do too. I wonder if it is only the lack of use of Karen's mobile and bank accounts that leads police to presume that she has been murdered? Well, out-of-character too. Is there more?

I wish i knew, but police investigating the case are probably privy to a lot more information than the public are. Apparently it was not out of character for Karen to go off for a walk like she did per what her daughter said, but her mum always came home, so that is out of character for her, and is probably why police think she met with foul play.

 

[Puggle]

I think it was just speculation that neighbours may have heard arguing.

Yeah as per Frogwells post ..... I haven't seen it reported that neighbours heard or saw anything.... so guessing speculation too.

 

[Puggle]

Good point about the argument being mentioned by Borce in case it was overheard.
I thought it was interesting that in the early days of searching Police were asking people to look out for Karen's distinctive hand bag and were searching for it on the riverbank and walking track. The emphasis on searching for the bag early on intrigues me.

Just my thoughts.... obviously they (police) focus alot early on the inner circle...but they can't (nor should they) shut out other possibilities...... a death by misadventure, such as robbery would be one line of enquiry..

Most in the area would be alarmed and report a body ......

But what if a member of the public saw something that just looked like discarded rubbish, junk....something tossed into the bushes or edge of the river....

There's lots a crap people throw out the back along the walking track....because they are lazy and dont give a shiate...small rubbish...sometimes larger items because they are too tight to spend money taking stuff to the tip.

The council normally have workers clean up around the area, but thats not on a daily basis.

So Im thinking it was just important to get the description of the bag out there ...... incase someone came across it...

 

[ScottKam]

I think the current state of play is that either the stepson or the husband killed Karen. We have very little information, and I think that is deliberately so. Despite the fact neighbours are scared to walk the riverside track, police have not come out saying they’re looking for a stranger outside of the family.

Borce had easiest access to his wife, because they lived together. He easily could have murdered her in the house and disposed of her body elsewhere via a car. The only problem here is where the daughter was at the time. She was obviously out somewhere.

The stepson clearly seems disturbed in a number of ways. He has anger at his dad and stepmum, so he definitely has motive. The problem I have with him committing the crime is that he would have had to have had access to Karen, and I don’t see how that came about. This is definitely a possibility if Karen met him on that fateful day to discuss the phone call 10 days prior. But if this were the case, then I think the police would have revealed this information. I just can’t see it as a plausible option that he has met Karen, and the police know, and the police have not told the public, especially in light of the front page Herald Sun article featuring the stepson. It is simply unthinkable that the police would just keep that information from the public and let this guy lie his way around town. So, it seems as if Karen did not meet the stepson that day, or at least had no plans to do so (and the police don't know that they really met- if they have in fact really met- which is why they are not mentioning it publicly and its an active part of their on-going investigation).
I don’t really see his drug use as a barrier to a murder without clues. It depends how much he was using, who he enlisted to help, and if the cops have found the right car used in the crime. He could have even stolen a car to use in the disposal of the body then torched it in the middle of nowhere. That a drug user would make a sloppy crime scene is not necessarily true. There is also luck involved and he could just be the luckiest prick around to have skated away without leaving clues.

That then makes me look back at the husband, again. As enticing a prospect for murderer as the stepson seems to be, the husband still remains the one with the easiest access to Karen, and combining that with the history of these kinds of cases in Australia (Bayden Clay, etc.), and the fact that the family home was in Karen’s name, and the business wasn’t so sound; it seems like the husband is guilty of her murder.

I wonder if the stepson’s call to Karen prompted Borce to do something drastic. It just seems odd that the stepson calls his stepmother to confront her about sexual molestation and that she goes missing 10 days later.
Imagine Karen was really going to leave Borce and give the stepson a part of the sale proceeds of the house. That would be explosive. I would feel sorry for Borce in that instance, because his wife molests his son and then she sells the house on him to pay compensation to the stepson she abused. Meanwhile, Borce gets rolled on a number of fronts:

1) No primary residence in his name;
2) His wife molests his son;
3) His wife sells the house and Borce might have stood to get little to **** all out of it, with the step/son possibly getting more than him of his own house.

I don’t think the son and father cooperated in this situation. I also find it difficult that Karen would have been cooperating behind Borce’s back with the stepson. Though, if she really did molest Borce’s son, then maybe her paying compensation toward him was a prospect she was entertaining, which, when Borce found out, pushed him over the edge. If this is the situation, then Borce sounds like he was in a really ****** situation.

Further, Borce might have accomplices.

Something is up and the police are keeping quiet. I think they know what happened and now it’s a matter of gathering proof to see what they can prove in a court of law.

These thoughts were prompted by what was said in the final comments here:
https://aussiecriminals.com.au/2016/07/14/what-happened-to-melbourne-woman-karen-ristevski/#comments

This case might have a breakthrough in the next few days and I just thought I’ll offer a kind of summary of where I think things stand.

 

[Karinna]

Just my thoughts.... obviously they (police) focus alot early on the inner circle...but they can't (nor should they) shut out other possibilities...... a death by misadventure, such as robbery would be one line of enquiry..

Most in the area would be alarmed and report a body ......

But what if a member of the public saw something that just looked like discarded rubbish, junk....something tossed into the bushes or edge of the river....

There's lots a crap people throw out the back along the walking track....because they are lazy and dont give a shiate...small rubbish...sometimes larger items because they are too tight to spend money taking stuff to the tip.

The council normally have workers clean up around the area, but thats not on a daily basis.

So Im thinking it was just important to get the description of the bag out there ...... incase someone came across it...

I agree and i'm sure police are looking at other possiblities and lines of inquiry. They would perhaps be getting tips via their Crimestoppers number as well? I think if someone robbed her and just snatched her handbag then they would of run away with it & got any money from it and then ditched it. But in that case i don't think they would of killed her if they just were after money, IMO. They obviously couldn't use her bank account in that case because that hasn't been touched since she went missing.
I wonder if police got a warrant to search the family home at all?
Unless KR disappeared herself then someone has done that to her but for what purpose and for what motive?

 

[Puggle]

I agree and i'm sure police are looking at other possiblities and lines of inquiry. They would perhaps be getting tips via their Crimestoppers number as well? I think if someone robbed her and just snatched her handbag then they would of run away with it & got any money from it and then ditched it. But in that case i don't think they would of killed her if they just were after money, IMO. They obviously couldn't use her bank account in that case because that hasn't been touched since she went missing.
I wonder if police got a warrant to search the family home at all?
Unless KR disappeared herself then someone has done that to her but for what purpose and for what motive?

Yeah its hard to know how these things play out sometimes......

Only because its fresher in my mind.... Adrian Bailey who killed Jill Meagher..... He murdered her...

ahhh thinking Puggle...did he leave her bag or was it tossed on a roof in the laneway....

Either way....he left her handbag behind. He actually killed her and went home to collect a shovel before returning to Collect her body to take her to a second location to bury her....

As an earlier poster said today I think....they went to the exact location in Avondale Heights at 10am.....its quiet....no one around.

I grew up in this area and visit my mum on occasion...even during weekdays...and its quiet, nobody probably notices when I visit...I sure dont take notice of anybody else if Im being honest.....and the track is usually empty.....weekends are busier....but its very long and plenty of areas not visable if you were up to no good.

Anyway...thats just my take on why the handbag may be important.....if it was found...it may be a clue to the initial crime scene.

.....or not....

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Oh that 'claimed but not proven' abuse - the way it was written I thought Karen was being abused - :thinking:

Oh!!! I actually think that's likely too though.

 

[moreinfo]

I’m not sure I can believe much of what AR has to say at this point. They could all be false ramblings.
Seriously I can’t see Karen having a one on one convo to him about leaving her husband. As if you would disclosure secrets of this nature to a mentally unstable ice addict who I doubt she was close with. I t sounds like he’s building up a case for himself as to why he shouldn’t be considered a suspect.
How often did he have contact with family, for him to be aware and state they were having marital problems?
His aunt MJ or whoever she is, states on a Courier Mail post, dated 24 July, he didn’t know she was missing till he heard it on the news. So, he couldn’t have been close to her if his dad or stepsister didn’t inform him or even ask if he knew where she was?
Also from herald sun " but has been unable to account for all of his whereabouts on June 29 — the day his stepmother disappeared — apart from a visit to a pharmacy in Diggers Rest.
Phone records could reveal his movements that day, and Mr Rickard has supplied details of his mobile phones — telling police he has had up to five phones in the past two months."
why couldn't he work out what he was doing that day-surely he could remember or "refer back" that was the morning he started posting all those disturbing things,

 

[LexR]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what time Karen's shop Bella Bleu was supposed to open that day and if Karen is the one who would be there to open it? With that thought I'm wondering if her car keys are missing along with her bag too or if they were conveniently left at home? If she had work that day then I just find it highly odd she would go off on a walk with her handbag instead of just leaving the house in her car.

 

[sleepinoz]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what time Karen's shop Bella Bleu was supposed to open that day and if Karen is the one who would be there to open it? With that thought I'm wondering if her car keys are missing along with her bag too or if they were conveniently left at home? If she had work that day then I just find it highly odd she would go off on a walk with her handbag instead of just leaving the house in her car.

According to their FB page their opening hours are:

Mon-Wed:
9:00 am - 5:30 pm
Thu-Fri:9:00 am - 9:00 pm
Sat:9:00 am - 5:00 pm
Sun:10:00 am - 5:00 pm

 

[ScottKam]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what time Karen's shop Bella Bleu was supposed to open that day and if Karen is the one who would be there to open it? With that thought I'm wondering if her car keys are missing along with her bag too or if they were conveniently left at home? If she had work that day then I just find it highly odd she would go off on a walk with her handbag instead of just leaving the house in her car.

That point is significant. Perhaps she was a smoker and would go for a smoke around the corner somewhere in the park, just to clear her head. Perhaps that's what happened. This sounds reasonable and plausible. But she never came back.

But, as i said pages back, going missing in the park is always, for me at least, associated with ending up in the river. That she is not in the river, it makes me assume she was not in the park at all. That leaves the footpath for a walk to another destination, but i also doubt this theory. I just seem to be doubtful of the scenario that she left the house on foot. Although i concede it is possible, i just still have this unquenchable doubt that she would walk somewhere on foot and then never come back; and, given how these scenarios usually end up with the husband being a suspect, i then factor into account the house in her name and the business debts and i cannot help but assume her husband has killed her. tragic. Then we have the whole curve-ball of the oddball stepson who is doing his best to look shifty and shady, which makes me further doubtful of it all.

The cops keeping silent means they must be onto someone. Not sure who.

 

[LexR]

That point is significant. Perhaps she was a smoker and would go for a smoke around the corner somewhere in the park, just to clear her head. Perhaps that's what happened. This sounds reasonable and plausible. But she never came back.

But, as i said pages back, going missing in the park is always, for me at least, associated with ending up in the river. That she is not in the river, it makes me assume she was not in the park at all. That leaves the footpath for a walk to another destination, but i also doubt this theory. I just seem to be doubtful of the scenario that she left the house on foot. Although i concede it is possible, i just still have this unquenchable doubt that she would walk somewhere on foot and then never come back; and, given how these scenarios usually end up with the husband being a suspect, i then factor in the house in her name and the business debts into account and i cannot help but assume her husband has killed her. tragic. Then we have the whole curve-ball of the oddball stepson who is doing his best to look shifty and shady, which makes me further doubtful of it all.

The cops keeping silent means they must be onto someone. Not sure who.

Yes completely agree. If she has met with foul play on her walk then it has been completely opportunistic of whoever has harmed her. I think it's more plausible and IMO highly likely something happened inside the home.

If Bella Bleu opened at 9am the day Karen went missing then they must of had someone else open the store that day (if it opened) and I wonder when Karen was expected in.

It will be interesting to see what comes out when someone is charged, like the information that came out in GBC's charging re the life insurance, blood in car etc.

 

[ScottKam]

One other theory that has struck me, though which i doubt has received much attention here (and little from me) is that maybe she did go for a smoke and walk in the park behind their house, and she came across some creep who has kidnapped her, and he might even live in a neighbouring house. The random stranger theory might still be in play, despite the fact the husband and stepson look like to have done something. Without more information we just really don't know.

The evidence seems to point to the husband, but i just can't believe it. I'm not prepared to believe it until it is confirmed by the police, if ever.
I can definitely believe the stepson is guilty of her murder- and he admits himself that he has what it takes to do it and the motive to do it. Oddly enough, he also admits that his dad is the one without the guts to do it.

One odd thing is that the stepson does not seem AT ALL concerned that his stepmother is missing. think about that. It is highly significant that he seems to be revelling in the situation rather than being distressed at her being missing. Usually, that bespeaks guilt. Perhaps he is blinded by hatred for his dad to care for missing Karen; and/or perhaps his allegations of molestation are real. But i just find him to lack credibility.

Usually, however, when an article appears of a relative of a missing person it is about the relative's concern for the missing. Not with Rickard it was not. It was simply about his sob story, which may very well be fabricated. When i think of the situation in that light, i see Rickard as definitely guilty. Rickard didn't mention Sarah at all, i think. There was no sympathy toward the family.

That is suspicious.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

ScottKam I agree and disagree- I think AR being so outspoken speaks more towards his false bravado and mental instability, I think he'd definitely be able to kill her but I don't think he could have done it without making a huge mess of it and leaving evidence everywhere. Having said that, of course we don't know what evidence the police have that they haven't released publicly.

I just think it is usually the most simplest explanation - 80 women were killed by men in a DV situation last year. A woman in "good " social circles, a business, nice home, etc - these are reasons a woman doesn't leave a bad situation. And the most dangerous time for an abused woman is when she is leaving, or has just left. It sounds to me like everything was coming to a head: the business in such trouble, personal assets being frozen, adult children (some women stay only until the kids are grown). Simplest explanation is a DV murder.
Occam's Razer: The husband did it.

I hope I'm wrong though. i hope she's just hiding out with friends somewhere.