Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #11

[CalliopeGG]

I'm also wondering how the media knew BR had sought a loan from a "notorious Melbourne loan shark on at least two occasions".

Something else that has occurred to me is that he may have asked for a loan, but it doesn't necessarily mean he was given one. All we can really conclude is that the financial situation was getting desperate if he was having to resort to this method of finance IMO, contrary to Mr R indicating things were pretty sweet.

http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/vi...&cls=472&clsPage=1&docID=SAG130908I851719699N

 

[matey]

You and me both! I've spent a lot of thinking time trying to work out what it must be like to be Sarah. So many of us have tried to get into her head. The conclusion I've reached is we just don't know enough to judge.

It could be as simple as Sarah being in denial and shutting down!

As well, it has been mentioned on here that DV may have played a part within the family and that Sarah is simply afraid of speaking out through fear of saying the wrong thing as she doesn't want to upset her father.

Sarah was apparently working for Karen at Bella Bleu as well as going to Uni before Karen's disappearance.
I also remember that staff mentioned that Borce used to help out there as well and that he supported Karen's ability and ideas.

However in the weeks before Karen's disappearance, I would like to know what happened to cause the rift between Sarah and her mother, as she appears to be clinging to her father now for support which is understandable, as he is all she has left now as immediate family.

I have also read that Karen went walking to clear her head after arguments in the past, but she always came back.
This time she didn't!...MOO

 

[CalliopeGG]

It could be as simple as Sarah being in denial and shutting down!

As well, it has been mentioned on here that DV may have played a part within the family and that Sarah is simply afraid of speaking out through fear of saying the wrong thing as she doesn't want to upset her father.

Sarah was apparently working for Karen at Bella Bleu as well as going to Uni before Karen's disappearance.
I also remember that staff mentioned that Borce used to help out there as well and that he supported Karen's ability and ideas.

However in the weeks before Karen's disappearance, I would like to know what happened to cause the rift between Sarah and her mother, as she appears to be clinging to her father now for support which is understandable, as he is all she has left now as immediate family.

I have also read that Karen went walking to clear her head after arguments in the past, but she always came back.
This time she didn't!...MOO

I can't remember who DV is. Surely you don't mean.....DARTH VADER!!??

 

[decsimp]

I can't remember who DV is. Surely you don't mean.....DARTH VADER!!??

Denim vest??

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[Deleted member 102539]

It could be as simple as Sarah being in denial and shutting down!

As well, it has been mentioned on here that DV may have played a part within the family and that Sarah is simply afraid of speaking out through fear of saying the wrong thing as she doesn't want to upset her father.

Sarah was apparently working for Karen at Bella Bleu as well as going to Uni before Karen's disappearance.
I also remember that staff mentioned that Borce used to help out there as well and that he supported Karen's ability and ideas.

However in the weeks before Karen's disappearance, I would like to know what happened to cause the rift between Sarah and her mother, as she appears to be clinging to her father now for support which is understandable, as he is all she has left now as immediate family.

I have also read that Karen went walking to clear her head after arguments in the past, but she always came back.
This time she didn't!...MOO

bbm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/d544bf9c557888cb3d895dccb95f5c7a
Mr Ristevski was strongly supportive of his wife, she says, and was always showing an interest in her clothing designs and helping out in the store. “He is an amazing person and he was always in here with her and helping her, even on quiet days,’’ she says.

I for my part wouldn't like to have my husband around at all time over the day. Under money pressure since years, above all I would have liked him to have a job of his own.

 

[Jennifer17]

bbm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/d544bf9c557888cb3d895dccb95f5c7a
Mr Ristevski was strongly supportive of his wife, she says, and was always showing an interest in her clothing designs and helping out in the store. “He is an amazing person and he was always in here with her and helping her, even on quiet days,’’ she says.

I for my part wouldn't like to have my husband around at all time over the day. Under money pressure since years, above all I would have liked him to have a job of his own.

I can't read that article. It wants me to pay. Was it Sarah who said that?

 

[Sillybilly]

I can't remember who DV is. Surely you don't mean.....DARTH VADER!!??

You get an E for effort, but I think it is Domestic Violence

 

[CalliopeGG]

Denim vest??

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That's totally hilarious! He is infamous for his possible involvement AND fashion choice!

 

[CalliopeGG]

You get an E for effort, but I think it is Domestic Violence

Oh I SEE! Domestic violence. Dahh! Not so funny.

I have previously wondered on here whether SR may be afraid of her father. She has reason to be IMO.

 

[ozazure]

bbm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/d544bf9c557888cb3d895dccb95f5c7a
Mr Ristevski was strongly supportive of his wife, she says, and was always showing an interest in her clothing designs and helping out in the store. “He is an amazing person and he was always in here with her and helping her, even on quiet days,’’ she says.

I for my part wouldn't like to have my husband around at all time over the day. Under money pressure since years, above all I would have liked him to have a job of his own.

I agree that working on top of each other doesn't sound like a good time to me, like he is looking for something to do.

It is really hard to make heads or tails of the family dynamics from the tiny snippets we've been told. I mean, interstate family reported close ties, but whose to say? Families put on shows, I would continue to be unaware of the depth of some issues in my sibling's families if people didn't confide things, and certainly the whole family is not aware of particular tensions.

They have truly been a very closed mouth bunch in general, from Karen's immediate family to friends and work mates and further out circles.

 

[sosocurious]

I can't read that article. It wants me to pay. Was it Sarah who said that?

No it was Amanda Elrabat a 24 year old staff member who had been employed for 4 years.
“The shop is everything to Karen. She is an amazing boss: generous, caring, loving. She treated us (staff) like we were daughters,”
Speculation of foul play was unfair and the husband, Ms Elrabat insists, would not have done anything to harm her.

Ms Elrabat, got to know Mr Ristevski and daughter Sarah and has hit out at what she claims is misinformation in the media, saying the Ristevskis were close: “She was happy and really bubbly with customers. She had her regulars that always come in, she treated them like friends.”

Though, neither Borce or Karen dropped their guard to staff while facing apparent pressures.


I wonder if Sarah was aware of the apparent pressures?
Was it said that Sarah managed the Broadmeadows store?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/d544bf9c557888cb3d895dccb95f5c7a

 

[Jennifer17]

No it was Amanda Elrabat a 24 year old staff member who had been employed for 4 years.
“The shop is everything to Karen. She is an amazing boss: generous, caring, loving. She treated us (staff) like we were daughters,”
Speculation of foul play was unfair and the husband, Ms Elrabat insists, would not have done anything to harm her.

Ms Elrabat, got to know Mr Ristevski and daughter Sarah and has hit out at what she claims is misinformation in the media, saying the Ristevskis were close: “She was happy and really bubbly with customers. She had her regulars that always come in, she treated them like friends.”

Though, neither Borce or Karen dropped their guard to staff while facing apparent pressures.


I wonder if Sarah was aware of the apparent pressures?
Was it said that Sarah managed the Broadmeadows store?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/d544bf9c557888cb3d895dccb95f5c7a

But your snip is that 'she' was amazing. Was 'he' amazing too? I find that a bit over the top.

Alison Baden Clay was 'amazing' too as was Gerard 'amazing' and they had such a happy marriage, and putting on a great show to the world. Turns out he killed her.

 

[SouthAussie]

Too funny! This BB sounds like such a honey and so creative too. Fancy handing out a multiple choice punishment! I'd not like to be in BR's shoes owing money to somebody like him. Could the couple have argued about using the inheritance money to pay back the loan or even that money in Karen's purse that BR knew the exact amount of, if things were getting desperate? JMO

http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/vi...&cls=472&clsPage=1&docID=SAG130908I851719699N

BBM
We don’t even know if they actually argued. Just Borce’s word for that. And Sarah’s reinforcement.
It could be that Borce needed an excuse for Karen to have left without her car, and not to show up at work or contact anyone else for a while. An argument may have provided that excuse.

One important detail that the police know and have not revealed is whether or not there was a life insurance policy for Karen, or an income protection insurance policy as they also have a death payout.

At first we thought there may be no policy as Karen was missing and no-one could find her. No body, no payout ... well, not for 7 years or so anyway. But once Karen was found, it seems she was not concealed very well – as if maybe someone wanted her to be found.

It would make sense if Karen at least had an income protection policy, being the apparent main breadwinner in the family.

 

[CalliopeGG]

BBM
We don’t even know if they actually argued. Just Borce’s word for that. And Sarah’s reinforcement.
It could be that Borce needed an excuse for Karen to have left without her car, and not to show up at work or contact anyone else for a while. An argument may have provided that excuse.

One important detail that the police know and have not revealed is whether or not there was a life insurance policy for Karen, or an income protection insurance policy as they also have a death payout.

At first we thought there may be no policy as Karen was missing and no-one could find her. No body, no payout ... well, not for 7 years or so anyway. But once Karen was found, it seems she was not concealed very well – as if maybe someone wanted her to be found.

It would make sense if Karen at least had an income protection policy, being the apparent main breadwinner in the family.

That's interesting. I had discounted that idea in my mind as there has never been the slightest mention of a life insurance policy. It would certainly give him motive. On the other hand Would AR be able to resist alluding to it?

My theory on the disposal site is that an attempt was made to bury her, hence the soil on the shovel, but for some reason this had to be abandoned. It has been suggested somewhere I think, that the ground was too hard there. Since she wasn't found for 8 months and COD can't be determined, it was quite a "good" concealment IMO. I can't imagine BR twiddling his thumbs for 8 months patiently waiting for his insurance payout either.

I'm mulling it over again now though South Aussie.

 

[SouthAussie]

That's interesting. I had discounted that idea in my mind as there has never been the slightest mention of a life insurance policy. It would certainly give him motive. On the other hand Would AR be able to resist alluding to it?

My theory on the disposal site is that an attempt was made to bury her, hence the soil on the shovel, but for some reason this had to be abandoned. It has been suggested somewhere I think, that the ground was too hard there. Since she wasn't found for 8 months and COD can't be determined, it was quite a "good" concealment IMO. I can't imagine BR twiddling his thumbs for 8 months patiently waiting for his insurance payout either.

I'm mulling it over again now though South Aussie.

I think it is worth a mull-over. As it has been suggested from an unverified source that this was a planned crime. imo

Soil on the shovel could easily have come from scraping up some soil/leaves/twigs to cover Karen. Less chance of leaving your own DNA on any of those leaves/twigs. Does not necessarily mean any attempt whatsoever at digging.

If anyone wanted to get rid of Karen on a very permanent basis, why go north/west to the forest … a fairly inhabited area, lots of bush walkers and horse riders, a risk of Karen being found quite soon (remember the odour)?

Why not go south to the ocean, for a perhaps more effective disposal site?

Just some thoughts that may warrant consideration.


ETA: AR may not have known about any insurance policy. Not necessarily a thing that people discuss with their children.

 

[CalliopeGG]

I think it is worth a mull-over. As it has been suggested from an unverified source that this was a planned crime. imo

Soil on the shovel could easily have come from scraping up some soil/leaves/twigs to cover Karen. Less chance of leaving your own DNA on any of those leaves/twigs. Does not necessarily mean any attempt whatsoever at digging.

If anyone wanted to get rid of Karen on a very permanent basis, why go north/west to the forest … a fairly inhabited area, lots of bush walkers and horse riders, a risk of Karen being found quite soon (remember the odour)?

Why not go south to the ocean, for a perhaps more effective disposal site?

Just some thoughts that may warrant consideration.

All good points as always South Aussie. The criminal profiler thought the site was chosen because of prior knowledge. She thought it was planned or spontaneous.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/www.da...illing-new-theory-murder-Karen-Ristevski.html

Charlie Bezzina said it seemed unplanned.


"Victoria's former top homicide investigator, Charlie Bezzina, on Wednesday told Nine Network's Today Show the crime scene indicated the suspected murder seemed 'personal' and 'unplanned'."

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/www.da...tevski-family-Borce-Melbourne-Mt-Macedon.html

My personal feeling is that it was a mixed crime, as I've said before, but of course I don't really know. I think he had thought about it, but it was probably a lot harder than anticipated to execute the plan and avoid detection, particularly if emotion was running high. All JMOO.

 

[Oona]

A life insurance payout would be very handy for someone whose finances are so dire that they have sought loans from a notorious loan shark on two occasions...... but that wouldn't be Borce as his finances are rosy [emoji6]



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[CalliopeGG]

A life insurance payout would be very handy for someone whose finances are so dire that they have sought loans from a notorious loan shark on two occasions...... but that wouldn't be Borce as his finances are rosy [emoji6]



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Indeed and as we have seen with GBC, as bizarre as it seems to us, it can be a real plan to get out of a tight spot.

I'm just re-reading this article, which is quite a good one. It highlights how furious he was at having his finances aired in public, rather than showing concern over his missing wife. Why so mad? Pride or perhaps it hit a raw nerve in regard to his ulterior motive?

One thing it does show is he has quite a temper if provoked over his financial inadequacy IMO. Also at that point he was following what was going on in the media pretty closely.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...l. Google: Ristevski Murder not Laid to Rest.

 

[Oona]

Indeed and as we have seen with GBC, as bizarre as it seems to us, it can be a real plan to get out of a tight spot.

I'm just re-reading this article, which is quite a good one. It highlights how furious he was at having his finances aired in public, rather than showing concern over his missing wife. Why so mad? Pride or perhaps it hit a raw nerve in regard to his ulterior motive?

One thing it does show is he has quite a temper if provoked over his financial inadequacy IMO. Also at that point he was following what was going on in the media pretty closely.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new... motive. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SouthAussie]

Indeed and as we have seen with GBC, as bizarre as it seems to us, it can be a real plan to get out of a tight spot.

RSBM

Some people are very motivated by money. As you say, GBC tried to plan Allison's death and find his way to claim their joint estate in its entirety. His business was not doing so well, due to the real estate market at the time. He left Allison in a similar place .. in a place of nature, not too far away, not too close, not too concealed, not too much in the open. And Allison went for a 'walk', too.

GBC was a cool cucumber, as well. Didn't have too much to do with the media. Struggled to find a tear. His parents covering his tail and assisting him, a bit like Vasko.


The parallels between the two cases are quite interesting. One of the reasons why I would not be at all surprised if we later find there has been a woman in the background, too. Though I believe that retaining the full estate (and insurance?) would be the primary motive, with Karen perhaps planning to leave Borce – in the same way that I believe retaining the full estate was GBC’s primary motive.

It is almost as if Borce used that case as a template for Karen's disappearance. Just a bit of tweaking here and there. Let's hope that if Borce is guilty, he is soon arrested and the outcome is the same.