Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #15 *Arrest*

[Itsapuzzle]

I'm following the Jason Rohde trial and the investigating officer is currently on the stand explaining extracting whatsapp messages, for those interested, (google-there are sites describing how to manipulate whatsapp messages) here are the tweets. -

https://twitter.com/LA_JANSEN

When messages are deleted off whatsapp, it's hard to ascertain the time of the message. It's easier if entire chat deleted

Engelbrecht says whatsapp messages can only be retrieved from the Whatsapp company, with a warrant

Date and time of messages can be manipulated. Need to check date and time on device and itemised billing

Engelbrecht confirms that one can track how a photo got onto a handset


(In answer to your question Itsapuzzle, yes, the messages can be manipulated in various ways)

Thanks PrimeSuspect, completely interesting ..... MOO but I reckon they're fake, and IF they are fake then whoever provided them probably knows who is responsible for the untimely demise of KR. I doubt that the author of the story, or news.com.au for that matter got a warrant to check out its authenticity [emoji848] ..... wonder if LE have checked it out .... probably not ..... all MOO





Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[JLZ]

Thanks PrimeSuspect, completely interesting ..... MOO but I reckon they're fake, and IF they are fake then whoever provided them probably knows who is responsible for the untimely demise of KR. I doubt that the author of the story, or news.com.au for that matter got a warrant to check out its authenticity [emoji848] ..... wonder if LE have checked it out .... probably not ..... all MOO





Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

There are other possible motives for the faking. Money, attention/fame.

 

[Bohemian]

There are other possible motives for the faking. Money, attention/fame.

General bastardry . . .

 

[Itsapuzzle]

There are other possible motives for the faking. Money, attention/fame.

I guess if the author of story concocted the whole thing the money attention/fame scenario would come into play, for sure, JLZ [emoji848] ... but the whatsapp messages and happy family story was provided by mystery person, so no fame, money and attention going their way .... and MOO really

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[JLZ]

I guess if the author of story concocted the whole thing the money attention/fame scenario would come into play, for sure, JLZ [emoji848] ... but the whatsapp messages and happy family story was provided by mystery person, so no fame, money and attention going their way .... and MOO really

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

I don't see it that way exactly. If the paper's buying your story (even through an intermediary) and publishing your handiwork, that's attention and fame. It would be especially rewarding if MSM had previously turned you down.

But I don't get why the story is seemingly at odds with the podcast.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I don't see it that way exactly. If the paper's buying your story (even through an intermediary) and publishing your handiwork, that's attention and fame. It would be especially rewarding if MSM had previously turned you down.

But I don't get why the story is seemingly at odds with the podcast.

I think there were more episodes to come before the plug got pulled on it, JLZ, the podcast that is .... maybe news.com.au contacted KH to see what other info he had received, and gave opportunity to share it .... is that too whacky a thought , not sure ..... but anyway, all I think is whoever provided whatsapp/story to KH wanted to clear BRs name, paint a picture of a happy marriage really [emoji848] PS, I shutup now, hee [emoji847]

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

 

[sosocurious]

Thanks PrimeSuspect, completely interesting ..... MOO but I reckon they're fake, and IF they are fake then whoever provided them probably knows who is responsible for the untimely demise of KR. I doubt that the author of the story, or news.com.au for that matter got a warrant to check out its authenticity [emoji848] ..... wonder if LE have checked it out .... probably not ..... all MOO





Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk

So can you change or create details, time and images to create a fake chat?

 

[SouthAussie]

So can you change or create details, time and images to create a fake chat?

I remember a person (and it wasn't me!) who used to change the time on the computer before she emailed that she had arrived at work. The email was marked as 'sent' at the (incorrect) computer time. Then she would change the computer time back to the correct time.

Due to being able to manually change the time and date on our phones and computers, many things can be manipulated.

In addition to this, if any of us wanted to create a fake email/Instagram/FB/Messenger/whatever account that looked like it belonged to Karen, we could quite easily do so.

So, imo, yes. A fake chat could be created.


.

 

[Gigi30]

Would love to hear how the inspection went emirates...

 

[SouthAussie]

Would love to hear how the inspection went emirates...

I recall you saying that you live in Avondale Heights.

Are you able to tell us, has Borce been shunned by the locals? Just wondering why he is wanting to move ... other than the obvious difficulties that he has exhibited in the past in dealing with finances.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ne-Vic-29-June-2016-3&p=12745553#post12745553

 

[sosocurious]

I remember a person (and it wasn't me!) who used to change the time on the computer before she emailed that she had arrived at work. The email was marked as 'sent' at the (incorrect) computer time. Then she would change the computer time back to the correct time.

Due to being able to manually change the time and date on our phones and computers, many things can be manipulated.

In addition to this, if any of us wanted to create a fake email/Instagram/FB/Messenger/whatever account that looked like it belonged to Karen, we could quite easily do so.

So, imo, yes. A fake chat could be created.


.

Thanks SA
Well there you go. Who would have thought.
So the whole picture perfect couple and the nicknames and romantic getaways could be as fake as the passport Vasko made mentioned of.
imo

 

[moreinfo]

Was flicking through some old articles and stumbled on this one , Charlie Bezzina was interviewed and said, "“If there has been no cause of death then it will never be solved because you can’t make it a murder if there is no cause of death.”" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/65baeaefafdf08d7725f924ff14c18cd
So, if BR is convicted , he'll be charged for something other than murder?
Are LE building a case to show the motive for murder etc, for a murder charge to be an option/to stick when this finally does go to court?

 

[JLZ]

Was flicking through some old articles and stumbled on this one , Charlie Bezzina was interviewed and said, "“If there has been no cause of death then it will never be solved because you can’t make it a murder if there is no cause of death.”" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...t/news-story/65baeaefafdf08d7725f924ff14c18cd
So, if BR is convicted , he'll be charged for something other than murder?
Are LE building a case to show the motive for murder etc, for a murder charge to be an option/to stick when this finally does go to court?

They couldn't determine the medical cause of Allison Baden-Clay's death, but her husband was charged with murder and convicted.

 

[Gigi30]

I recall you saying that you live in Avondale Heights.

Are you able to tell us, has Borce been shunned by the locals? Just wondering why he is wanting to move ... other than the obvious difficulties that he has exhibited in the past in dealing with finances.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?314658-Australia-Karen-Ristevski-47-Melbourne-Vic-29-June-2016

i live on the other side of Avondale ( close to canning st) to borce so I'm not in the know unfortunately. I'm guessing it's financially motivated or his guilty conscience can't stand to keep living in the house he shared with katen

 

[sosocurious]

They couldn't determine the medical cause of Allison Baden-Clay's death, but her husband was charged with murder and convicted.

:gaah: Yes Bruce Overland - intent and premeditation = murder, with no cause of death.
and that .... $$$$$$$$$$$ ...trail.
It held up in appeal as well and that is an important consideration - it seems.
imo

 

[steve richardson]

Was flicking through some old articles and stumbled on this one , Charlie Bezzina was interviewed and said, "“If there has been no cause of death then it will never be solved because you can’t make it a murder if there is no cause of death.”" http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...5f924ff14c18cd
So, if BR is convicted , he'll be charged for something other than murder?
Are LE building a case to show the motive for murder etc, for a murder charge to be an option/to stick when this finally does go to court?

We have had people convicted of murder in NZ with no bodies ever recovered and I am sure there must be cases like that in Australia no bodies ever recovered but murder charges proven. Lindy Chamberlain was convicted of murder with no body found although pardoned later. Obviously without a confession the cause of death can never be proven if no body is found and even if it is sometimes cause of death still cant be 100% confirmed.

1980s
In 1984, Mark Tildesley, a seven-year-old schoolboy, disappeared after leaving his home to go to the fairground in Wokingham, Berkshire, England. In 1990 it emerged that, on the night he disappeared, Tildesley had been abducted, drugged, tortured, raped and murdered by a London-based paedophile gang, led by Sidney Cooke. Another man named Leslie Bailey was charged with murder in 1991 and the following year was given two life sentences. Bailey was murdered in prison by other inmates shortly afterwards.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP] The case remains unsolved despite being featured heavily in the national press and on BBC TV'sCrimewatch.
In 1988 Helen McCourt, a 22-year-old insurance clerk from Lancashire disappeared. Ian Simms, a local pub landlord, was subsequently charged with and convicted of her murder. This case was also one of the first in the UK to use DNA fingerprinting.
American courts have also been allowed to press murder charges even if a body has not been recovered. In 1990, a Connecticut jury convicted Newtown airline pilot Richard Crafts of killing his Danish wife Helle in the 1986 "woodchipper murder", so called for the machine he had rented to dispose of her body in nearby lakes and streams. He was sentenced to 50 years in prison. The state police's forensic unit, led by Henry Lee, was able to match the DNA of some of the fragments that were discovered to Helle Crafts and the wood chipper her husband had used. It was the first bodyless murder trial in the state's history.

1990s
In 1996, Thomas Capano was convicted of the murder of Anne Marie Fahey, his former lover. Investigators did not have a murder weapon or body, nor any evidence that Capano had purchased a gun. He was convicted of first-degree murder in part due to the evidence given by his brother Gerry, who had admitted to helping Capano dump Fahey's body in the Atlantic Ocean.
In May 1999 the New Zealand High Court convicted Scott Watson of the murder of Ben Smart and Olivia Hope. Their bodies have never been found
.
2000s
In 2000, prosecutors in Orange County, New York, secured that jurisdiction's first-ever bodyless murder conviction. Gregory Chrysler and Lawrence Weygant were found guilty of beating Dominick Pendino, a coworker they mistakenly believed had given police the tip that had led to their arrest on drug-dealing charges, to death with a baseball bat and disposing of his body. They relied on eyewitness testimony from a former girlfriend and police informant, as well as forensic evidence showing that enough of Pendino's blood stained a car seat for him to have died without immediate medical attention. Neither the body nor the bat have been discovered: Chrysler and Weygant remain in prison and have rebuffed efforts to elicit the body's location from them.
In June 2001, Essex teenager Danielle Jones went missing and despite a body never being found, the required circumstantial evidence was provided by forensic analysis of text messages sent by the accused, her uncle Stuart Campbell, who was convicted of her murder 18 months later. Police determined that Campbell had sent text messages from Danielle's mobile phone to his own after she disappeared, to make it appear that she was still alive, and noted that the spelling of several words in the text messages sent from Danielle's mobile phone had changed after she was reported missing. Their suspicions were also supported by mobile phone records which showed that Campbell's mobile phone, and that of his missing niece, were within a short distance of each other when the messages were sent.
In 2002, Girly Chew Hossencofft's husband and his mistress were convicted of her murder, which occurred in 1999. Hossencofft's remains have never been located.
In spite of advances in forensic technology, the possibility of the supposed victim turning up alive remains. In 2003, Leonard Fraser, having allegedly confessed to the murder of teenager Natasha Ryan, was on trial for this, and other murders, when she reappeared after having been missing for four years.
In 2006, prosecutors in Nashville, Tennessee, had Perry March arrested and extradited from Mexico after he had been secretly indicted on charges of murdering his wife Janet, who had disappeared in 1996. An attempt to have March's in-laws killed while March was awaiting trial led to the arrest of his father, who as part of a plea agreement confessed to burying his daughter-in-law in a pile of brush near Bowling Green, Kentucky, but he was unable to lead police to the body after the intervening nine years. Perry March was convicted in 2006 almost ten years to the day after his wife disappeared.
In the Australian no-body murder of Keith William Allan, evidence from forensic accountants established a motive for his murder. The chance police finding of one perpetrator driving Allan's car and the conduct of all perpetrators, in particular mobile telephone records, were also important factors in their conviction.
In 2007 in Omaha, Nebraska, Christopher Edwards was convicted of murdering his girlfriend Jessica O'Grady, whose body has never been found. His mattress was soaked with her blood.
In 2008, Hans Reiser was convicted of first degree murder of his wife, Nina Reiser. After conviction and before sentencing, Reiser pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of second degree murder in exchange for disclosing the location of his wife's body.

2010s
In 2012, in Scotland the prosecution twice won a conviction without a body in the murder of Suzanne Pilley and the murder of Arlene Fraser.
In May 2013, Mark Bridger was convicted of the murder of April Jones, a five-year-old girl from Machynlleth, Powys, Wales, who disappeared on 1 October 2012. At his trial, Bridger claimed to have run her down in his car and killed her by accident, and to have no memory of what he did with her body after drinking heavily. The jury rejected his version of events, as bone fragments and blood discovered in Bridger's house within days of her disappearance were matched to the DNA of April Jones. The body of April Jones was not found despite the largest missing person search in UK history. Bridger claimed in court that April's DNA was found in his house as he had held her body there before disposing of it, but his claims were not believed by the jury.

Here is hoping history repeats:

In the Australian no-body murder of Keith William Allan, evidence from forensic accountants established a motive for his murder. The chance police finding of one perpetrator driving Allan's car and the conduct of all perpetrators, in particular mobile telephone records, were also important factors in their conviction

 

[Bohemian]

That’s the thing about violent criminals — they have look over their shoulders for the rest of their lives. Always wondering, is this the day I get the knock on the door? What’s that old saying, Steve? There’s no rest for the wicked.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Deleted this post .... whoopsie, the case of Keith Allan already mentioned in Steve's post

 

[JLZ]

Deleted this post .... whoopsie, the case of Keith Allan already mentioned in Steve's post

I enjoyed reading your link, Itsa, which was different from Steve's.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I enjoyed reading your link, Itsa, which was different from Steve's.

Thanks JLZ, it is interesting, the similarities ..... the Crown highrolling, Avondale Heights, trust funds, hitman, 3 charged, buried at Mt Macedon, flash car, etc ...... [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk