GUILTY Australia - Kiesha Weippeart, 6, Mount Druitt, NSW, 18 July 2010 - #1

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butwhatif? said:
'We're not just looking for a body but evidence'

Police remain open to the possibility that the girl's body might also be hidden at the reserve and yesterday said they were using the resources from both investigations to conduct a thorough search.

''We're not just looking for a body, we're also looking for evidence,'' one officer said. ''But it's pretty thick in there.''

They made a potential find early yesterday when what appeared to be a fairly new and recently used shovel was discovered well hidden under the end of a public boardwalk.

After it was discovered, a cadaver dog was brought in and officers were ordered to retrace their search.
He said that the area where the shovel was found would again be a focus for officers and a cadaver dog when the search resumed today.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/were-not-...-but-evidence-20100817-128ln.html?from=smh_sb
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Thank you butwhatif. Who found the shovel? Since the shovel is new, police should be able to find out who purchased it and lift fingerprints off the handle. It is encouraging to see the progress being made in this case.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
Thank you butwhatif. Who found the shovel? Since the shovel is new, police should be able to find out who purchased it and lift fingerprints off the handle. It is encouraging to see the progress being made in this case.
Click to expand...

Looks like it was the official Police and SES searchers who found it.

But I tell ya, those cops have their works cut out for them! Two sets of detectives working in the same spot for evidence of two possible murders. Separating the evidence may not be so easy.
 
Bit of a stupid killer, leaving a shovel lying around........however I dont think these two are the sharpest tools in the shed, so this could be significant....

As I have not read anything about this case for a couple of days, just noticed that the psychic has been in regular contact with the parents.....and the police liason officer knows them well......hhhmmmmm doesnt sit right............

Also I dont know if this has been addressed, but I read somewhere that they dont have a car....is this correct???? I am not sure what distance we are talking here, but is where they are searching quite a bit away from the unit??? How would they transport the body???? was a car borrowed from someone???

On the facebook page there was mention that a car was stolen from that same block of units that night.....

can someone fill me in on what we know about a car situation or do you think they/he/she carried her to where she may be???
 
revampz said:
Bit of a stupid killer, leaving a shovel lying around........however I dont think these two are the sharpest tools in the shed, so this could be significant....

As I have not read anything about this case for a couple of days, just noticed that the psychic has been in regular contact with the parents.....and the police liason officer knows them well......hhhmmmmm doesnt sit right............

Also I dont know if this has been addressed, but I read somewhere that they dont have a car....is this correct???? I am not sure what distance we are talking here, but is where they are searching quite a bit away from the unit??? How would they transport the body???? was a car borrowed from someone???

On the facebook page there was mention that a car was stolen from that same block of units that night.....

can someone fill me in on what we know about a car situation or do you think they/he/she carried her to where she may be???
Click to expand...

Firstly here's a pic of the shovel found in bushland in the search for Kiesha and other body parts belonging to the torso found.

Kiesha20search-420x0shovel.jpg


Doesn't look like a cheapie. Looks like it has a leather strap.

Re: The car I have no idea if they own their own car or not. But in the beginning , when the media were following them everywhere, they were seen in the same dark blue sedan every time. I'm assuming it is theirs, or they regularly borrowed it because of the report of the eyewitness seeing Kiesha being beaten by her step-dad in the car at the shops.

ETA: Seems these shovels are made for 4wd's.
 
Per the Feds, we can't get the missing persons report.
I checked online before calling the police, since I know they have their hands full atm.

Question: Are details about missing persons kept confidential?
All details about missing persons are kept confidential and are not made available to the public unless permission has been granted by the family of the missing person and investigating officers.
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http://www.missingpersons.gov.au/nmpcc/faqs.aspx

(ETA: forgive all my typos I've been making, as I'm using my 6 yr olds pc 'cause mines in the shop. This keyboard and I dont get along very well.)
 
Dear Posters:

Please stay on topic.

Thanks for your care for this little girl.

Hoppy
mod
 
Despite extensive air, land and underwater searches in the local area, no trace of her has been found.

Detective Inspector Oxford asked the community to look closely at the mannequin, saying it was possible that items of clothing like those on it could be found.

"The information that's been coming in has been tremendous, we're looking at about day 17 I think now and we're not going to give up," he said.
Click to expand...

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ry/story-e6frfku0-1225906788951#ixzz0wvANyNBi

BBM- This does not sound like they think she's alive, and hoping to jog peoples memories with the mannequin, since they're saying those items of clothing may be found.

I think they know a lot more now, and are keeping it hush-hush, until she is finally found.

So glad that the cadaver dogs are going back over the area, after reading about so many cases where the dogs missed the body the first time.

ETA:
A mannequin dressed in the clothes Sydney girl Kiesha Abrahams was reported to be wearing when she went missing has gone on display in a bid to spark someone's memory.

Police hope the likeness of the six-year-old will jog the memory of anyone who saw her before or after she disappeared on August 1.

They said the last time anyone outside her immediate family saw Kiesha was on July 24 - a week before her mother reported her missing.
Click to expand...

mannequin-420x0.jpg
 
butwhatif? said:
Per the Feds, we can't get the missing persons report.
I checked online before calling the police, since I know they have their hands full atm.



http://www.missingpersons.gov.au/nmpcc/faqs.aspx

(ETA: forgive all my typos I've been making, as I'm using my 6 yr olds pc 'cause mines in the shop. This keyboard and I dont get along very well.)
Click to expand...

Thank you for all your hard work and checking into this matter. The laws in Australia differ from those in Florida where the public had audio access to the 911 call which was placed by the babysitter/girlfriend and the transcript. We also had access to the report which was taken by Law Enforcement Officers who arrived at her home shortly after the 911 call to conduct an investigation. It is possible then that Robert and Kristi did take a polygraph and the results lead them to name Robert as a suspect.
 
butwhatif? said:
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...ry/story-e6frfku0-1225906788951#ixzz0wvANyNBi

BBM- This does not sound like they think she's alive, and hoping to jog peoples memories with the mannequin, since they're saying those items of clothing may be found.

I think they know a lot more now, and are keeping it hush-hush, until she is finally found.

So glad that the cadaver dogs are going back over the area, after reading about so many cases where the dogs missed the body the first time.

ETA:


mannequin-420x0.jpg
Click to expand...

It is a good idea to alert the public to be on the lookout for Kiesha's clothing but if she was buried in a grave, IMO her clothing are likely in there too. I am glad to hear the police are taking the cadaver dogs back over the area for the same reason as you. Thank you for keeping us posted.
 
In Canada and the United States of America, Chris Weippeart, Kiesha's biological father, would be required by law to pay monthly child support to Kristi. Mr. Weippeart said he sent his daughter presents at Christmas so what does the law in Australia have to say on this issue? Perhaps Mr. Weippeart has been paying child support and this information is private.

If police did not find evidence of foul play in the home and Kristi and Robert own a vehicle, I wonder why police didn't apprehend their vehicle in order to conduct forensic tests, especially since an eye witness alleges Robert beat Kiesha in his car?

Biting a child is something you would expect from a young child or an animal but certainly not from an adult and biological mother. If someone did abduct this child from her home to protect her from further abuse, IMO they would have called DCF to explain why they felt justified in removing her from her home. Because this hasn't happened and I don't believe the mother is telling the truth about what happened to her daughter, sadly I also believe Kiesha is deceased. I am however impressed with the police force who are diligent in seeking justice for Kiesha and I hope this child's body is soon recovered and she is given a proper burial.
 
Why Kiesha's mum isn't out looking for her: she's too busy caring for her other kids

[snip]

A few suburbs away police were making a desperate plea for information as they unveiled a mannequin dressed in clothes identical to those of her missing child Kiesha.

It was a last-ditch effort to find the six-year-old, 18 days after she went missing from her home in Mt Druitt in Sydney's west.

Homicide detectives said Ms Abrahams and her partner Robert Smith were asked to be part of the renewed appeal for information but the pair said they were "busy".
 
This is the bit I like:

As the end of the third week since Kiesha disappearance loomed, Insp Oxford said: "We will find what has happened to this young girl, I'm confident of that."


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/why...ds/story-e6frfkvr-1225907045950#ixzz0x0F3wpNc


And c'mon! She can go outside for coffee and a cig, but not to get milk?
She really is making herself look worse, imo. People would be much more sympathetic if she wasn't continually in hiding and making excuses.

And I'm not sure I like the idea that Mr Smith was allegedly out there searching at some point. I don't think family members should ever be allowed to take part in search efforts unless they are with a police officer or detective...but who knows, he may have been .
JMO
 
butwhatif? said:
This is the bit I like:

As the end of the third week since Kiesha disappearance loomed, Insp Oxford said: "We will find what has happened to this young girl, I'm confident of that."


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/why...ds/story-e6frfkvr-1225907045950#ixzz0x0F3wpNc


And c'mon! She can go outside for coffee and a cig, but not to get milk?
She really is making herself look worse, imo. People would be much more sympathetic if she wasn't continually in hiding and making excuses.

And I'm not sure I like the idea that Mr Smith was allegedly out there searching at some point. I don't think family members should ever be allowed to take part in search efforts unless they are with a police officer or detective...but who knows, he may have been .
JMO
Click to expand...

I think post partum depression is a viable motive in this case. It’s possible Kristi was suffering from post partum depression after the birth of her son Levi and because she didn't seek professional help, she targeted her eldest daughter to rid herself of the responsibility of getting her to school 5 days of the week on time.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
I think post partum depression is a viable motive in this case. It’s possible Kristi was suffering from post partum depression after the birth of her son Levi and because she didn't seek professional help, she targeted her eldest daughter to rid herself of the responsibility of getting her to school 5 days of the week on time.
Click to expand...

Makes sense, except Kiesha had only been to school for 5 days out of the entire year. Our school year starts January. So in 8 months, she only attended 5 days. My DD has had less absences than that for the year!

So unless she had some type of pre partum depression, it just doesn't fit.

But I do believe the woman needs help.

I wonder if when Kiesha was taken away from her for the bite mark, if Kristi had to attend any parenting courses, or get councelling. That's the way it normally works before they return the child.
Since the bite was when Kiesha was around 18mths old, it seems Kristi has been 'troubled' for quite a long time.
 
Tempers flare as search continues for Kiesha

Yesterday, it could be seen in the heated confrontation between a friend of the family and a member of the public outside the unit.

Detective Inspector Oxford said her parents had decided not to join in the search effort or yesterday's public appeal for information because they felt under siege from the media.

''They're obviously anxious to help, they're anxious for information, and I think their absence from here is … nothing should be drawn [from] that,'' he said.

Police said they may return to search the area later.

Seven kilometres down the road, police divers yesterday joined in at the end of a three-day search of the 90-hectare Nurragingy Reserve at Doonside.
Click to expand...

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/tempers-flare-as-search-continues-for-kiesha-20100818-12f8r.html

So looks like the official search is back off again.
And another psychic from the south coast has joined the search efforts.
Where are you Kiesha?
 
Mrs G Norris said:
.....and the discovery by the psychic we thought was possibly related to this case earlier on has lead to an arrest there http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...ey-womans-murder/story-e6frfkvr-1225907096144
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Wow! That was a pretty fast arrest! Glad they got the guy (and woman). It's scary how many horrific crimes are happening in the area atm. (just today a dead baby was found in a shoebox in strathfield and we have another missing girl aged 8 yrs who disappeared on her way to school)

Back to Kiesha, I don't understand why they wrapped up the search, when a patch of the area had not been cleared by LE/ SES searchers....It was left up to the new psychic to search. WTH? :waitasec:
 
butwhatif? said:
Makes sense, except Kiesha had only been to school for 5 days out of the entire year. Our school year starts January. So in 8 months, she only attended 5 days. My DD has had less absences than that for the year!

So unless she had some type of pre partum depression, it just doesn't fit.

But I do believe the woman needs help.

I wonder if when Kiesha was taken away from her for the bite mark, if Kristi had to attend any parenting courses, or get councelling. That's the way it normally works before they return the child.
Since the bite was when Kiesha was around 18mths old, it seems Kristi has been 'troubled' for quite a long time.
Click to expand...

Loosing her first born child must have been pretty rough on Kristi. Hopefully there was no foul play involved on the part of the parents. If there was, Kristi must be extremely nervous now that Detective Inspector Russell Oxford announced that looking at the death of the first child to see exactly what happened will be part of the investigation.

There is nothing in the media reports to indicate Kristi was ordered to take parenting classes or go into therapy.

<snipped>
A SPOKESMAN for the NSW Coroner has confirmed an investigation into the 2002 death of the six-week-old brother of Kiesha Abrahams found nothing suspicious. The comments follow yesterday's confirmation by Homicide detectives they would look at the case of the baby Aiden Abrahams who died in 2002 from an apparent cot death, reported the ABC. Aiden was the first child of Kristi Abrahams and Chris Weippeart and was born about 16 months before the couple's second child Kiesha. "Looking at the death of the first child to see exactly what happened will be part of the investigation," Detective Inspector Russell Oxford said.

http://www.news.com.au/national/hom...ms/story-e6frfkvr-1225902770065#ixzz0w1ehONel
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/hom...ms/story-e6frfkvr-1225902770065#ixzz0x1qKWWCK

<snipped>
The NSW Ombudsman's office has announced it will investigate the role of government agencies in the child's protection. It is an unusual move, as previous inquiries have occurred only after a child had been found dead. The inquiry follows reports that at least three government departments - Community Services, Health and Education - had been involved with the girl. The Ombudsman, Bruce Barbour, called for details of all files held by government departments. He said that in the light of concerns raised in recent days, he would be conducting inquiries into relevant activities by key agencies before the child's disappearance. In the two key cases that led up to the 2008 Wood special commission on child protection services - that of Dean Shillingworth and the one involving the child known only as Ebony - both cases emerged only once the child had died. The Herald reported yesterday that Kiesha had previously been removed from, and then returned, to her mother.

http://nqr.farmonline.com.au/news/m...here-is-kieshas-body/1905968.aspx?storypage=3

<snipped>
Her comments follow statements by Mr Weippeart that Kiesha had been bitten by an adult. Channel Nine reported last night that her mother, Kristi Abrahams, had been charged with assault over the incident, but had no conviction recorded against her.

In the video included in the link below, an eye witness claims he saw a man walk into the bush with a child Kiesha’s age on Saturday, the day before her mother reported her missing. Altho he didn't say what time he saw the two enter the woods, it must have been daylight.

<snipped>
Ms Marshall also complains that Ms Abrahams was misrepresented in a television interview arranged through the assistance of Paul Teerman, an Aboriginal liaison officer at Penrith court and an acquaintance of Ms Abrahams's family. ''She's been [wrongly] tarnished as a bad mother, a substance abuser and all this stuff,'' Ms Marshall said. ''The point never got across the way she wanted it to. She got really intimidated when the camera was on. ''Perhaps so. But Ms Marshall also denies Kiesha's admission to hospital, when she was about 18 months old, for treatment to an adult's bite to her shoulder. Ms Abrahams was charged with that assault but no conviction was recorded.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/little-girl-lost-and-a-city-searches-for-answers-20100806-11oii.html
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-c...r-20100805-11kt2.html?from=age_ft&autostart=1

<snipped>
When asked about the day Kiesha was hospitalised after receiving a serious bite wound, Mr Weippeart said he remembered it vividly. "I'll never forget seeing that. She was about 18 or 19 months ... it [the bite] was on the shoulder, through her clothing," he said. "It was so bad ... there was blood under the skin."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...iological-father/story-e6freuzi-1225901359892
 
Bluesky#1 said:
Loosing her first born child must have been pretty rough on Kristi. Hopefully there was no foul play involved on the part of the parents. If there was, Kristi must be extremely nervous now that Detective Inspector Russell Oxford announced that looking at the death of the first child to see exactly what happened will be part of the investigation.

There is nothing in the media reports to indicate Kristi was ordered to take parenting classes or go into therapy.
Click to expand...

Respectfully snipped~
BBM
I'm just speaking from personal experience. When my sister had her kids removed from her by DoCS (in the same area kiesha lives in), and I became their foster parent, she had to complete parenting courses before her children would be returned. (and her kids were neglected, not abused)

She failed to attend some, and had to start over.She also had to see a therapist, but she lied through her teeth. I know because I was there sitting right next to her for the appt. :banghead:

Even though her partner was out of the picture at the time the children were removed from her care, they got back together, and he also had to complete the parenting classes before they could go back to the home.

The classes didn't help my sister one bit, but her partner got something out of it. He's been a single dad to them for years now.
 
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