GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
SouthAussie said:
Fake, fake, fake, fake ... feel like I'm watching a pantomime. "Here, let me pick these bits off your face, how do I look? Are they filming? Let's have a smooch."

She doesn't look concerned or personally invested in his court dramas at all. Not sure what they are trying to prove - but they certainly do not portray a united family who is concerned about the upcoming lengthy jail term of SG. Just taking a stroll along the street on a nice Spring day. I wonder in what capacity he has known her for the previous 5 years? 'Friend', indeed!

All my opinion only.
Click to expand...

Nothing more than a performance...they would have been well aware all cameras were focused directly on them. No academy award though as the acting is very poor quality indeed.
 
FigTree said:
Great comparison.
The footage of him with his hand over her mouth and forcibly controlling her is haunting. He is angry.
And his actions and behaviour in the footage don't convince me that this is a person who has just witnessed someone (his partner) committing suicide.
As for the pictures of him (in todays paper) kissing his new girlfriend - no words :banghead:
Click to expand...

BBM

I agree FigTree. And add the above to the words from one of the witnesses. What normal person would stand back & watch on from a distance.

24 Oct 2013

He told the court he then saw a man, who he believed to be the same person he'd seen on the balcony, exit the building.

The man observed what was going on from a distance, before moving to speak to the group trying to assist the person on the ground, Mr Rathmell said.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/10/24/witness-thought-screams-were-junkie
 
Simon Gittany captured on CCTV footage in a highly-agitated state minutes after his fiancee plunged to her death from a Sydney apartment

NOVEMBER 02, 2013

"THROWING his hands in the air and clawing at his face, Simon Gittany was in a feverish state in the minutes after his fiancee plunged to her death from a Sydney apartment building.

A security camera captured Gittany, in pyjamas, throwing up his arms, running his hands over his face and through his hair as he stood alone in the lift to the lobby."

Read more: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...sydney-apartment/story-fni0cx4q-1226751362531
 
Makes me wonder how much premeditation of violence there was in SG's mind that fateful night/day. Inside cameras were off, so didn't film any fighting/violence inside the apartment (and neighbours said they heard loud arguing/fighting). External hall camera was on - because he didn't expect the violence to trickle out into the hallway?

And running back to put his shirt on (and do what else in that 33 secs? Takes about a second or two to throw a tshirt on) after he initially left the apartment following Lisa being tossed off the balcony .. did he have scratch marks on his torso from Lisa trying to defend herself? Same applies for looking in the elevator mirror .. checking to see if she had scratched his face too?
 
enzeder said:
Simon Gittany captured on CCTV footage in a highly-agitated state minutes after his fiancee plunged to her death from a Sydney apartment

NOVEMBER 02, 2013

"THROWING his hands in the air and clawing at his face, Simon Gittany was in a feverish state in the minutes after his fiancee plunged to her death from a Sydney apartment building.

A security camera captured Gittany, in pyjamas, throwing up his arms, running his hands over his face and through his hair as he stood alone in the lift to the lobby."

Read more: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...sydney-apartment/story-fni0cx4q-1226751362531
Click to expand...

Do you know what I was reminded of when I watched the elevator behaviour? ...
... of some irresponsible guy who has just back-ended a Rolls Royce with his WRX and isn't insured who insists its the RR drivers fault and now the Police are about to turn up.
Oh, I forgot to add - 'cleaning out the glove box' before the cops arrive.
His fiance has just fallen from an horrific height!
Its not a small bingle at the traffic lights or something that can be fixed.
Its more than a bit of an inconvenience.

Who cares what T-shirt you're wearing and how the hair looks.
As for the hands flaying - and 'concern' bend ....
Calculation - egotism - and irresponsibility.
 
marlywings said:
BBM

I agree FigTree. And add the above to the words from one of the witnesses. What normal person would stand back & watch on from a distance.

24 Oct 2013

He told the court he then saw a man, who he believed to be the same person he'd seen on the balcony, exit the building.

The man observed what was going on from a distance, before moving to speak to the group trying to assist the person on the ground, Mr Rathmell said.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/10/24/witness-thought-screams-were-junkie
Click to expand...


And you'd do this, too, if it were your loved one .... right? :rolleyes:


''He was kneeling and poking her head,'' Ms Cornish said, gesturing to the middle of her forehead.
''He was poking her in a very unusual manner, to the point that the doctor asked him to back off, asked him to move back so he could work on her.''

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/witness-h...g-body-fall-20131024-2w327.html#ixzz2jRZDsvXs


I might gently poke at a seemingly dead object if it were a poisonous snake or poisonous spider, to see if it responded. But any other non-dangerous living creature, I wouldn't be poking at it .. I would be trying to make it comfortable, stroking it, holding it's hand, letting it know someone cared .....

And if it were a loved one, I would be saying 'I love you, hang on, help is coming, I love you' .... because, if they were dying and their spirit/energy was leaving their body, the very last thing I'd want them to hear is how much they are loved.
 
SouthAussie said:
Makes me wonder how much premeditation of violence there was in SG's mind that fateful night/day. Inside cameras were off, so didn't film any fighting/violence inside the apartment (and neighbours said they heard loud arguing/fighting). External hall camera was on - because he didn't expect the violence to trickle out into the hallway?

And running back to put his shirt on (and do what else in that 33 secs? Takes about a second or two to throw a tshirt on) after he initially left the apartment following Lisa being tossed off the balcony .. did he have scratch marks on his torso from Lisa trying to defend herself? Same applies for looking in the elevator mirror .. checking to see if she had scratched his face too?
Click to expand...

Yes, I wondered if there had been any physical marks as well.
 
SOURCE: SMH Read More...
The note:
A police officer said he had pieced together a ripped-up note that had been retrieved from Lisa Harnum's jeans pocket after she died.

The note read: ''There are surveillance cameras inside and outside the house.''

729note-620x349.jpg

Police found a note on the body of Lisa Harnum. Photo: Supplied

I wonder what the note was about, and where the rest of it is.
It looks like other writing has also transferred onto the paper - though I'm not sure if the transferred writing is the correct way around for a folded over piece of paper.
The pen type, and paper type is interesting. White on gold/brown? Looks like invitation stationary or an envelope. And the lettering looks to be in a silver gel pen.
I wonder why it was torn up and found on her.
When, I also wonder did she change into these clothes? That morning?
Is this Lisa's handwriting?
Hope the Police have more to say on the matter.
.
 
EveD said:
I feel I need to make a comment here, and it is totally unrelated to whether I think SG is guilty or not.

If I was to just see that footage (NOT including the part with Lisa) and did not know any background, I would not find that footage damning nor his behaviour that 'strange'. I unfortunately have been a witness to a suicide and all I can say is what you think you would do, and what you actually do may be 2 different things. I am not surprised at all that he put a shirt on because in hindsight, with what I know of how I was/wasn't thinking at the time, I probably would have done the same.

Not defending him, but just saying it is such a surreal situation you just do not know how anyone will react if/when it happens. As I said - this is NOT saying he is NOT guilty, just that that particular behaviour is not unreasonable I don't think.
Click to expand...

Hi Eve,

Thanks for this and I'm sorry you've been through such a terrible experience.

I guess what was striking me as odd was the incongruity of certain actions. The standing very still while awaiting the doors to open - that seems at odds with the rest of his behaviour.

Unfortunately I get to bear witness to far too much grief. Mostly, and I wear this generalisation as my own experience only - people stick to one particular affect or expression of grief at a time, not gyrate rapidly between them. This video is short. The range of affect large.

Calm and despondent tends to last a while.

I guess for me the mirror part was what sat as "wrong" - and in thinking about that, the pseudoseizures similarity popped to the forefront of my mind.

Not stating I'm right - just throwing my opinion out there.
 
icu nurse said:
The standing very still while awaiting the doors to open - that seems at odds with the rest of his behaviour.
Click to expand...

I will watch it again more closely later, but i will make the comment that when everyone else sees him 'standing still' in front of the doors and interprets that as 'composed' - I could totally relate to that moment of (let's make the assumption of innocence for arguments sake) apparent composure as more of an attempt to 'keep it together' - as in 'take a DEEP BREATH and get your 'strength' before you have to face whatever it is you are about to face'. As I watched that portion of the video (elevator scene) I could imagine/recall the stress/shock/horror and when he went still before the doors opened I thought to myself 'that would be trying to get some strength or courage to deal with what you are about to see'. Of course that is how I see it and not saying that is what he experienced, but his actions rang true with me.

Once again, I am not saying that he is or isnt guilty - and I certainly do not think that he and Lisa had a 'healthy relationship' or that he was a very nice man. However me being me, i just had to make the comment that things are not always as they seem (and that everyone is different and every situation is different) BUT in a similar situation I know for a fact that my own behaviour appeared very composed and maybe even callous from some people's point of view - but it was my way of coping with a traumatic and surreal situation - but inside I was going from panic to disbelief to anger, fear, horror and totally overwhelmed all at the same time.

To me, what would be MORE TELLING would be his psychological state in the next 12 (or more) months.

Having said that has got me thinking.....off on another tangent.

If the charge is murder - does there have to be a degree of 'pre-meditation'? If it was a fit of rage and an spontaneous act, would that make the charges any different - manslaughter maybe? Do they (whoever lays charges) automatically go with murder over manslaughter in cases like this? Just wondering.

ICU nurse - pseudo seizures - as in people faking grand-mal seizures? or seizures that are not caused by neurological issues? Are they a common?
 
EveD said:
I will watch it again more closely later, but i will make the comment that when everyone else sees him 'standing still' in front of the doors and interprets that as 'composed' - I could totally relate to that moment of (let's make the assumption of innocence for arguments sake) apparent composure as more of an attempt to 'keep it together' - as in 'take a DEEP BREATH and get your 'strength' before you have to face whatever it is you are about to face'. As I watched that portion of the video (elevator scene) I could imagine/recall the stress/shock/horror and when he went still before the doors opened I thought to myself 'that would be trying to get some strength or courage to deal with what you are about to see'. Of course that is how I see it and not saying that is what he experienced, but his actions rang true with me.

Once again, I am not saying that he is or isnt guilty - and I certainly do not think that he and Lisa had a 'healthy relationship' or that he was a very nice man. However me being me, i just had to make the comment that things are not always as they seem (and that everyone is different and every situation is different) BUT in a similar situation I know for a fact that my own behaviour appeared very composed and maybe even callous from some people's point of view - but it was my way of coping with a traumatic and surreal situation - but inside I was going from panic to disbelief to anger, fear, horror and totally overwhelmed all at the same time.

To me, what would be MORE TELLING would be his psychological state in the next 12 (or more) months.

Having said that has got me thinking.....off on another tangent.

If the charge is murder - does there have to be a degree of 'pre-meditation'? If it was a fit of rage and an spontaneous act, would that make the charges any different - manslaughter maybe? Do they (whoever lays charges) automatically go with murder over manslaughter in cases like this? Just wondering.

ICU nurse - pseudo seizures - as in people faking grand-mal seizures? or seizures that are not caused by neurological issues? Are they a common?
Click to expand...

I find it really hard to even follow this thread due to my anger at SG - who epitomises the abusive male in every domestic violence case I've ever worked with. He physically isolated her, psychologically controlled her etc etc.......and then it appears as if it spilled over into murder.

But I just felt I had to comment here - when you wonder about his psychological state over the next 12 months EveD, I say - with great respect to you :) - look at his psychological state right now.

His behaviour is extremely telling. He appears unfazed by being charged with murder, acts carefree, canoodles with a new girlfriend as if nothing has happened. This is not the behaviour of a man devastated by his fiancé's suicide. At all. JMO :twocents:
 
Isisrising said:
I find it really hard to even follow this thread due to my anger at SG - who epitomises the abusive male in every domestic violence case I've ever worked with. He physically isolated her, psychologically controlled her etc etc.......and then it appears as if it spilled over into murder.

But I just felt I had to comment here - when you wonder about his psychological state over the next 12 months EveD, I say - with great respect to you :) - look at his psychological state right now.

His behaviour is extremely telling. He appears unfazed by being charged with murder, acts carefree, canoodles with a new girlfriend as if nothing has happened. This is not the behaviour of a man devastated by his fiancé's suicide. At all. JMO :twocents:
Click to expand...

BBM - Likewise Irisrising.

Regarding his 'performance' in the lift I somehow suspect that he knew very well that there was a surveillance camera recording his every move on the trip down to the ground. I'll leave it at that. :wink:

IMO
 
I agree, Isisrising....which is why I made that comment. A 'suicide survivor' - including one who has broken up with a partner - in fact ESPECIALLY one who had just broken up with a partner - is likely to feel wrecked with guilt and all sorts of emotions even when their behaviour has NOT contributed to the deceased's actions...only someone emotionally 'impaired' could not be affected. I know for ME, there is no way I could have got 'over it' and on with my life as is nothing happened within 12 months of the event.

I just felt that it needed to be said that the footage from the elevator in itself was not damning in my opinion; but there is a lot of other behaviour that is.
 
enzeder said:
BBM - Likewise Irisrising.

Regarding his 'performance' in the lift I somehow suspect that he knew very well that there was a surveillance camera recording his every move on the trip down to the ground. I'll leave it at that. :wink:

IMO
Click to expand...

I think this horribly controlling and abusive person has said to Lisa ‘the only way you are leaving this apartment is over that balcony’ and when she ran out screaming for help he has dragged her back inside and done exactly that – had her ‘leave’ via the balcony.

Since then he has been winging it … trying to make his witnessed actions, both in the hallway and on the balcony, fit some implausible story that she committed suicide before her mother arrived to help her leave him.

He should have let her quietly go, with the promise that she would never tell how it was he made enough buckets of money ‘delivering health products’ to live in such very expensive accommodation, while he also emotionally/verbally/physically abused and controlled her 24/7.


And, enzeder, I'll leave it at that :wink:
(Little joke from the Jennifer Ramsaran thread, from alleged murdering husband Ganesh Ramsaran.)
 
One more strange thing .... if Lisa was voluntarily jumping to her death, why on earth would she take her handbag with her?? Be a bit awkward hurriedly climbing over a high glass balcony enclosure/railing before your boyfriend could 'stop' you - or leaping over it ballerina-style :rolleyes: - with your handbag dangling off your arm.

IMO she had her handbag with her because she did what her mum told her to do. Grabbed her handbag/purse and her passport (unless he took that from her), rushed out the door screaming for help, then got dragged back inside, and was thrown to her death.

(ETA: Article says passport was found near the door, with a suitcase .. IMO he may have taken it, then placed it there in the 33 secs he was inside 'putting on a tshirt'. In my experience, if you carry your passport you carry it in your handbag.)

MOR-20lisa-20harnum-20handbag-20131101162423714201-300x0.jpg


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/video-rev...at-simon-gittany-did-next-20131101-2wq4h.html


"I told her if things got really bad, just to grab her passport and purse and get out, that her things don't matter," Mrs Harnum told the court.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...return-to-canada/story-fnjbnxuj-1226744657906
 
SouthAussie said:
One more strange thing .... if Lisa was voluntarily jumping to her death, why on earth would she take her handbag with her?? Be a bit awkward hurriedly climbing over a high glass balcony enclosure/railing before your boyfriend could 'stop' you - or leaping over it ballerina-style :rolleyes: - with your handbag dangling off your arm.

IMO she had her handbag with her because she did what her mum told her to do. Grabbed her handbag/purse and her passport (unless he took that from her), rushed out the door screaming for help, then got dragged back inside, and was thrown to her death.

(ETA: Article says passport was found near the door, with a suitcase .. IMO he may have taken it, then placed it there in the 33 secs he was inside 'putting on a tshirt'. In my experience, if you carry your passport you carry it in your handbag.)

MOR-20lisa-20harnum-20handbag-20131101162423714201-300x0.jpg


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/video-rev...at-simon-gittany-did-next-20131101-2wq4h.html


"I told her if things got really bad, just to grab her passport and purse and get out, that her things don't matter," Mrs Harnum told the court.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.a...return-to-canada/story-fnjbnxuj-1226744657906
Click to expand...

BBM

Lisa's handbag was found near her body SouthAussie. As you posted, and I ask myself the same question, "if Lisa was voluntarily jumping to her death, why on earth would she take her handbag with her??"

"Lisa Harnum made a desperate attempt to leave her fiance but was dragged back from the door, past the purple suitcase she had packed and the passport which was to free her."

Mr Gittany is then seen running out of the lift through the foyer towards the street where his dead fiancee lies. Nearby is her black handbag.
Click to expand...
Attached Image: Lisa Harnum's handbag, found near her body after she fell 15 floors from a Sydney building on July 30, 2011. Photo: Supplied

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/video-rev...ny-did-next-20131101-2wq4h.html#ixzz2jXd3VvSE
 

Attachments

  • Handbag.jpg
    Handbag.jpg
    59.1 KB · Views: 10
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 138 more.
Total: 2,141 (members: 139, guests: 2,002)

Online statistics

Members online
139
Guests online
2,002
Total visitors
2,141
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
601,781
Messages
18,129,768
Members
231,141
Latest member
Little boston
Back
Top