GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, it probably is a rat. I know the Defence Lawyer has a job to do, but gee whiz, I can't help wondering what he's REALLY thinking.
 
Just read the NY Daily News article, I agree with the last comment 'DENTON'. Thanks for posting it SouthAussie!
 
enzeder said:
Thank you so very much Joshua Rathmell for coming forward and telling the police what you witnessed on that day.

Video: Police interview with Joshua Rathmell
http://video.news.com.au/v/139415/Police-interview-with-Joshua-Rathwell
Click to expand...

Thank you Joshua Rathmell for coming forward in this matter so grave. Your evidence here may be critical to the outcome of this trial.
Joshua was alerted by the screaming from the balcony. I take it that means female screams? Though later Joshua speaks of a male screaming as though on some type of substance. Or Manic?
My horrible thoughts at these words (though I may have mistaken his words) that Lisa was screaming in terror as she was threatened with being dumped from the balcony. That is the reason he looked up.
She was quite possibly frozen stiff in terror as her fate became apparent. Hence the stillness of the "luggage" soon to be relieved from his arms.
Apologies for being so graphic, the thoughts have been playing over in my mind. (Horribly like a live video picture)
Had she been rendered unconscious by the stranglehold, she would not have been able to scream when Joshua heard her. He then looked up, and thus witnessed the event.
The bumps on the way down sounds like hitting objects during her fall. Not that SC cared enough to watch.
That picture, I might add, comes in direct conflict with the accused's version of events. (Any version of them)
There's one thing worse than a Liar. That is a Barrister or Lawyer or person in high office having no understanding of a malignant narcissistic sociopath or their capabilities. Strickland, I hope you read this.
 
Another thought; what's with the pouting lips etc, The public passive show having his tie arranged by a "beautiful" woman whose eyes may not look past his own ? Does he think he is some kind of Sex Siren or something? Siren: each of a number of women or winged creatures whose singing lured unwary sailors on to rocks.
Or have I got that mixed up "catering to high end athletes. "
High end athletes. Or High End strippers?
Please may someone explain the meaning of this "work" which apparently pays very highly.
 
This trial seems to have been ongoing for months not three weeks. I can't begin to imagine how long it must seem for Lisa's mum. Here's hoping Justice Lucy comes back with her verdict soon!!

In the meantime, while we wait for that verdict, some of you may be interested in this case. The brutal bashing of 35yr old Shey Webber in Victoria. It's horrific!! :(

I opened a thread for it earlier.

Aus-Vic -Shey Webber,35,brutally beaten Nov 6th,2013, in a coma fighting for her life - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
LadyBird1 said:
Another thought; what's with the pouting lips etc, The public passive show having his tie arranged by a "beautiful" woman whose eyes may not look past his own ? Does he think he is some kind of Sex Siren or something? Siren: each of a number of women or winged creatures whose singing lured unwary sailors on to rocks.
Or have I got that mixed up "catering to high end athletes. "
High end athletes. Or High End strippers?
Please may someone explain the meaning of this "work" which apparently pays very highly.
Click to expand...

BBM

The guy in the video, talking about SG, said - "Gittany, a high end caterer to athletes". I have never heard of such a job description. I'd say that whatever line of work he's in it's most likely something shady. Lisa didn't even know what he did for a living. imo

"Ms Harnum didn't know what her fiance did for a living or where he went when he went out, the court heard."
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/10/23/13/03/balcony-death-fiance-made-deport-threats

My original post with the link to the video. Hope the link still works. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/11/06/12/36/lisa-felt-in-imminent-danger-court-hears
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AUSTRALIA - Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder
 
marlywings said:
This trial seems to have been ongoing for months not three weeks. I can't begin to imagine how long it must seem for Lisa's mum. Here's hoping Justice Lucy comes back with her verdict soon!!

In the meantime, while we wait for that verdict, some of you may be interested in this case. The brutal bashing of 35yr old Shey Webber in Victoria. It's horrific!! :(

I opened a thread for it earlier.

Aus-Vic -Shey Webber,35,brutally beaten Nov 6th,2013, in a coma fighting for her life - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Click to expand...

Oh, I did read about that case online the other day but got side tracked with this one.
 
mirage1 said:
So this guy clearly witnesses a murder, and does not report it to anyone and just heads off to work? That is astonishing, and very hard to understand..
Click to expand...

.......and how many times have you had to witness such a horrific act? Have you ever been in such a position? How would you act?
 
mirage1 said:
So this guy clearly witnesses a murder, and does not report it to anyone and just heads off to work? That is astonishing, and very hard to understand..
Click to expand...

So this guy witnesses a murder, notes that the person who dumped the body is standing not too far from him acting in a very strange manner. There are not a whole lot of people about at this time and any one of these people MAY be a witness to the event. Might tell all. A witness might even hold the key to his getting away with it. Although agitated, the person who discarded the "luggage" is sober enough to be poking Lisa's head when others are trying to resuscitate her. Was he preparing to finish her off if necessary? What ELSE is this person such as this capable of?
Not only has Joshua witnessed what appears to be a murder, he was almost rubbing shoulders with a monster. This same monster may or may not be high on drugs, he may be a lunatic or insane, he may be anything. Not many minutes before, this monster was screaming violently.
Need to tread very carefully Joshua. Above all, stay alive and be a good, strong, clear minded and reliable witness.
 
Thanks South Aussie for the New York Daily News article:http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.1491930

It offers a succinct coverage of a chilling crime. Comments indicate that many in NY have similar opinions, that is, question why Gittany was 'out on Bail', query the motives pf the current gf, warning her to 'get out', hope that he will be jailed for life and comparison with the Oscar Pistorius alleged murder of his gf.
 
LadyBird1 said:
So this guy witnesses a murder, notes that the person who dumped the body is standing not too far from him acting in a very strange manner. There are not a whole lot of people about at this time and any one of these people MAY be a witness to the event. Might tell all. A witness might even hold the key to his getting away with it. Although agitated, the person who discarded the "luggage" is sober enough to be poking Lisa's head when others are trying to resuscitate her. Was he preparing to finish her off if necessary? What ELSE is this person such as this capable of?
Not only has Joshua witnessed what appears to be a murder, he was almost rubbing shoulders with a monster. This same monster may or may not be high on drugs, he may be a lunatic or insane, he may be anything. Not many minutes before, this monster was screaming violently.
Need to tread very carefully Joshua. Above all, stay alive and be a good, strong, clear minded and reliable witness.
Click to expand...

Welll said Ladybird. He may have realised within minutes that he had just seen a murder. He then witnessed the same man [he had heard screeming like an ice affected addict moments before, the same man he had seen shirtless on the balcony unload luggage over the balcony], come out of the doors of the Hyde and stand nearby, that is, the murderer!

IMO Josh was wise to quietly return to his place of work, then call the Police to report what he had seen.
 
mirage1 said:
So this guy clearly witnesses a murder, and does not report it to anyone and just heads off to work? That is astonishing, and very hard to understand..
Click to expand...

Joshua Rathwell described what he perceived 'a deranged ice junkie on a bender' unloading some luggage. His line of sight of the pavement was obstructed by buses. Only when he spoke to some workers further on they confirmed it was a body, there were people crowding around trying to resuscitate, he stayed for several minuted & then proceeded to work. I'M SURE HE WAS IN SHOCK.
If there were people there all helping and he saw 'the ice junkie' there on the pavement pacing around at a distance from the body, I think I would have had reservations of entering into the incident. I don't think I would have walked over & started screaming 'that's him! I saw you throw her off the balcony!' The city is a strange place & under some conditions it's better not to get involved. It's sad but you never know what you may encounter. In hindsight you have 20/20 vision & Joshua Rathwell is my hero. I just hope & pray he's not experiencing after shock & his efforts help with the Harnums' pursuit of justice.
 
sleepinoz said:
Don't know if I missed it - but was there ever an autopsy report presented to the court?

I ask because I think she was already deceased before he threw her over the balcony - I think she could have been suffocated or even had her neck broken from the hold he had on her, hence no scratch marks or any sign of her defending herself.
Click to expand...

From my perspective (based on seeing many multi-traumas - including a woman who was attacked with a samurai sword before jumping off a second storey balcony to escape the attack) it's nearly impossible to seperate all the injuries from the fall to those that preceded it.

The obvious ones in that case could be extracted as defensive wounds to her arms due to the different mechanism of injury (the blade) but fractures that individual incurred would not be able to be definitively proven as being caused pre, or resulting from, the fall.

I guess if there had been a different gap of time between lisa being last seen alive (ie the video) and being found below it may be possible to show that injuries occurred, or even death occurred earlier. But 69 seconds isn't a great deal of time for differentiation, and so the theory that her neck was snapped as a result of the headlock and subsequently (with a theory of a C1/C2 fracture and cord severing) was deceased before she went over would be impossible to differentiate with the tight timeframe, and could be attributed to the fall.

Equally, coagulopathy and the rigior/livor mortis processes wouldn't be identifiable. Yes, typically bleeding would be minimal if there was no longer any cardiac output, but the sheer force of the impact so close in the timeline - well, it would be pretty much impossible to differentiate still.

I'm sorry for being so gruesome here. Edit me if you need to Marly!

I just think that the possibility of her having died earlier will always remain a theory without other video evidence emerging - as the time window is too small for all our CSI science to play a part.
 
Folks the discussion about the girlfriend has gone over the line hence I've removed quite a few posts.

Please keep in mind she is not the one on trial here. If there's info about her in MSM then it's fine to discuss. Anything outside of that is a :nono:
 
mirage1 said:
So this guy clearly witnesses a murder, and does not report it to anyone and just heads off to work? That is astonishing, and very hard to understand..
Click to expand...

I don't know. Some things take your time to get your head around.

Most sleuthers here from what I have seen are drawn here because we have had some sort of trauma of our own. Some sort of unanswered question. Something that keeps us awake at night. That's a generalisation of course, but my impression of what brings us together to seek truth and justice is a drive from our own past.

I'm not playing the sympathy bell here, but I need to outline something to make a point. I had an exceptionally turbulent and traumatic childhood. By 18 years of age I had been to 9 funerals of people directly close to me - not random great aunt Mildred, but people from my daily life.

My husband on the other hand has all grandparents still alive, even though he is 36. The biggest death he has had was last year when the puppy he grew up with passed away.

A few years ago we were first on the scene of a fatal car accident when driving interstate. Because of what I do professionally, I basically had him on the phone to 000 updating them on the situation, having him relay my requests for medstar activation and a paeds intensivist, while I worked on the victims.


For me, it was upsetting, tragic but I can sort of shrug and say **** happens. I feel so deeply for the families, but for work I need to have a detatchment

For him, it was the first time death had ever shown its face, and it literally took months for him to get over and move on from.

If it had been my husband that witnessed that - he would have been in shock, both from the event but also what emotions were crawling up.

I absolutely know he would have gone to work that day. Tried to avoid it. He wouldn't even know how to say to me "guess what I saw on the way to work today" - but he might give it up after some probing by me.

Then I would try to convince him to go to the police. He would downplay the importance of whT he saw, what it could mean. Eventually he would come around and do it.

But I can easily see it taking days not minutes to arrive at that point.

We sleuthers are strong, hardened by the harshness of life's experiences, and we also know the importance of information that may seem trivial.

Not everyone else does, so let's not judge a witness for taking time to come forward, let us commend the fact that he did.
 
marlywings said:
Folks the discussion about the girlfriend has gone over the line hence I've removed quite a few posts.

Please keep in mind she is not the one on trial here. If there's info about her in MSM then it's fine to discuss. Anything outside of that is a :nono:
Click to expand...

Sorry Marly!!! Got carried away!!!:blushing:
 
icu nurse said:
I don't know. Some things take your time to get your head around.

Most sleuthers here from what I have seen are drawn here because we have had some sort of trauma of our own. Some sort of unanswered question. Something that keeps us awake at night. That's a generalisation of course, but my impression of what brings us together to seek truth and justice is a drive from our own past.

I'm not playing the sympathy bell here, but I need to outline something to make a point. I had an exceptionally turbulent and traumatic childhood. By 18 years of age I had been to 9 funerals of people directly close to me - not random great aunt Mildred, but people from my daily life.

My husband on the other hand has all grandparents still alive, even though he is 36. The biggest death he has had was last year when the puppy he grew up with passed away.

A few years ago we were first on the scene of a fatal car accident when driving interstate. Because of what I do professionally, I basically had him on the phone to 000 updating them on the situation, having him relay my requests for medstar activation and a paeds intensivist, while I worked on the victims.


For me, it was upsetting, tragic but I can sort of shrug and say **** happens. I feel so deeply for the families, but for work I need to have a detatchment

For him, it was the first time death had ever shown its face, and it literally took months for him to get over and move on from.

If it had been my husband that witnessed that - he would have been in shock, both from the event but also what emotions were crawling up.

I absolutely know he would have gone to work that day. Tried to avoid it. He wouldn't even know how to say to me "guess what I saw on the way to work today" - but he might give it up after some probing by me.

Then I would try to convince him to go to the police. He would downplay the importance of whT he saw, what it could mean. Eventually he would come around and do it.

But I can easily see it taking days not minutes to arrive at that point.

We sleuthers are strong, hardened by the harshness of life's experiences, and we also know the importance of information that may seem trivial.

Not everyone else does, so let's not judge a witness for taking time to come forward, let us commend the fact that he did.
Click to expand...

Thanks ICU Nurse - that's a really helpful explanation. I too had been struggling with the fact that he carried on to work, but what you say makes sense. And absolutely, thank god he spoke up about it and didn't keep it to himself!!
 
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