Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[KiwiNZ]

they seem to want to go down the path of it not been Marion whom returned and I don't really understand why as I think more points to she did return than she didn't. Especially the visitor card and multiple visits to the bank, an imposter would not continually return to the same place for weeks on end steeling money, IMO.

I think the hard pill to swallow is that not only did Marion change her name and not tell her family, but she also returned to the country without making contact.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

they seem to want to go down the path of it not been Marion whom returned and I don't really understand why as I think more points to she did return than she didn't. Especially the visitor card and multiple visits to the bank, an imposter would not continually return to the same place for weeks on end steeling money, IMO.

I think the hard pill to swallow is that not only did Marion change her name and not tell her family, but she also returned to the country without making contact.

I agree. They got two handwriting experts involved and one said he couldn’t do it properly without more examples of marions handwriting and another expert says he believes it is marions. I think for memory they only gave them one example of marions handwriting. Surely Sally has a lot more examples and surely if they are being serious about getting it tested they would get A number of examples before getting it tested. Was sally just being selective and only putting forward an example that was least like the one on the passenger card?

 

[JLZ]

With both names on the passport, could Marion have booked her flights using either name, or would it have had to be the principal name ie Florabella?

 

[KiwiNZ]

With both names on the passport, could Marion have booked her flights using either name, or would it have had to be the principal name ie Florabella?

Her passport was Florabella she could only book in that name. For immigration the system holds all known names for you and is linked to your passport, but your previous name (s) is not printed on the passport only your current. Only immergration can see that information on their system, that is why whom ever gave Sally that information likely does not have a job now.

Airline tickets have to match the name in your passport, the airline has no access to immergration information or your previous names.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

sorry above didn't work

her is the pic of the cards

The slant of the writing looks different .....

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Does anyone know the authenticity of the “Box L51 Lennox Head” P.O. Box address used in the Remakel newspaper advert?
Is L51 an actual thing? I tried searching and I couldn’t find another L address (eg L15).

I can't comment on the existence of other L15 addresses, but the PO Box office in Lennox Head interestingly burned down the year after Marion went missing.
Landmarks Of Lennox - The Post Office - Lennox Wave News Magazine

 

[KiwiNZ]

The slant of the writing looks different .....

I am not a handwriting expert lol but it was the way the U S L I and are formed that did it for me. Also the first A is pointy at the top in both pics and the round when repeated. I do something similar when writing in uppercase my first letter if repeated is slightly different, as if to distinguish between what should be a capital and the rest .. not a conscious thing that I do.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Thanks, all for relaying these tidbits! from California follower who isn't on FB.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I can't comment on the existence of other L15 addresses, but the PO Box office in Lennox Head interestingly burned down the year after Marion went missing.
Landmarks Of Lennox - The Post Office - Lennox Wave News Magazine

Yes, how very curious that is ..... Remakel name linked to Lennox Head Post Office .... destroyed by arson 11 months after Medicare card used in Grafton ..... unsolved too if you don't mind. H'mm. Could that be when the villain in the piece left the country for good? Just a thought, or maybe just another red herring/coincidence tossed into the mix.
PS: I really would like a clue about the magazine in LA, can we have the initials of mag or perhaps shuffle the letters round for us to unscramble .... or maybe a bonus episode discussing said magazine. End of spontaneous greedy thoughts.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

they seem to want to go down the path of it not been Marion whom returned and I don't really understand why as I think more points to she did return than she didn't. Especially the visitor card and multiple visits to the bank, an imposter would not continually return to the same place for weeks on end steeling money, IMO.

I think the hard pill to swallow is that not only did Marion change her name and not tell her family, but she also returned to the country without making contact.

Another tricky hurdle to get over is the call from Byron Bay police saying Marion had been located. H'mm. But then again the file documenting that contact has apparently been lost ..... or, did it ever exist at all? If it was just that one phone call and no more contact, no follow up call from the police, then yes, it could have been fraudulent. But that would have to mean that Sally and her family were asking others outside the family about Marion's whereabouts in late October and the villain was one of those contacted, alerted to situation, and made the call to Sally ..... this is going on the scenario Marion never returned to Australia. Then you could get back into thinking someone in the bank was up to no good, or as I said, someone knew Sally was looking for her mum and made contact. Then again, there may have originally been a file explaining all about the police making contact with Marion, but alas has since mysteriously vanished. Oh, and then there's the stolen wallet situation ........... ughhhhhhhhh

 

[Garyb]

Her passport was Florabella she could only book in that name. For immigration the system holds all known names for you and is linked to your passport, but your previous name (s) is not printed on the passport only your current. Only immergration can see that information on their system, that is why whom ever gave Sally that information likely does not have a job now.

Airline tickets have to match the name in your passport, the airline has no access to immergration information or your previous names.

Just a thought, i wonder why Sallys friend in customs who told her that her mother had returned to Australia didnt mention the change of name? It must have been in the same records she checked.

I still think with Marions distinctive appearance (around the eyes nose area), it would be difficult for someone to get past the airline check in, British immigration at departure, then Australian officials at the Airport.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Just a thought, i wonder why Sallys friend in customs who told her that her mother had returned to Australia didnt mention the change of name? It must have been in the same records she checked.

good point - I wonder how that conversation played out.

I am guessing that if you enter into the system a persons name it retrieves all records. But you would think it would also link to the name florabella and that would be a topic of conversation. If you had already broke one privacy law why not break another.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Just a thought, i wonder why Sallys friend in customs who told her that her mother had returned to Australia didnt mention the change of name? It must have been in the same records she checked.

I still think with Marions distinctive appearance (around the eyes nose area), it would be difficult for someone to get past the airline check in, British immigration at departure, then Australian officials at the Airport.

Good point - I wonder how that conversation played out.

I am guessing that if you enter into the system a persons name it retrieves all records. But you would think it would also link to the name florabella and that would be a topic of conversation. If you had already broke one privacy law why not break another.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Another tricky hurdle to get over is the call from Byron Bay police saying Marion had been located. H'mm. But then again the file documenting that contact has apparently been lost ..... or, did it ever exist at all? If it was just that one phone call and no more contact, no follow up call from the police, then yes, it could have been fraudulent. But that would have to mean that Sally and her family were asking others outside the family about Marion's whereabouts in late October and the villain was one of those contacted, alerted to situation, and made the call to Sally ..... this is going on the scenario Marion never returned to Australia. Then you could get back into thinking someone in the bank was up to no good, or as I said, someone knew Sally was looking for her mum and made contact. Then again, there may have originally been a file explaining all about the police making contact with Marion, but alas has since mysteriously vanished. Oh, and then there's the stolen wallet situation ........... ughhhhhhhhh

I suspect the police phone call wasnt recorded. Not for any shady or sinister reason, I just think that with so much urgency around finding endangered missing persons the administration of a safe-but-estranged resolution may not have had priority and possibly been overlooked.
When Sally went to police her concern was logged as an 'occurance'. From what was said this sounds like a triage type activity, whereby theres some initial information gathering and then depending on the outcome, updated to reflect a specific type of activity and progressed to the appropriate division. As Marion was so quickly located and the family advised perhaps Sally's report wasnt ever anything beyond an occurance? This could be standard procedure, but I suspect it wasnt and the occurance should have been updated to a missing person enquiry with the location details entered. I have no idea how the process actually works but it makes sense for document management/retrieval. It would also explain the internal squabble in 2007 when AFP were left red-faced when they couldnt find a missing persons file for Marion.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I suspect the police phone call wasnt recorded. Not for any shady or sinister reason, I just think that with so much urgency around finding endangered missing persons the administration of a safe-but-estranged resolution may not have had priority and possibly been overlooked.
When Sally went to police her concern was logged as an 'occurance'. From what was said this sounds like a triage type activity, whereby theres some initial information gathering and then depending on the outcome, updated to reflect a specific type of activity and progressed to the appropriate division. As Marion was so quickly located and the family advised perhaps Sally's report wasnt ever anything beyond an occurance? This could be standard procedure, but I suspect it wasnt and the occurance should have been updated to a missing person enquiry with the location details entered. I have no idea how the process actually works but it makes sense for document management/retrieval. It would also explain the internal squabble in 2007 when AFP were left red-faced when they couldn't find a missing persons file for Marion.

In Australia, more than 38,000 missing persons reports are received by police each year.

If someone is "located" I don't think paper work etc.. is priority, not saying it shouldn't be, but the import thing is they are located, I can see how the loose ends are not always tighed up once someone is located. It is the very very rare events like this that the paperwork suddenly becomes important.

It is like when you religiously do something and you never need to refer to it, and then that one time you don't do something and it comes back to bite you. happens to me all the time.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I suspect the police phone call wasnt recorded. Not for any shady or sinister reason, I just think that with so much urgency around finding endangered missing persons the administration of a safe-but-estranged resolution may not have had priority and possibly been overlooked.
When Sally went to police her concern was logged as an 'occurance'. From what was said this sounds like a triage type activity, whereby theres some initial information gathering and then depending on the outcome, updated to reflect a specific type of activity and progressed to the appropriate division. As Marion was so quickly located and the family advised perhaps Sally's report wasnt ever anything beyond an occurance? This could be standard procedure, but I suspect it wasnt and the occurance should have been updated to a missing person enquiry with the location details entered. I have no idea how the process actually works but it makes sense for document management/retrieval. It would also explain the internal squabble in 2007 when AFP were left red-faced when they couldnt find a missing persons file for Marion.

Fair enough, good points Intrigued, maybe it was just logged as an occurrence, but I thought it had been said that bank statements and all sorts of bits and pieces of info had gone missing from that time ... where did those documents go that Sally physically handed them and the information she relayed to them, DOB etc. I mean, they must have been placed in a manila folder or something. What happened to that .... did it get tossed? It seems Gary started from scratch again ....

 

[Garyb]

In Australia, more than 38,000 missing persons reports are received by police each year.

If someone is "located" I don't think paper work etc.. is priority, not saying it shouldn't be, but the import thing is they are located, I can see how the loose ends are not always tighed up once someone is located. It is the very very rare events like this that the paperwork suddenly becomes important.

It is like when you religiously do something and you never need to refer to it, and then that one time you don't do something and it comes back to bite you. happens to me all the time.

Cant remember which episode, but they interviewed an ex policeman who was on duty at Byron Bay police station at about that time. Didnt he say that if someone was located shortly after being reported missing, they would just write "f" for found on the paper work.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Cant remember which episode, but they interviewed an ex policeman who was on duty at Byron Bay police station at about that time. Didnt he say that if someone was located shortly after being reported missing, they would just write "f" for found on the paper work.

I cant remember the conversation but would not surprise me, if they have 38K people report missing each year you don't want to be doing much paperwork when the person has been located, F would be sufficient in 99.9% of the cases.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Back to a question I asked a week or two ago which was answered but I believe that answer was wrong.

I had asked - How did the policeman or bank person who called Marion (when she got back from overseas) to verify her whereabouts get in contact with her?

Someone had said she had a mobile number but I believe on Facebook sally confirmed she didn’t have a mobile.

How do you think they got in contact with her with no fixed address?

Did they look up her credit card transaction and find the accommodation where she was staying?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Back to a question I asked a week or two ago which was answered but I believe that answer was wrong.

I had asked - How did the policeman or bank person who called Marion (when she got back from overseas) to verify her whereabouts get in contact with her?

Someone had said she had a mobile number but I believe on Facebook sally confirmed she didn’t have a mobile.

How do you think they got in contact with her with no fixed address?

Did they look up her credit card transaction and find the accommodation where she was staying?

from the FB page

Question -
Hello could you please confirm did Marion have a mobile phone before she left for the UK, or is it known if she had one after she returned (assuming it was her) and was that what the bank contacted her on ? thank you

Answer -

Marion had never had a mobile phone. The other two queries are not known as the last time Sally spoke to her Mum was the 1st Aug 97. It's also not known as to what ph no the bank rang, as Gary Sheehan stated just after Marion was put on the AFPMP register, that the Police had never spoken too, or sighted nor located Marion.

____________________________________end of FB post

I think if she was contacted she must have updated her mailing and contact details when she returned - would be good to know if the mail stopped going to Lesley's address at some stage and if that coincided with Marion's return. (I think I remember them saying her post was redirected to Lesley's while she was overseas) her bank statements must have been going somewhere ? if she had a credit card that would have held a lot of clues as to her movements.