Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[Loobyloo2]

The Mint in Rye England | Luxury Self Catering | Holiday ...
www.themintinrye.com The Mint in Rye is a celebration of medieval history, positioned on a quaint street in the very centre of the ancient citadel of Rye, East Sussex and only seconds ...

I would imagine that the last place your mother made a transaction was in Mint Street. The bank in Rye is at Longer House, High Street, Rye, East Sussex, TN31 7JL. Could the bank have picked up where she was staying maybe if that was where she last used the card.

 

[Loobyloo2]

The Mint in Rye England | Luxury Self Catering | Holiday ...
www.themintinrye.com The Mint in Rye is a celebration of medieval history, positioned on a quaint street in the very centre of the ancient citadel of Rye, East Sussex and only seconds ...

I would imagine that the last place your mother made a transaction was in Mint Street. The bank in Rye is at Longer House, High Street, Rye, East Sussex, TN31 7JL. Could the bank have picked up where she was staying maybe if that was where she last used the card.

 

[Loobyloo2]

I've been thinking about why Marion chose Luxembourg.

According to this article Luxembourg teachers are the highest paid of all OECD countries which suggests that teachers are highly valued in Lux.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3teuSo6EV4qwoVT6JvIwkO
I found another article which talks about the teaching structure in Lux state schools (called fundamental schools) and its very different to Australia. Lux schools are split into districts (called arrondissments). Each arrondissment has an inspector who is the heirarchial head of all the teachers at those schools. There is no heirarchial authority permanently present at any one school. This may have been a very attractive arrangement for Marion who had been having difficulties with the principle/administration at her last school.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.oecd.org/edu/school/OECD%20Reviews%20of%20Evaluation%20and%20Assessment%20in%20Education%20-%20Luxembourg.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiv5PGXqqjnAhVCXHwKHXYQDFgQFjAEegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1REo6dJdfRiHD-rINTluYx
In 1996/97 there were a couple of events which i doubt made news here but might have been discussed in teaching journals/publications. One was a Luxembourg government push to eliminate discrimination against women and the policies included significant pre-school educational initiatives. The second was a teachers union dispute regarding teaching contract arrangements and workloads.

Patrick Remakel is currently the head of the teachers union in Luxembourg. He is also a member of the national school board and president of the Hesperange school committee (Hesperange is a town/suburb in Luxemburg). According to this union flyer in 1997 Patrick was a teacher at Hesperange (state primary school) running the 'Welcome course'. I couldnt find reference to what the welcome course was (new teachers? Immigrants? Kindy/prep?).
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_fc_5CcclT4a6ZKjAcxBI

Luxembourg may have looked like a good place to look for work if Marion decided she would stay in the UK. She may have wanted a local sounding name on paper to help with her prospects of being hired. Keeping 'Marion' as a third name enabled her to plausibly still use it as her preferred name (face to face). Many women change their name after they divorce. Maybe Marion had been thinking of for sometime.

Patrick is also a tennis player https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/patrick-remakel/800135456/lux/jt/s/overview/

 

[Loobyloo2]

I've been thinking about why Marion chose Luxembourg.

According to this article Luxembourg teachers are the highest paid of all OECD countries which suggests that teachers are highly valued in Lux.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3teuSo6EV4qwoVT6JvIwkO
I found another article which talks about the teaching structure in Lux state schools (called fundamental schools) and its very different to Australia. Lux schools are split into districts (called arrondissments). Each arrondissment has an inspector who is the heirarchial head of all the teachers at those schools. There is no heirarchial authority permanently present at any one school. This may have been a very attractive arrangement for Marion who had been having difficulties with the principle/administration at her last school.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.oecd.org/edu/school/OECD%20Reviews%20of%20Evaluation%20and%20Assessment%20in%20Education%20-%20Luxembourg.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiv5PGXqqjnAhVCXHwKHXYQDFgQFjAEegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1REo6dJdfRiHD-rINTluYx
In 1996/97 there were a couple of events which i doubt made news here but might have been discussed in teaching journals/publications. One was a Luxembourg government push to eliminate discrimination against women and the policies included significant pre-school educational initiatives. The second was a teachers union dispute regarding teaching contract arrangements and workloads.

Patrick Remakel is currently the head of the teachers union in Luxembourg. He is also a member of the national school board and president of the Hesperange school committee (Hesperange is a town/suburb in Luxemburg). According to this union flyer in 1997 Patrick was a teacher at Hesperange (state primary school) running the 'Welcome course'. I couldnt find reference to what the welcome course was (new teachers? Immigrants? Kindy/prep?).
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAPegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3_fc_5CcclT4a6ZKjAcxBI

Luxembourg may have looked like a good place to look for work if Marion decided she would stay in the UK. She may have wanted a local sounding name on paper to help with her prospects of being hired. Keeping 'Marion' as a third name enabled her to plausibly still use it as her preferred name (face to face). Many women change their name after they divorce. Maybe Marion had been thinking of for sometime.

Patrick is also a tennis player and looks like he may have been quite a catch back then. https://www.itftennis.com/en/players/patrick-remakel/800135456/lux/jt/s/activity/#pprofile-info-tabs. He seems a lot younger than Marion so unlikely to be a connection.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Wow. The plot thickens.

Did Marion travel alone? Seeing as she refused anyone going to the airport with her, I'm inclined to think she travelled with someone.

Similarly, she went to great lengths to keep the 'art centre' man hidden. So I'm leaning towards Marion met this elusive man in Australia and left with him.

Can someone remind me... did the police previously say no Remakel's other than Marion entered or left Australia during that period? If so, the elusive man was travelling under an alias and somehow got Marion to change her name to 'his', even though his passport said something else.

The stop over in Japan might also be to obscure this elusive man's tracks. Hence why there is no Remakel coming and going to Australia, were a different passport was used, but there might be a Remakel travelling to and from Japan and South Korea.

Marion was really excited to travel on the Orient Express. Elusive man probably lied and let her think they would travel on it from England to Luxembourg, but of course, at the last minute, he did not let her in order to obscure their tracks.

I imagine the elusive man convinced Marion to not tell her family about their relationship and marriage as Sally was about to get married and just bought her dress. "You don't wan't to take anything away from your daughter's moment, do you?", "you've been married before, let her enjoy this special time, we'll tell her afterwards." Who can say no to that?

I cannot forget that Fernand had 'Marion's' lamp in his house. I imagine the elusive man let Marion think she was returning to Australia to finally tell her family she was married and was relocating permanently. She withdrew her money and sent her shipping container to Luxembourg, but she was never allowed to see her daughter and she never made it to her new home

I also can't forget that the Fernand has some sort of real estate investment business with website's around the world, in every language. I think it might be worth tracking these business ventures with reports of romance scams and possibly, missing women.

I am sick to my stomach.

 

[Loobyloo2]

N

Goran Markovic and his partner Nicola Penny the long con

This is a link to a very long commentary on Kelly's story. I done a lt of reading on it and so far, find it increasingly interesting that Goran was not alone in conning Kelly, but did so with his partner Nicola Penny- from Hounslow, Middlesex in the UK (just over an hour's drive from Tunbridge Wells.) I know Goran was said to be living in the UK over 10 years ago..not 20..but still...

Also, when Goran Markovich told Kelly she was in danger, she was sent away to none other than Luxembourg - where Goran Markovich met up with her later. I know he was around a lot of places, just interesting this is where Kelly was sent to.

Nicola Kelly was only with Goran Markovich from the year 2000 according to this report Goran Markovic and his partner Nicola Penny the long con [Archive] - RealScam.com - Is it, or isn't it? You Decide.

 

[Loobyloo2]

I think we need to go back to previous media reports to get the facts and sequences of events correct so will post what I have found.

Clues have linked Ms Barter to Grafton, Moree and Armidale – an anonymous call to Crime Stoppers in 2002 suggested she had been buried near the University of New England – but there has been no physical evidence to back-up the information.

There’s even the possibility that Ms Barter never returned to Australia and that she could have been the victim of identity theft.

This was reported in the media in February, 2013

Searching for clues to find missing mum

POST #225 Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #2

There is a big discrepancy in the podcast with what happened following the crimestoppers tip. Garry says he went to Armidale in 2010, went to the address supplied by the caller- that the name was bogus and the address was right, but the people had no idea what he was talking about. Garry says he spent two days searching for the site, identified the site, organised SES volunteers, took the volunteers and a cadaver dog to the site and searched for two days.

Sally says he searched for one day with the dog and the handler, in the rain. (Episode 5) Both accounts were played next to each other, with no clarification as to who has telling the correct account. Why the producers didn't find out, and edit accordingly is mystifying.

POST #226 There's another Marion (Sandford) on the NSW missing persons register. She went missing from Sydney's northern shores (Cammeray) in 1980. On the missing person register it says that Marion's Sandfords disappearance was investigated in connection with two other missing women in 2002. Perhaps it was this new avenue of investigation that generated the crimestoppers phone call in 2002 and the call relates to Marion Sandford not Marion Barter.

POST #228 Cammeray (North Shore) north of Sydney, could have been mistaken for Northern NSW. But I do wonder how it could end up in Marion's file, when the Marion Sandford was a declared missing person at the time and Marion wasn't, why wouldn't it go in the Marion Sandford file .... that's odd, isn't it, so maybe there was some other clue in the call linking it to Marion Barter?

POST #230 We haven't heard much detail about the call so perhaps there was something said that linked to Marion Barter. I was thinking that if the call to Crimestoppers referred to a Marion but didn't mention a surname so perhaps a record of the call was put with all files with the name Marion (both Sandford and Barter files) or perhaps that the call may have originally been investigated with Marion Sandford disappearance but was ruled out for some reason and then referred to the Marion Barter investigation (which might explain some of the delay in the follow up).

POST #223 . FROM SALLY "Mum went missing in 1997 - last known location Grafton Northern NSW The first magazine article I did was in 2004 Mum was only added to the NSW missing persons register in 2007 (not nationally) I started the Facebook page - Missing Person Marion Barter in 2013 SO! How did the person who called Crime Stoppers in 2002 who said “a woman by the name Marion who went missing from Northern NSW was buried in bush land in Armidale” know she was missing? If the case wasn’t publicised till 2004 how the hell did he know that a Marion was missing and last known to be at Grafton Northern NSW? The said location in Armidale that the male gave to Crime Stoppers 100% needs to fully searched including SES and volunteers happy to help! To think Det. Gary Sheehan found it on her file years later in 2010 and no one had previously acted on it!"

POST #235 Because the caller only mentioned Marion (with no surname) the police would have added the tip to every file associated with a Marion and also any unidentifieds in the area (and probably similar names too like Marilyn, Margret etc). That one crimestoppers call has probably been considered in relation to many cases simultaneously.

POST #236 VERBATIM FROM THE PODCAST. I've gone back to the podcast where the Crime Stoppers call is mentioned. It's in Episode 5 starting at 20.31:

POST #240 Based on this transcript, we don't have Gary confirming the tip came in in 2002. That date seems critical.

POST #249 We don't know that the crimestoppers call wasn't investigated at the time, just that it wasn't investigated in relation to Marion Barter at that time. The elderly couple may have been contacted by police several times over the call but Gary wouldn't be able to discuss other investigations when talking to the podcast/Sally. The podcast seem hellbent on portraying the police as negligent or disinterested but this is all based on assumption. The call is unlikely to relate to Marion, but the police have investigated it, this in itself should show the police have left not cut any corners or ignored any potential leads in looking for Marion.

POST #252 I think the crimestoppers tip would have been linked to the Sandford case (at least initially anyway) because she was actually listed as a missing person and her case was being highlighted at the time. I think it probably became part of the Barter investigation when a pre-Garry officer did a search of the database.

POST #257 apparently she studied in Wagga Wagga and not Armidale

POST #259 she also said the tip included "near the Uni and near a bike track". Looks like Gary had told her this perhaps over the phone

POST #261 this tip said "Marion who went missing from northern NSW" ... so Marion was living in Ashmore Queensland, worked at Southport Queensland ... how did they know Marion's last 'movements/whereabouts' were in northern NSW, Byron Bay, Grafton? Where Marion 'lived' was not northern NSW, as far as I can tell. If her disappearance was never reported in the media or press before 2002, as has been stated, that's also pretty interesting.

The other Marion (Sanford) had struggled with addictions and the disappearance was thought at the time to have been drug related. Mr Asia drug syndicate was something it was thought at the time she may have been involved with. A career criminal called Terry Clark was never ruled out of the investigations. At the time of her disappearance Clark was in the UK behind bars but the syndicate was still active.

 

[Loobyloo2]

I know that I shouldn’t be focusing on a statement that has been declared a mistake, but this scenario is the first that actually makes sense to me in this case. I’m building on everyone’s ideas here, but what if Marion received a diagnosis, decided to seek alternative care and used the ruse of a prolonged trip to the UK to receive this treatment without her family trying to convince her otherwise? She seems like such a spiritual lady, it seems entirely plausible to me that she could be interested in alternative therapies. Maybe she always planned to come back to Australia soon after a brief holiday in the UK, or maybe the treatment was supposed to happen in the UK but she had to come back for some other pressing business. If she died in the care of a alternative care provider/healer type person, or was being cared for in some kind of cult, they couldn’t really report her death without facing possible investigations or charges themselves, could they? The Twelve Tribes baby deaths are an example of this. This particular tribe didn’t trust or use standard medical care and as a result, the death of at least one baby was not reported and they were buried, presumably by the tribespeople, with no authorities ever alerted.

Some details about the alternative medical care of The Twelve Tribes:
What drove religious elder to leave controversial cult

The details of the current investigation into the deaths of babies:
Police 'find body of at least one baby' at Twelve Tribes religious sect headquarters | Daily Mail Online

I’m not saying that this is 100% what happened to Marion and that she joined the Twelve Tribes. It could have been a different organisation or individual treating her. Just that IMO, this is a plausible scenario where all the puzzle pieces seem to fit. The strange behaviour before she left, the brief trip to the UK, selling her house, changing her name (it sounds like such an alternative/cult-like name), quitting her job, the bank withdrawals in a strange location (maybe she needed more money than she anticipated?) and the effort she went to so that it would be hard to find her. The pieces just fit when thinking about this theory.

There has been no mention of anything untoward being found by Marion's family in medical reports. However, I would imagine that if there was any kind of medical diagnosis the more logical explanation would be to go to Luxembourg and then Switzerland for assisted Euthanasia, the quickest way taking just 2½ hours.

 

[Loobyloo2]

Diana--there's also a detective story by Josephine Tey in which an actress changed her name to Ray Marcable. The inspiration for the change was a director or something who used repeatedly to declare her, in French, to be remarkable! Marion named herself Florabella = beautiful flower; perhaps she intended Remakel to sound like and signify "remarkable".

Maybe simply Marion had once in her life visited the Florabella pass in NSW.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

My head is boggled right now.
My brain has totally stopped functioning, it doesn't know what to think anymore (00)

 

[Loobyloo2]

I would be interested to hear about the recluse mentioned by jaz98 who sits in a cafe in Byron Bay. Was this ever followed up and if so what was the outcome.

 

[JLZ]

Maybe simply Marion had once in her life visited the Florabella pass in NSW.

As someone aware of languages, she would have known the translation of Florabella IMO. I find the whole name has a grandiose sound, and it has me thinking whether she suffered from a bipolar mental illness. I suggest that once in England she found she didn't have the organizational capacity and energy, and hadn't done the preparation, to make the adventure work. She remained trapped in a fairly small area until perhaps some kind old souls took an interest her and encouraged her to return home where they thought she could receive family and professional care. That wasn't quite her idea. At some point she decided that having bundles of ready cash on hand would solve all logistical difficulties. I suspect she killed herself when the money ran out or when she was robbed; but also by this time she would have been a very easy victim--of whatever.

 

[Meligator]

I know there is mention of a dentist being with her when she changed her name. How did Sally find out about the dentist?

 

[sunnynz]

What baffles me is how the police would have contacted Marion by phone to ask if she was ok and her family where unable too? This would mean she would have had a telephone number unknown to her immediate family.

Maybe she was staying at a hotel and gave the contact details of that place to the bank and that’s how the police contacted her?

 

[Housemartyn]

There was something mentioned in the latest podcast episode 18 about a routine operation, I seem to recall a small polyp but would need to listen again. It was also mentioned by her family that Marion was unable to have any more children and had surgery for a hysterectomy. There where a few female related issues health wise but I can imagine that anything else was media sensation.

 

[Housemartyn]

There was something mentioned in the latest podcast episode 18 about a routine operation, I seem to recall a small polyp but would need to listen again. It was also mentioned by her family that Marion was unable to have any more children and had surgery for a hysterectomy. There where a few female related issues health wise but I can imagine that anything else was media sensation.

 

[Housemartyn]

Media sensation? What do you mean? The podcast ? They let slip that Marion had a rectal tumour and then retracted it saying that they had made a mistake! The fact that she had a colonoscopy before flying out to England and then visited the GP immediately on her return tells me that there were health issues.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I have a terrible feeling maybe Marion came back to tell a few close people she was moving permanently and had got married. Maybe one or more of those people weren’t happy about this and something happened, maybe an accident. Maybe the sort of people who, for example, think Sally should just forget about everything.

I doubt she’d some back for that reason.
I believe she came back to get her money out as she realized when she went overseas she couldn’t get her money out over there because her accounts were in her Marion barter name and she needed a passport overseas to get her money out and that was in her new name.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I still think, like Sally said, that something happened to make her leave.
I think she was frightened of something, frightened enough of something or someone to change her name and try to disappear.
I think it was more than just meeting some man.

 

[KiwiNZ]

N

Nicola Kelly was only with Goran Markovich from the year 2000 according to this report Goran Markovic and his partner Nicola Penny the long con [Archive] - RealScam.com - Is it, or isn't it? You Decide.

The Goran Markovich possibility is so far the only thing that makes sense to me. He has done dating scams, he has a link To Luxembourg, speaks multiple languages, travels between Aus, england and Europe, what really interested me was his grandmothers name was Natali. Would love to be able to get to the bottom of where he was in 1997 and could he have placed the ad in the paper in 1994 ? Marion may not have even seen the ad but he could have still been using that name as his cover in 1997. If not Goran I am sure there are others whom are as low life as him with a similar operating style, thankfully not many but some.

Also convinced that the reason Marion took $5k per day from her account was that she was asked to transfer it via western union or alike and they have a daily maximum limit. Scammers use the money transfer companies as it is easier to avoid detection than bank to bank transfer. Can anyone think of a way to check if there was a western union in Lennox heads in 1997