Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[sunnynz]

Goran Markovic and his partner Nicola Penny the long con

This is a link to a very long commentary on Kelly's story. I done a lt of reading on it and so far, find it increasingly interesting that Goran was not alone in conning Kelly, but did so with his partner Nicola Penny- from Hounslow, Middlesex in the UK (just over an hour's drive from Tunbridge Wells.) I know Goran was said to be living in the UK over 10 years ago..not 20..but still...

Also, when Goran Markovich told Kelly she was in danger, she was sent away to none other than Luxembourg - where Goran Markovich met up with her later. I know he was around a lot of places, just interesting this is where Kelly was sent to.

The Luxembourg connection, the woman accomplice, wow. Have you sent this to sally?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Goran Markovic and his partner Nicola Penny the long con

This is a link to a very long commentary on Kelly's story. I done a lt of reading on it and so far, find it increasingly interesting that Goran was not alone in conning Kelly, but did so with his partner Nicola Penny- from Hounslow, Middlesex in the UK (just over an hour's drive from Tunbridge Wells.) I know Goran was said to be living in the UK over 10 years ago..not 20..but still...

Also, when Goran Markovich told Kelly she was in danger, she was sent away to none other than Luxembourg - where Goran Markovich met up with her later. I know he was around a lot of places, just interesting this is where Kelly was sent to.

I am not sure if Luxembourg was his suggestion or her wanting to go, but would be interesting to find out, I think Kelly is open to talking about the experience to help anyone in the same position and getting the word out About Markovic.

He has been with his partner for about 8 years so I don’t think she is involved with Marion, however to have meet each other you would assume he was in the south of England prior to that.

itsapuzzel posted above some dates of when he was in custody Feb 98 in Aus.

Just trying to link him to the north NSW area / Queensland in the mid to late 90's

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am not sure if Luxembourg was his suggestion or her wanting to go, but would be interesting to find out, I think Kelly is open to talking about the experience to help anyone in the same position and getting the word out About Markovic.

He has been with his partner for about 8 years so I don’t think she is involved with Marion, however to have meet each other you would assume he was in the south of England prior to that.

itsapuzzel posted above some dates of when he was in custody Feb 98 in Aus.

Just trying to link him to the north NSW area / Queensland in the mid to late 90's

In hindsight a good question to Mr F Remakel would have been, do you know this man

 

[Itsapuzzle]

The interesting thing about the Le Courrier advertisement is it was placed on 10 December 1994 ... now that's getting to the time when everyone takes their summer holidays for a few weeks here .... perhaps the person who placed the ad lived in another State and was heading to the Byron Bay area for a few weeks to either stay with a friend, or stay at a friend's house while they were away, and was testing out the opportunity of meeting someone while there. Just another thought.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

The interesting thing about the Le Courrier advertisement is it was placed on 10 December 1994 ... now that's getting to the time when everyone takes their summer holidays for a few weeks here .... perhaps the person who placed the ad lived in another State and was heading to the Byron Bay area for a few weeks to either stay with a friend, or stay at a friend's house while they were away, and was testing out the opportunity of meeting someone while there. Just another thought.

also the ad was only about one week after fernand remakel would have turned 47, so he was only 47yrs old by a week. At the time of writing the ad, it might have been just a few days after his birthday.
I was thinking that if you just had your birthday you might use your old age to make yourself look younger on the ad. But another way of looking at it is maybe he just had his birthday, felt lonely and decided to place the ad. Who knows.....

 

[KiwiNZ]

also the ad was only about one week after fernand remakel would have turned 47, so he was only 47yrs old by a week. At the time of writing the ad, it might have been just a few days after his birthday.
I was thinking that if you just had your birthday you might use your old age to make yourself look younger on the ad. But another way of looking at it is maybe he just had his birthday, felt lonely and decided to place the ad. Who knows.....

I just don't get the feeling Mr F Remakel is an international con man, I don't know but I feel like if someone had gone to these lengths to scam a women it would be a serial criminal, you kinda don't do these things once, you have to have balls of steels and be extremely devious, its in your make up to do this kind of crime and there would only be a handful of these types of person like Hamish Watson (who the hell is Hamish podcast) and Goran Markovic in the area at that time.

I don't discount the ad been the real Mr F Remakel's if they can prove he was in Australia, as both a telephone number and Po box was supplied with the ad, but I struggle to connect him directly to Marion's strange behavior. Or the ad was placed by a con man like Markovic, whom had stolen his identity, and who was know to use many alias's and travel on fake passports between Aus and Europe.

This case is so mind bending.

 

[Zechoan]

Goran Markovic....I must read up about him as sounds interesting. I think if the F Remakel from the paper was involved, then Remakel would not have been his real name if he was a con man. Or could Marian or her con man have seen Remakel ad in paper and used it to their/her advantage (I.e. Name change and BB bank access to help throw everyone off who would be looking for her?) what do you guys make off someone from the school's rumour of Marion's inappropriate interactions with boys? I was thinking Someone vindicative was trying to discredit her and ruin her teaching reputation, but why....? Could Marion have discovered something illegal going on through TSS and someone has tried to ruin her rep first? If this thing she found out was big, maybe this was why she was forced to leave her old life? Pedophile ring, drugs. Sounds far fetched though. Just, if the Remakel ad was in paper in 94, why wait til 97 for name change and subsequent chain of events that year? This case is by far the most mind boggling one I've ever come across. If it's a case of coercion by a conman and nothing to do with TSS, why the awful allegation about Marion from the school that same year?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Goran Markovic....I must read up about him as sounds interesting. I think if the F Remakel from the paper was involved, then Remakel would not have been his real name if he was a con man. Or could Marian or her con man have seen Remakel ad in paper and used it to their/her advantage (I.e. Name change and BB bank access to help throw everyone off who would be looking for her?) what do you guys make off someone from the school's rumour of Marion's inappropriate interactions with boys? I was thinking Someone vindicative was trying to discredit her and ruin her teaching reputation, but why....? Could Marion have discovered something illegal going on through TSS and someone has tried to ruin her rep first? If this thing she found out was big, maybe this was why she was forced to leave her old life? Pedophile ring, drugs. Sounds far fetched though. Just, if the Remakel ad was in paper in 94, why wait til 97 for name change and subsequent chain of events that year? This case is by far the most mind boggling one I've ever come across. If it's a case of coercion by a conman and nothing to do with TSS, why the awful allegation about Marion from the school that same year?

After reading Kelly's story I started to wonder if the scammer maybe used the TSS situation against her, lead her to believe she was been investigated for touching boys after Marion may have confided in him what was going on in the school and convinced her to go on the run. If you read Kelly's story on GM you will see how far these people go to play with your mind.

I personally don't think the real F Remakel has anything to do with Marion's disappearance and maybe the original ad was the scammer fishing years before, maybe Marion didn't see it at the time, maybe she meet him some other way but he used the fake identity of F Remakel.

I have seen a document where GM claims to speak French, Russian and Polish and he has spent a lot of time in France, that could be the connect to the advert. If it was GM whom posted it, I would say he knew, knew of him, including his date of birth, because as Serially Addict said above why when you birthday has just been (1 week before) would you not make yourself younger as it was only 1 week, but if you where impersonating someone you would likely use the exact age in accordance to the birthdate because your entire thought process is to pass yourself off as someone else so you follow it to the letter.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

The Luxembourg connection, the woman accomplice, wow. Have you sent this to sally?

Not as yet, but then again more because it seems to have been one of a number of places he went to or was connected to. Had it been Luxembourg only I may have. I wasn't sure it was strong enough to really go on.. but I may be wrong..

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I just don't get the feeling Mr F Remakel is an international con man, I don't know but I feel like if someone had gone to these lengths to scam a women it would be a serial criminal, you kinda don't do these things once, you have to have balls of steels and be extremely devious, its in your make up to do this kind of crime and there would only be a handful of these types of person like Hamish Watson (who the hell is Hamish podcast) and Goran Markovic in the area at that time.

I don't discount the ad been the real Mr F Remakel's if they can prove he was in Australia, as both a telephone number and Po box was supplied with the ad, but I struggle to connect him directly to Marion's strange behavior. Or the ad was placed by a con man like Markovic, whom had stolen his identity, and who was know to use many alias's and travel on fake passports between Aus and Europe.

This case is so mind bending.

yes you are not wrong - this case is very mind boggling!

I strongly believe the person who placed the ad and Marion are linked. I think there are numerous possibilities and it doesn’t mean the person who placed the ad killed marion and Marion may have met them not through the ad but via other ways.
Some possibilities are listed below:
1) A fake person/scammer placed the ad who’s real name wasn’t remakel
2) A real person with surname remakel placed the ad
3) Marion placed the ad (unlikely but just throwing it out there as a possibility)

From the above, there are numerous outcomes on what could have happened - eg under #2 it might be that Marion was infatuated by the Remakel person, met them somewhere and loved the name and decided to change her name to remakel, and Marion had no relationship as such with that person. Or under #2 it could be they had a strong relationship.

I believe the police will uncover more information on the ad and link with Marion, I have no doubt.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Just thinking about the bank calling Marion to verify it was her. I had asked previously in a post how people thought the bank were able to contact Marion. People generally thought that she must have updated her contact information with the bank.
If that was the case and Marion did update her contact information, then don’t you think It must have been Marion who the bank called and not an imposter? Because why would an imposter give their real contact details to a bank? You combine that with the bank more than likely asking security questions to Marion in order for them to verify who they were speaking to, and I think it’s a no brainer that the bank was speaking with Marion.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Manged to pick out exactly, the part relating to Luxembourg and the bits around it. The article is very very long though. Having trouble finding all the vital bits each time I go back. Feel free to read if you get time, as there may be even more important bits to take note! The thing that is getting to me is how familiar this all sounds, but the timing of it all. Thanks to Itsapuzzle we know Goran Markovich was not in police custody in 1997, but other than knowing he had offences that dated much further back, we know very little of his movements around that time. He used many different names granted and often his own..I will look them up again, but none seemed to be so different in the way Remakel is. One interesting point is fact one of the things he alleged to be to his victims was an airline pilot. We know Marion had had a thing for a pilot. Like the footballer thing, she may have fell for him on that basis.

Goran Markovic and his partner Nicola Penny the long con
.."He was acting very scared and told me that these criminals might be listening via his mobile phone so we had to talk as if we were going to Bruges when we were actually headed for France. When we arrived in Calais, he called his boss Todd Brown. I mention these details because for the next 7 months, Goran Markovic planned a very elaborate and detailed scam, just as I am now describing, that convinced me that he was an agent and we were hiding out from criminals.

This is all when things really deteriorated from this point onwards. For the next few weeks I lived in fear that we would be found by these criminals. We used fake names to book hotels so that we could not be traced. After a few weeks he told me he had to complete this assignment and it would be a joint operation with the American and Australian secret services. He would have to go back to Belgium but that it was too dangerous for me to be anywhere near him so I went to Luxembourg. By this time, he was still using my credit card and I believed that I needed his protection. He reassured me it would all end soon and our money would be reimbursed. I had started receiving emails from his supposed boss who kept me informed of the progress of the assignment. Goran called every day when "the right satellites were in position to provide coverage so that our locations could not be discovered by any of the criminals."

 

[sunnynz]

Just thinking about the bank calling Marion to verify it was her. I had asked previously in a post how people thought the bank were able to contact Marion. People generally thought that she must have updated her contact information with the bank.
If that was the case and Marion did update her contact information, then don’t you think It must have been Marion who the bank called and not an imposter? Because why would an imposter give their real contact details to a bank? You combine that with the bank more than likely asking security questions to Marion in order for them to verify who they were speaking to, and I think it’s a no brainer that the bank was speaking with Marion.

assuming it was the real Marion who updated her contact details. A scammer may have been the one to update the details. Far fetched I know.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

assuming it was the real Marion who updated her contact details. A scammer may have been the one to update the details. Far fetched I know.

Yes very far fetched I’d say!

 

[KiwiNZ]

assuming it was the real Marion who updated her contact details. A scammer may have been the one to update the details. Far fetched I know.

I cant imagine a scammer would leave their forwarding details with the bank, so the bank could track them down months after when they realise they have been heisted, that would be a special kind of stupid. That's like robbing someone and handing them your real contact details.

but who knows … lol

 

[KiwiNZ]

I just don't see Marion changing her name, without telling her family, unless she had been conspired to do so and there was a reason ( like a threat real or made up) or that the name Remakel was her choice, I think its unlikely she saw or responded to the ad 2 years before any of this went down, but likely that the person whom placed the ad was still using that name Remakel in a fraudulent way. I don't think it was the real Mr F Remakel whom placed the add because their was a local PO box and telephone number with the ad.

If she just picked the name because she like it there was no reason not to tell her family she had changed her name, other than if she wanted to disappear and start a new life, which is starting to feel less likely to me after reading about GM and Hamish that they is people out their whom make it their full time job to deceive people and put a lot of effort into creating this make believe world that people get sucked into.

 

[JLZ]

I cant imagine a scammer would leave their forwarding details with the bank, so the bank could track them down months after when they realise they have been heisted, that would be a special kind of stupid. That's like robbing someone and handing them your real contact details.

but who knows … lol

I don't see it quite like that. By substituting their own contact details for the victim's, they'd be removing the victim's authority and ability to call out the scam.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I don't see it quite like that. By substituting their own contact details for the victim's, they'd be removing the victim's authority and ability to call out the scam.

and I agree it has been done before, in the UK when someone killed someone and took their full identify on, bank accounts drivers licensee etc... and lived as them for many years before been caught out. so it is always possible it is just unlikely IMO but my opinion is not more valuable than the next persons as this case has us all baffled.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I just don't see Marion changing her name, without telling her family, unless she had been conspired to do so and there was a reason ( like a threat real or made up) or that the name Remakel was her choice, I think its unlikely she saw or responded to the ad 2 years before any of this went down, but likely that the person whom placed the ad was still using that name Remakel in a fraudulent way. I don't think it was the real Mr F Remakel whom placed the add because their was a local PO box and telephone number with the ad.

If she just picked the name because she like it there was no reason not to tell her family she had changed her name, other than if she wanted to disappear and start a new life, which is starting to feel less likely to me after reading about GM and Hamish that they is people out their whom make it their full time job to deceive people and put a lot of effort into creating this make believe world that people get sucked into.

I think Marion could well have changed her name on her own accord and wasn’t coerced into doing it. If Marion was in any trouble you would have thought that she would have confided in someone and told them. She also told the bank person who called her she was fine and just wanted to be left alone (although yes she many not have wanted to confide in the bank person and tell the truth, who knows).

The other possibility I have thought about is about Marion’s son and whether he had anything to do with it. The only reason for this is his suicide which is a very rare occurrence. Could he have been abused as a child and had proof of what happened and he told Marion she needed to start a new life? There was tension between them apparently in the lead up to her going away.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think Marion could well have changed her name on her own accord and wasn’t coerced into doing it. If Marion was in any trouble you would have thought that she would have confided in someone and told them. She also told the bank person who called her she was fine and just wanted to be left alone (although yes she many not have wanted to confide in the bank person and tell the truth, who knows).

The other possibility I have thought about is about Marion’s son and whether he had anything to do with it. The only reason for this is his suicide which is a very rare occurrence. Could he have been abused as a child and had proof of what happened and he told Marion she needed to start a new life? There was tension between them apparently in the lead up to her going away.

I would have thought had Marion started a new life without any outside influences we would have found something in relation to Florabella Remakel, she didn't know Sally knew that name and Sally didn't know until 2007 (?) so there was no need to change it again and the police could easily track her via her tax number. Most people whom disappear start over a normal life, it just that no one knows their new name to track them. But again I don't know lol there are to many branches on this tree lol

yeah the son thing is strange, and was mentioned by the TSS guy and according to the father the relationship was not that great. But Sally seems to have shut up shop on that one, which is understandable as it is probably hurtful to her and she would not draw attention to the disappearance of her mother if she thought her brother was involved, but sometime we are not the best people to judge those closest to us.

Also can ignore the fact that her sisters think she could up and leave