Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

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I must admit that I lost interest in this case mainly because I have always believed that Marion never returned to Australia so I am not up-to-date with everything and have forgotten some of it. I am also following another case (Caroline Crouch) which is fascinating me with all its twists and turns.

My interest has been renewed with the inquest. Currently I'd like to know more about the marriage certificate, Mazz and the dentist and anything overseas really.
 
I’ve always suspected a female was also involved in the scam. Was Marion ‘befriended’ in the UK by Mazz (its a shortened name for Marion in the UK) to watch her mannerisms, appearance & clothes in order to impersonate her?

The female impersonator returns to Australia as Florabella Remakel who nobody knows but on landing becomes Marion Barter again in order to withdraw the money (account still in the name of Barter) and use the Medicare card (also in the name of Barter) to confuse those looking for her?

The female then leaves Australia using her real name & passport.
 
Estelle said:
What about Missing Persons in the UK? Maybe they have an unrecognised body or there is a Florabella there. But as her passport was probably stolen from her, I suspect Marion was murdered in 1997. I have never been convinced that she ever came back here. IMO everyone wanted to believe that she did for some reason.

This was a scam from the beginning and another woman posed as Marion using Florabella's passport to come back here, withdraw the money and ship or sell the antiques.
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According to the UK's missing person's website there aren't any unidentified bodies on there as far as I can see that would match Marion, but given the amount of cases that happen per year I'm sure that not all of them are in the system.
 
TootsieFootsie said:
Yes I do too.
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It's really hard to tell with the handwriting because Marion's changes so frequently, even in terms of characteristics. However, there are some striking similarities across the handwriting samples that make me think that it was Marion who filled out both passenger cards. I'm not an expert but it's an area that I'm really interested in, and a lot of the time it's not how visually similar the letters are but how they are formed, as people have natural habits that they probably aren't even aware of.

One characteristic that sticks out to me is the way that Marion in multiple samples writes her capital 'E'. If you look, you can see that she forms what I am nicknaming a 'fragmented E', where the letter looks as though it is collapsing/exploding - the dashes that form the 'E' don't touch the original strike of the letter and they sort of collapse into each other at an angle. In my opinion, this is consistent throughout the samples.

There are other letters, too, with which this is the case but this is probably the most noticeable.
 
I think so too. She has so many styles - some of her As are triangles and some are square. Some 4s are open and others are closed.

But it's the Ls that do it for me... the bottom line is never straight but slightly curves up with a little hump in all the samples. Almost like a tiny h. Which is unique.

This case takes so many twists and turns, it's hard to commit to any one theory because none and all make sense! :confused:

It is also possible that the postcards were sent after she returned to Australia as part of the scam - as in, it was never supposed to be known she returned and accounts were drained. The conman might've been working with someone else, and they wanted to make it look as though Marion was fine in England for as long as possible to give themselves time. Who knows.

vivienbee said:
It's really hard to tell with the handwriting because Marion's changes so frequently, even in terms of characteristics. However, there are some striking similarities across the handwriting samples that make me think that it was Marion who filled out both passenger cards. I'm not an expert but it's an area that I'm really interested in, and a lot of the time it's not how visually similar the letters are but how they are formed, as people have natural habits that they probably aren't even aware of.

One characteristic that sticks out to me is the way that Marion in multiple samples writes her capital 'E'. If you look, you can see that she forms what I am nicknaming a 'fragmented E', where the letter looks as though it is collapsing/exploding - the dashes that form the 'E' don't touch the original strike of the letter and they sort of collapse into each other at an angle. In my opinion, this is consistent throughout the samples.

There are other letters, too, with which this is the case but this is probably the most noticeable.
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This sums it up perfectly. Even a simple explanation (she just wanted to start a new life) requires that the Remakel/Luxembourg connection be what? Just a coincidence? There is no simple/logical explanation that makes sense. Every other explanation seems too implausible to be true.


Peralta said:
This case takes so many twists and turns, it's hard to commit to any one theory because none and all make sense! :confused:
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I’m really pleased to have found this forum. I’ve been fascinated by this case for ages.

I thought it might be helpful to point out that are two completely separate places in Kent-

- Royal Tunbridge Wells
- Tonbridge

I think Marion was staying in Tunbridge Wells, and the castle is in Tonbridge which is to the south. The two places are fairly close, but they are completely distinct and very different.
 
I have been very curious about Marion’s choice of name and the Luxembourg connection. I’m sure this must have been discussed before.

Villeroy and Bosch had a range of china called Flora Bella and it was Luxembourg china. I don’t exactly know what Luxembourg china is, but it was how this range was described.

Did Marion know she was going to Luxembourg, make the connection and use the name Florabella? It just seems so odd, like it’s a deliberate clue being left.
 
Sorry I’ve been following this forum for a while and had a quick look on Facebook but can’t find a picture of the postcard/s sent from Marion. Do we have them ? Was the date time stamped or just written ?
I still think marion/florabella came back into aus. I am finding t hard to believe the “possible scammer” would use marion barters Medicare card to go to an optometrist. Why risk it ?
 
Lulu mac said:
Sorry I’ve been following this forum for a while and had a quick look on Facebook but can’t find a picture of the postcard/s sent from Marion. Do we have them ? Was the date time stamped or just written ?
I still think marion/florabella came back into aus. I am finding t hard to believe the “possible scammer” would use marion barters Medicare card to go to an optometrist. Why risk it ?
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As far as I'm aware (I don't have a Medicare card so don't quote me), there is no photo ID on the card. It might be possible that if someone down on their luck happened to find the card they might have just tried tried to use it. (I'm not saying that's what happened, just musing aloud.)

I thought for a while that it might have been related to when she got her wallet stolen in 1994, if someone had just kept the card, but I assume she would have cancelled the card in that instance so I no longer believe that's possible as it would have flagged the system/been invalid.
 
The postcard dated after she returned is one of the strongest indications so far that Marion did not return or at the very least, someone else was involved, IMO. I’d like to know more about this and the exact date on the post card. Very strange.

If it was a written date and only a few days out, it could be explained by late post and Marion’s deception. But if it was definitely postmarked from the UK during the time Marion was supposedly in Australia, someone else was involved. Either someone sent it from the UK, or someone was pretending to be Marion in Australia. The only other possible thing I can think of is that Marion could have delivered it herself in Australia and made it look like it was sent from the UK. Bizarre I know, but what isn’t bizarre about this case?! There’s probably an explanation I haven’t thought of too.
 
What if Marion filled out a bunch of postcards ready to send, but then thought she needed to get back here in a rush to withdraw money from her bank accounts. She may have had trouble trying to get her money once she was in the UK

Marion doesn't have to have posted the postcards herself. Maybe she asked the hotel she was staying at, and they posted them.
I'm sure hotels get asked to do that all the time.


Loxoli said:
The postcard dated after she returned is one of the strongest indications so far that Marion did not return or at the very least, someone else was involved, IMO. I’d like to know more about this and the exact date on the post card. Very strange.
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Spontaneous random thought .... just remembered about the passenger list on the flights Marion took .... can't wait to find out if they're still in existence and maybe they'll reveal who Marion sat next to on the plane. Remember she didn't want Lesley to drive her to the airport or for anyone to say goodbye there .... the mystery travelling companion, quite possible. Would love to see a list of all the passengers, hey!
 
TootsieFootsie said:
I imagine that all Lesley Loveday wanted was to live a life that she took for granted before. Just a normal private life, like most people live.
All she did was give a friend a lift to a bus terminal. Yet over the years every so often she has been hounded by probably well meaning people who seem to not accept that she doesn't know more than she has already said.
She sees her name in news stories. She is tracked down numerous times by people hoping she can reveal more about the friend who she gave the lift to.

She sees her name being discussed in various forums and news articles. Some of which say she must know more than she has told anyone and that perhaps she is keeping her friends secret. Finally as pressure mounts on her, she announces via police that she isn't interested in talking to anyone, not even the family.

That of course, backfires, because now, surely she must be hiding something.

I can imagine that since the case has become more well known, not only are the podcast people and her friends family after her, but a growing army of amateur sleuths trying to track her down and grill her. She never knows when someone will turn up at her house or work or try to make contact via other methods.

And all because she once gave a lift to a friend.
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Hello everyone, I have been absent for ages but the inquest has brought me back to websleuths haha!

Yes I think this too. Plus the fact, whilst she originally didn't want to speak with Sally or anyone else (other than NSW police) she ended up coming around and having a discussion with Sally/the podcast in 2019. I think she has been really co-operative JMO.

Also I think it's worth just noting that Marion's sister Deirdre was actually interviewed on the podcast on the second episode. She definitely (to me at least) sounded like she based her views on the fact that the Salvation Army and Police had said certain things coupled with the fact that her own parents found Marion's disappearance very distressing/painful. In my opinion, I don't think Lesley or the sisters knew anything more than they have claimed.
 
TootsieFootsie said:
I imagine that all Lesley Loveday wanted was to live a life that she took for granted before. Just a normal private life, like most people live.
All she did was give a friend a lift to a bus terminal. Yet over the years every so often she has been hounded by probably well meaning people who seem to not accept that she doesn't know more than she has already said.
She sees her name in news stories. She is tracked down numerous times by people hoping she can reveal more about the friend who she gave the lift to.

She sees her name being discussed in various forums and news articles. Some of which say she must know more than she has told anyone and that perhaps she is keeping her friends secret. Finally as pressure mounts on her, she announces via police that she isn't interested in talking to anyone, not even the family.

That of course, backfires, because now, surely she must be hiding something.

I can imagine that since the case has become more well known, not only are the podcast people and her friends family after her, but a growing army of amateur sleuths trying to track her down and grill her. She never knows when someone will turn up at her house or work or try to make contact via other methods.

And all because she once gave a lift to a friend.
Click to expand...


Hello everyone, I have been absent for ages but the inquest has brought me back to websleuths haha!

Yes I think this too. Plus the fact, whilst she originally didn't want to speak with Sally or anyone else (other than NSW police) she ended up coming around and having a discussion with Sally at some point after the podcast started. I think she has been really co-operative JMO.

Also I think it's worth just noting that Marion's sister Deirdre was actually interviewed on the podcast on the second episode. She definitely (to me at least) sounded like she based her views on the fact that the Salvation Army and Police had said certain things coupled with the fact that her own parents found Marion's disappearance very distressing/painful. In my opinion, I don't think Lesley or the sisters knew anything more than they have claimed.
 
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