Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[Meligator]

I think Marion's relationship with both of her children appears a bit odd to outsiders. If I remember from the podcast Owen spent a large part of his teens living with his Dad rather than his mother as her husband (the Barter one I think) didn't get on with him? And the comments from her sisters about how she absolutely would miss Sally's wedding if she had better things to do.

It's all painting a picture of a woman who was a bit selfish in respects to her children - her needs first, her desire to be in a relationship or keep a man happy above all else. Marion's children don't appear to have had a particularly stable upbringing. I don't think that's particularly uncommon, but does throw doubt on how much Sally, Owen or the sisters really knew what was going on.

Maybe just me, but I did think it a bit unfair that Deidre described Marion as having given up her child. Owen went to live with his biological father, during a time when his behavior was causing stress to her marriage. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong— but pretty common for kids of divorced parents (especially with challenging teens). I just thinks it’s very harsh to imply she gave him up/abandoned him. Yes she may be selfish about things, but also seems like was living in an incredibly judgemental fishbowl of a family.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

If she did travel to mainland Europe in a foreign registered vehicle the chances are it would have had a Dutch/Belgium/German number plate as Luxembourg plates in the UK especially back in 1997 are rarer than hens teeth and would easily stand out.

 

[Meligator]

Sadly none of them are that clear. Only the letter to Sally which was postmarked Tonbridge on the 30/6/97.

The Alfriston postcard appears to have been posted in Sussex (town?) in July 97 and the Cat Shop postcard was postmarked Hastings. The London postcard was postmarked London but only July 97 is distinguishable. There does appear to be a 1 on the date.

I’m wondering if she was in UK for a much shorter period than we might imagine. If the Deidre postcard isn’t from August (my theory) then perhaps she was in UK only briefly with the purpose of sending lots of postcards. If she arrived June 30–traveled 10 days or so through Tunbridge-Brighton-Hastings-Rye— sending postcards—it might appear back home that she was traveling through UK for a longer time. We don’t really know where she was up until June 30th and we don’t have any postcards/letters that seem to be mid to late July. If she went to Amsterdam/Traveling Europe mid July (as she suggests), why no postcards? I just think she spend most of her time someplace else (someplace she wanted to keep secret)—took a trip to UK to write lots of letters—and then returned to her secret spot. I don’t think UK holds the answers.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Because I discovered the Jungblut marriage a stones throw from Heathrow in Surrey I did wonder why not a single postcard from that beautiful Home Counties location and yet there are from London, Kent, East Sussex & West Sussex?

 

[SaintGertrude]

Has anyone listened to the one off Dakota Spotlight's interview with the podcast team. The Lady Vanishes: the strange disappearance of an Australian school teacher | Grand Forks Herald

 

[Meligator]

I also think it’s interesting that on her outgoing passenger card, it looks like she wrote Europe and someone with different handwriting corrected to Luxembourg. Almost like she was avoiding writing Luxembourg (didn’t want to leave a paper trail) yet perhaps didn’t want to lie on an official document. She never mentions Luxembourg to anyone in the family as even a potential place she might visit. Not sure if there is really an FR connection but I think Luxembourg may be key. There have to be travel records someplace, showing where she went after South Korea.

 

[vivienbee]

This is massively frustrating for all of us looking into this case in the UK. Not found one person who remembers her or has come forward. Saying that this case has barely had an ounce of publicity in the UK including the South East of England which is strange. This is the land of Sherlock Holmes and Miss Marple after all. I feel it needs publicity in one of the bigger national newspapers (any who might remember her probably aren’t on Social media) and a mainstream TV station to tell the whole bizarre story. A little old lady sitting in front of her TV in the UK might then say that face looks familiar.

Seconded. My best friend is from Tunbridge Wells and I had to tell her about this case. She had never heard of it.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

“Staying in a old farm Oast with a nice family”. Family not couple. So I’m guessing the owners of this establishment had children. So we are probably looking for more than 2 people who came across Marion whilst she stayed there. Now the hard part. Where?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

“Talk about shop till you drop”. We already know Marion was loaded up like a “pack horse” with luggage so where on Earth was she carrying all this extra shopping and bring that back to Australia? And where was she getting the money? That’s a lot of Travellers cheques to pay for various B&Bs, hotels, car hire, train fare, shopping etc.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The postcard postmarked Tonbridge on the 7 Aug 97 Marion states she could have had a relief job at a local village school. A little odd as most schools Summer holidays run from July to September. How did she find out about this job? Did she have an interview? Who offered it to her?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The only school Marion does mention in her letter to Sally (postmarked 30 June 1997) is The Mead School in Tunbridge Wells which is close to The Pantiles where I believe Marion was staying whilst there. It’s one of a number of Independent schools in the town and wouldn’t be classed as a village school in my view. I did contact the school last year and they investigated the matter and said that sadly those there at the time didn’t remember Marion or an Australian teacher contacting them. What intrigues me is that Marion had picked up their school brochure just days after arriving in the UK. I think she had a real intention of being a teacher in the UK.

 

[AStartoSteerBy]

Maybe just me, but I did think it a bit unfair that Deidre described Marion as having given up her child. Owen went to live with his biological father, during a time when his behavior was causing stress to her marriage. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong— but pretty common for kids of divorced parents (especially with challenging teens). I just thinks it’s very harsh to imply she gave him up/abandoned him. Yes she may be selfish about things, but also seems like was living in an incredibly judgemental fishbowl of a family.

Family relationships are a mosaic by nature. As Marion's family describes her, remember that their descriptions are influenced by their own biases, judgements, feelings, grievances, emotional health, and a host of other factors. It does seem like her family judged her too harshly.

Just throwing this idea out there, in Marion's defense. Marion may not have been "narcissistic" or "selfish." There isn't a one size fits all style of parenting (single, divorced, or married). Perhaps, she was ahead of her time in trying to step out of traditional roles and the "martyr complex" in parenting by providing for her her own emotional well being. Today, many counsellors would applaud her for paying attention to her self care, entering into new relationships, and pursuing her own interests. The cultural idea that motherhood has to be about a mother sacrificing all of her own happiness for her children isn't entirely healthy.

"There's a steep price to pay for this kind of cultural upbringing. " 7 Signs of a Narcissistic Parent With a Martyr Complex

Current thoughts on divorced/single parenting include the idea that a mother should pursue her own well being and happiness. No matter how many sacrifices a parent makes, there is no "guarantee" that a child will grow up to be a happy, productive adult. Everything is much more complex.

By today's standards, a parent should maintain their own separate identity in addition to being a parent. Sometimes a child (or teen) would be equally disturbed no matter what path a parent chose. Perhaps, Marion's choices were wrong for her children, or perhaps, the outcome would have been the same. There's no way to know. Hindsight is 20/20. It's different to armchair referee a replay, than in real time in the middle of the struggle.

So, in evaluating Marion's choices, it don't think it's entirely fair to conclude narcissism or selfishness motivated her choices. There's nothing wrong with traditional values, but Marion found herself in nontraditional circumstances. She may have intuitively followed a style of parenting that was more modern than the decades in which she was raising children. It's quite possible that her choices were misunderstood by her family that had more traditional ideas of motherhood and relationships.
Of course, I understand the other sides of this issue as well. All human behavior has many complicated dimensions.
All MOO.

 

[PhilOlivettifan]

Sadly none of them are that clear. Only the letter to Sally which was postmarked Tonbridge on the 30/6/97.

The Alfriston postcard appears to have been posted in Sussex (town?) in July 97 and the Cat Shop postcard was postmarked Hastings. The London postcard was postmarked London but only July 97 is distinguishable. There does appear to be a 1 on the date.

I might be missing something but I'm unsure as to why people are zeroing in on the postcard dates.

You can't track someone's movements from a few postcards. Sometimes you might buy and write and post all in the space of half an hour, and other times one might hang onto them for a day or two or even longer before writing/posting. So I am not convinced they are of any value other than showing a general or very rough guide as to where Marion went and when, nothing more. ??

 

[KiwiNZ]

The timing of the post cards dated the 7th of August is a bit odd, according to her arrival card she on planned to stay 8 days ( from the 2nd of August), why bother getting someone to send a card when your only off grid for 8 days and how would they know to hold one back until much later like the 30th ?

I assume she thought she would be back to in time to send Owens birthday card and it was interesting that her sister said her birthday parcel arrived quite early in June even though her birthday was August the 7th when Marion would have been in Australia.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think the coming back that soon wasn't part of her plan, but something happened.

I don't believe she had planned to never come back and never contact her family again.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I did post a while back the one of the Dutch family holiday snap of The Pantiles in Tun Wells from July 97. I still think one of the lady’s in the photo looks like Marion from the back but I’ve been told not likely to be from the clothes she is wearing. Of course the odds are thousands to one.

I did ask the question on TLV Facebook page whether Marion would have taken a camera and did she own one? Why go 10000 miles on a dream trip and not take a camera with you?

Just went back and looked at that post again, the last time I looked I missed the "translate this page" button - got it this time. Great find Lord Peter, this is exactly the sort of thing that we need to find, completely brilliant, good on ya. I've attached the photo and circled who looked like Marion, one of those two? I was looking at that link in your post #402 to see if I could find the occupation, but couldn't find - not a dentist? Will catch up on posts now while I munch on breaky toast ............

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Just adding to previous post .... I reckon anything we find, like LPF found in post #402, should be forwarded to TLV team .... they could then email them an mp3 of Marion (if they thought it worthwhile) showing her talking and moving around, to see if they can recall meeting her. The Dutch family is an excellent one to forward on to them because they were in Rye and Tunbridge Wells at the time and were holidaying.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Just went back and looked at that post again, the last time I looked I missed the "translate this page" button - got it this time. Great find Lord Peter, this is exactly the sort of thing that we need to find, completely brilliant, good on ya. I've attached the photo and circled who looked like Marion, one of those two? I was looking at that link in your post #402 to see if I could find the occupation, but couldn't find - not a dentist? Will catch up on posts now while I munch on breaky toast ............
View attachment 304966

Thanks Itsapuzzle. Actually there are 2 I’m interested in. The lady walking into the store with the man and the lady on the right hand side seemingly in a group of 3

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Thanks Itsapuzzle. Actually there are 2 I’m interested in. The lady walking into the store with the man and the lady on the right hand side seemingly in a group of 3

Ah yes, I see, the lady walking into the shop with the man ... I can see that she has a spotted scarf round her neck creating an illusion of hair length ... she has an exposed midriff and is wearing heels .... I think I'd rule Marion out for that one, but the other one, h'mm, yes, there are similarities. I say pass it on to TLV team .... and let us know what they say .... and what they find out Just the fact of Dutch tourists there at the time of Marion's visit warrants attention - I mean, if he's a dentist. MOO

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Ah yes, I see, the lady walking into the shop with the man ... I can see that she has a spotted scarf round her neck creating an illusion of hair length ... she has an exposed midriff and is wearing heels .... I think I'd rule Marion out for that one, but the other one, h'mm, yes, there are similarities. I say pass it on to TLV team .... and let us know what they say .... and what they find out Just the fact of Dutch tourists there at the time of Marion's visit warrants attention - I mean, if he's a dentist. MOO

The 2 walking into the shop definitely look like tourists. I pondered whether that was a large brown belt around her midriff but you are probably right. It’s such a long shot. You’d expect to see Lord Lucan before Marion! The fact the Dutch tourists obviously liked their photography you just never know if they have other photos of The Pantiles that day. I think they visited the Day at the Wells museum and we know Marion also had a leaflet for that which was sent back to Oz. Can’t remember to whom.