Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[gymtonic]

I have always predicted that MB and RB would have to have arrived together so that he could get one of her cases and documents in the same locker as his small bag and both would then have a key to it.

If they arrived separately, this would not have worked.

Just a thought...Do we know for sure that the luggage was in a locker (with key). The reason I say that and I can't be absolutely sure about Heathrow at this time) was sometimes left luggage was a counter and you checked your luggage in and were given a ticketed number (receipt). Theoretically anyone with the numbered ticket retrieve the luggage.

 

[gymtonic]

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[gymtonic]

I believe, and correct me if I'm mistaken, RB supplied the extra bag for JO's winter clothes to be taken with her. At the inquest AC asked JO if her original bag, the one left in Amsterdam, was locked to which she replied "Oh yes, it had three locks on it". JO never bothered to retrieve this bag as it contained nothing of importance.
The whole bag 'thing' never made much sense to me at all. He had already taken possession of her documents which from memory, he kept in a small case with his initials R.L.W on it. If his testimony is to be believed, all he took with him was a small toiletry bag which leaves the document case and his silver suitcase in the Amsterdam locker with JO's suitcase.
If one of the bags contained something illegal, it wouldn't take a Sherlock Holmes to trace it back to him via JO so it can't be for that.
There IS a reason, I just can't figure it out yet!

Every time the suitcases get mentioned it reminds me of my favourite film "Frantic"!

 

[gymtonic]

Just listened to the latest episode of TLV. Reminds me of how preposterous and ludicrous some of the testimony was.

 

[Roseberry]

In order of likelihood:
1. It was the cheapest way
2.For business, as you say above
.
.
.
.
47.JO really wanted to go there and he agreed to it.

But that is interesting. He seems to be a total creature of habit and follows the same routes to the same places to the same countries - he has well-travelled rat-runs. Wonder if he's been there before.

Oh, and after the Narita disaster with MB in '97, he couldn't fly JAL anymore or through Narita. Didn't Mr C ask if he flew Garuda and he confirmed it?

or even more simply:

1. (a) he went there because he had access to cheap accommodation, such as a timeshare. Wasn't there (an admittedly anecdotal) report of a Remakel on the payroll of a timeshare opposite the Arts centre where MB told SL she met the mystery man in the car?

Just a thought, IMO.

 

[Roseberry]

Just listened to the latest episode of TLV. Reminds me of how preposterous and ludicrous some of the testimony was.

And isn't it interesting how when asked why things were done, there's a shrug of the shoulders and the muttered "fantasy".

There may be an element of truth to that:

All along, there appears to have been a quest for two elusive things: money, and identity.

To that end there are two collections:
-Cash and valuable coins
-Identities and aliases

Maybe the FNMR passport was so specific because there was simply a desire to add that ID to the collection - a passport being the most prized form of ID - and to play at being FNMR, albeit vicariously through MB's use of it.

Similarly, the request for JO to go blonde may have been to simply 'pretend' she was MC.

And what do we really know of MC? That she was willing to give an interview where she admitted to a brief affair where even from the start she had the measure of the man; aware of, and never falling for, the secret-agent fantasies. And that's maybe why that admiration is there - she was the one woman who was never taken in, or fell for the stories.

Could be super-wide of the mark, just IMO.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

In order of likelihood:
1. It was the cheapest way
2.For business, as you say above
.
.
.
.
47.JO really wanted to go there and he agreed to it.

But that is interesting. He seems to be a total creature of habit and follows the same routes to the same places to the same countries - he has well-travelled rat-runs. Wonder if he's been there before.

Oh, and after the Narita disaster with MB in '97, he couldn't fly JAL anymore or through Narita. Didn't Mr C ask if he flew Garuda and he confirmed it?

The Garuda confirmation may have been his daughters wedding I recall D confirm they went to Bali for that

 

[BabeBlues]

After listening to the latest podcast it reminded me when RB said in 1997 he saw an ad in the paper for a 'lady looking for a relationship' he said possibly in the Gold Coast Bulletin.
However in the 90's and 2000's before internet dating became the norm, the Sunday Mail was the biggest newspaper with at least one whole page dedicated to personal ads, seeking companionship. It used to be written under headings similar to Male Seeking Female, Female Seeking Male etc. This was the most widely distributed Sunday paper in South East Qld including Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and the Gold Coast.
I wonder if this was the newspaper RB claims to have seen the ad? Do any WS know how to search archives for personal ads in the Sunday Mail in 1997?

Edited to correct typo.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Duplicate deleted.
Anyone else having problems with the interface that is posting duplicates?

Yes always

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

After listening to the latest podcast it reminded me when RB said in 1997 he saw an ad in the paper for a 'lady looking for a relationship' he said possibly in the Gold Coast Bulletin.
However in the 90's and 2000's before internet dating became the norm, the Sunday Mail was the biggest newspaper with at least one whole page dedicated to personal ads, seeking companionship. It used to be written under headings similar to Male Seeking Female, Female Seeking Mail etc. This was the most widely distributed Sunday paper in South East Qld including Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and the Gold Coast.
I wonder if this was the newspaper RB claims to have seen the ad? Do any WS know how to search archives for personal ads in the Sunday Mail in 1997?

I don’t actually believe the story of MB placing an ad. I think he’s saying that to back up his story of no body contacting him with Le Courier ad in 94

 

[brjakj]

After listening to the latest podcast it reminded me when RB said in 1997 he saw an ad in the paper for a 'lady looking for a relationship' he said possibly in the Gold Coast Bulletin.
However in the 90's and 2000's before internet dating became the norm, the Sunday Mail was the biggest newspaper with at least one whole page dedicated to personal ads, seeking companionship. It used to be written under headings similar to Male Seeking Female, Female Seeking Mail etc. This was the most widely distributed Sunday paper in South East Qld including Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and the Gold Coast.
I wonder if this was the newspaper RB claims to have seen the ad? Do any WS know how to search archives for personal ads in the Sunday Mail in 1997?

Maybe try some of the online databases like factiva or gale. You can access them via the state library or national library if you have a membership

 

[KiwiNZ]

Does anyone think it’s possible they met up in Korea? and spent time there before continuing to London?

we always though Marion went to Korea but (podcast - inquest part 10) the TLV team confirmed she went to Japan, not sure how they know this, but we know RB flew to Japan

 

[BabeBlues]

Maybe try some of the online databases like factiva or gale. You can access them via the state library or national library if you have a membership

Looking through the state library Sunday Mail archives now and the Sunday Mail archives only go back to 2001, also they don't appear to archive classified ads as far as I can see so far.

 

[BabeBlues]

I don’t actually believe the story of MB placing an ad. I think he’s saying that to back up his story of no body contacting him with Le Courier ad in 94

Yes I doubt it is true too but though it could be worthwhile searching just in case.

 

[ChrysStevenson]

Looking through the state library Sunday Mail archives now and the Sunday Mail archives only go back to 2001, also they don't appear to archive classified ads as far as I can see so far.

You would need to go to the state library and go through the microfiche. It’s a laborious job!

I suspect there was a lonely hearts ad, but placed by him, not MB. In those days it was common to skim the ads - even if you weren’t really looking for love - just in case something leapt out at you. An ad similar to the Le Courrier ad might just have piqued MB’S interest.

My gut instinct tells me the Switzerland story is a fabrication. Maybe when they were swapping stories over dinner, MB told him that when JW was training in Switzerland some guy tried to pick her up at the hotel and RB said, “Eh bien! I was in Switzerland in the 60s too!”

And then, as narcissists and pathological liars do, he’s spun a fantasy in which *he* now plays the starring role - only in this version, the proposition is accepted. He might even believe it himself.

 

[Maddieb]

Just occurred to me…… maybe RB didn’t need to hide his passport from MB…. After all, he convinced her to change her name and probably told her it’s easy… as he’d done it before…..
He may have told her he forgets to introduce himself as new name or that he hasn’t gotten around to changing his name yet

 

[BabeBlues]

You would need to go to the state library and go through the microfiche. It’s a laborious job!

I suspect there was a lonely hearts ad, but placed by him, not MB. In those days it was common to skim the ads - even if you weren’t really looking for love - just in case something leapt out at you. An ad similar to the Le Courrier ad might just have piqued MB’S interest.

My gut instinct tells me the Switzerland story is a fabrication. Maybe when they were swapping stories over dinner, MB told him that when JW was training in Switzerland some guy tried to pick her up at the hotel and RB said, “Eh bien! I was in Switzerland in the 60s too!”

And then, as narcissists and pathological liars do, he’s spun a fantasy in which *he* now plays the starring role - only in this version, the proposition is accepted. He might even believe it himself.

I agree if there was an ad placed in 1997 it most likely would have been RB not MB. I unfortunately don't have the time to go to the Qld state library combing though the microfiche.

I think many of us agree the Switzerland meeting is completely untrue!

 

[Roseberry]

Just occurred to me…… maybe RB didn’t need to hide his passport from MB…. After all, he convinced her to change her name and probably told her it’s easy… as he’d done it before…..
He may have told her he forgets to introduce himself as new name or that he hasn’t gotten around to changing his name yet

Very possible. He did that with JO and she didn't seem to bat an eye. Except with MB she'd changed her name to his, which she thought was Remakel. If he suddenly produced a passport in the name of Westbury - that'd be real awkward.

 

[Roseberry]

I agree if there was an ad placed in 1997 it most likely would have been RB not MB. I unfortunately don't have the time to go to the Qld state library combing though the microfiche.

I think many of us agree the Switzerland meeting is completely untrue!

I agree MB would not have placed an ad. RB has a habit of twisting things around: GGB thought she must've been drugged - RB said she must've been on drugs. He said only ever placed one ad - that was not replied to - conversely it was MB seeking him out. The questioning on this may be because there's a need to know if he placed more ads. That's what needs to be found.

Agree the Switzerland tryst didn't happen - at least with MB - it was someone else in the past, but like the ads was designed to show that they, not him, make the first move.
Styling himself as the hunted, not the hunter. IMO.

And I don't think MB met him via an ad, she met him where she said she'd met him - through the Arts centre.

 

[John Bird]

Isn't it also rather preposterous that a 51-year old Australian woman thinks she could start a belly dancing career in Europe? So why take RB's word when she says nothing of the kind? It seems to me RB just makes up lies after lies in order to either mislead investigators or spin a web so elaborate that it complicates and drags out the enquiry. To me it is clear that RB knows a lot more than what he claims. If the MB case is ever to be solved, the key lies with RB.