Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[poppypopcorn]

Oh yes and on the Garuda thing - they were much cheaper in the 90s than flying Qantas and BA. Because they had a reputation for operating old aircraft and being lax with safety. Garuda was so shoddy that it was banned from EU airspace in the 2000s.

Flying Garuda does very much indicate it was a "cheapest ticket possible" scenario.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Left luggage - although security was ramped up hugely after 9/11, you have to remember that in the UK we had been living with the threat of IRA attacks through the 70s to 90s. The Good Friday Agreement wasn't signed until 1998, the Omagh Bombing was the same year. The IRA targetted high-profile London targets through the 80s and 90s - Harrods, Downing Street, Hyde Park.

There was still over the counter bag drop / storage but they would have had sniffer dogs around. All they were sniffing for was explosives though, not drugs/money. No chance of getting records or CCTV from that time though.

Do we know for sure that Marion flew from Narita to London? She says she did and said that was her destination on her departure card, but how do we know she didn't fly to Amsterdam? Met by Mr AKA, then the convoluted overnight ferry and onto Sussex that way.

 

[ruby925]

Left luggage - although security was ramped up hugely after 9/11, you have to remember that in the UK we had been living with the threat of IRA attacks through the 70s to 90s. The Good Friday Agreement wasn't signed until 1998, the Omagh Bombing was the same year. The IRA targetted high-profile London targets through the 80s and 90s - Harrods, Downing Street, Hyde Park.

There was still over the counter bag drop / storage but they would have had sniffer dogs around. All they were sniffing for was explosives though, not drugs/money. No chance of getting records or CCTV from that time though.

Do we know for sure that Marion flew from Narita to London? She says she did and said that was her destination on her departure card, but how do we know she didn't fly to Amsterdam? Met by Mr AKA, then the convoluted overnight ferry and onto Sussex that way.

I have obviously missed this, I thought it was known MB departed for Seoul on Korean, but the Narita connection was because of the stationery and not any confirmed details. So did MB confirm Narita in a letter/postcard?

 

[Jay_Tec]

Hello everyone, I'm new and have been reading through all the threads.

I'm so glad for Sally and her family that the truth is coming out now but it's a heartbreaking situation.

I have some questions / anomalies / observations to make if anyone could be so kind as to respond:

- Around the time of Marion quitting the school, was there actual stolen property? The con artist could have snuck off with books or ornaments of value? Or at least scoped out the school off the back of his connection with her and burgled it, seems like his style.

- Has there ever been any proof / sighting / formal statement by the recipient of the post-card that allegedly arrived at the end of August 1997?
( If not, I would respectfully suggest that it's been an error and is a huge red herring in this case )

- Is there any proof or suggestion that Marion spent any time whatsoever with 'The Perpetrator' in the UK?
(If not, it seems to me she was exploring alone, having possibly following some instructions or ideas suggested by him, possibly having gone separate ways at the airport - him off to 'do business' elsewhere and then an agreement to meet up again soon at a port or airport for a romantic trip on the Orient Express, obviously he could not allow that to happen so he was on a pressured time line to strip her of all her assets)

- Is there any evidence of tickets being booked and cancelled for the Orient Express ? By her or him ? At least they would have sent out brochures / price lists etc ?
(If not, I suggest as per above, Marion's strong desire to complete this aspect of travel, surely together with her new beau, would have been causing considerable disruption and loss of control to The Perpetrator)

Personally, sadly, my opinion only, is that Marion was removed from the equation by the perpetrator(s) at about the time she made the last phone call to Sally stating she would be out of contact for a while. I believe that would be when she sadly met her demise. I do not see any evidence to suggest she made it back to Australia. If she survived beyond that time, I suspect it could only have been at the behest of the perpetrators forcing her against her will - after the 'gloves are off' and 'the mask has slipped' - in order they drain her bank account. For that, it would have meant numerous visits to the bank under duress, at threat, and pretty much at gun point sort of situation, it's too flawed and unrealistic surely.

If Marion herself had wanted to access or transfer her funds to the UK or anywhere in Europe in order to remove chunks of cash overseas, she would have been able to negotiate with her bank, change arrangements, over the phone and by fax, possibly even using DHL / FedEx signed documents, it would not have necessitated a physical journey back to Australia just to do. Had she wanted to visit Australia to make alterations to her finances, I believe she would have happily met up with family members.

People's personalities and behaviour does not dramatically alter in their 50s. Marion sounds to be a warm 'people person' who had a lot of different experiences with a wide range of people of a wide range of ages. She had children, siblings, friends, colleagues, and was well respected and liked by the children and their parents. Her 'vulnerability' was the desire to have a romantic love object. She is way less vulnerable than many 50 year old women who get fleeced. She had survived difficult relationships, even ones where it seems times were fraught and there was suggestion of domestic violence.

This perpetrator needed to ensure they didn't actually spend any quality sustained time together with Marion in order to do what they did - she would have seen through him - and we know that days of sex in bed are not part of the equation. She wouldn't have submitted to violent or financial or psychological abuse, she would have removed herself from a man who had disappointed her and come home tearful but safe. I truly believe this. I don't think flight cards in her handwriting are enough to prove a skilled fraudster didn't write them - in the old days forging hand writing and signatures was a basic tool of fraud.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I have obviously missed this, I thought it was known MB departed for Seoul on Korean, but the Narita connection was because of the stationery and not any confirmed details. So did MB confirm Narita in a letter/postcard?

I'd forgotten about the Seoul thing.

Either way, you could not fly from Asia into any other airport than Heathrow in the 90s.

 

[Untangle]

RB & JO did go to Bali before Amsterdam (I think Amsterdam was their next stop). Why? Definitely not for vacation. Are Bali/Japan places he hides assets? Sells documents? Place for new scams? There must be a reason.

There seems to be a WC from Belgium living in Bali. (WW's first name and his mother MC's last name). Looks to be perhaps in his seventies. WC is also one of the names RB has used as an alias.

Could he be related to RB, and a reason for RB to stop by Bali?

 

[Carovb5]

It would be easy to track it to the name he was using when he was with Ilona, but not to other (un)known names.

If he had an accomplice he could easily let them pick up the suitcase/bag/illegal stuff.

Maybe he also ran a drugmule scam where he made sure it would get the woman in trouble, not him? I’m NOT saying that’s true or that i think that’s what happened, just summing up possibilities fyi.

I believe, and correct me if I'm mistaken, RB supplied the extra bag for JO's winter clothes to be taken with her. At the inquest AC asked JO if her original bag, the one left in Amsterdam, was locked to which she replied "Oh yes, it had three locks on it". JO never bothered to retrieve this bag as it contained nothing of importance.
The whole bag 'thing' never made much sense to me at all. He had already taken possession of her documents which from memory, he kept in a small case with his initials R.L.W on it. If his testimony is to be believed, all he took with him was a small toiletry bag which leaves the document case and his silver suitcase in the Amsterdam locker with JO's suitcase.
If one of the bags contained something illegal, it wouldn't take a Sherlock Holmes to trace it back to him via JO so it can't be for that.
There IS a reason, I just can't figure it out yet!

 

[Carovb5]

There seems to be a WC from Belgium living in Bali. (WW's first name and his mother MC's last name). Looks to be perhaps in his seventies. WC is also one of the names RB has used as an alias.

Could he be related to RB, and a reason for RB to stop by Bali?

Or he stole his name, like he did before in Luxemburg… What’s the birth date of mr aka’s W.C? And of the W.C. in Bali?
Just curious because he used the same birthdate as the real Luxemburger with his Luxemburg-alias

 

[ruby925]

I'd forgotten about the Seoul thing.

Either way, you could not fly from Asia into any other airport than Heathrow in the 90s.

You are right, Cathay Pacific stopped flying into Gatwick in 1993, I am not when All Nippon transferred from Gatwick to Heathrow, but it was probably around the same time when the UK gov lifted restrictions on Heathrow.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I have obviously missed this, I thought it was known MB departed for Seoul on Korean, but the Narita connection was because of the stationery and not any confirmed details. So did MB confirm Narita in a letter/postcard?

It was on a recent podcast - AS confirm Marion went to Japan - however she gave no background to that statement

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am just listening to the latest podcast and am now veering away from the smuggling theory. The one way air fare for JO and return for RB, leaving her stranded in UK etc when he has power of attorney does suggest a scam all about the money/assets.

For me smuggling is even more plausible since he didn't pay for her return ticket, easier to distance himself if she is caught.

However having 2 schemes going at once - drug smuggling and fraud - is a stretch but this guys is a professional con

 

[Untangle]

Or he stole his name, like he did before in Luxemburg… What’s the birth date of mr aka’s W.C? And of the W.C. in Bali?
Just curious because he used the same birthdate as the real Luxemburger with his Luxemburg-alias

I believe WC is a name that RB has used in more recent years, so I don't think we have seen any documents that shows a birthdate. And I don't know the birthdate of the WC in Bali.

 

[Roseberry]

My hypothesis is that it was both. The romance scams were a sideline.

Agree. Possible evidence for that is the repeated questioning re origin of the cheap JAL airfares and maybe the scenarios surrounding luggage. RB has fingers in a lot of pies.

If it's smuggling, it's on behalf, unless its moving the little stuff fenced from Oz OS. He's the mule but he's delegating it to the unwitting women.

That's answers the cheap tickets. If not the main game, the romance scams are his cut or him creaming it, and also feeds into the fantasy side of things.

 

[Roseberry]

Agreed. But back in the 90s, Stansted and Luton weren't the big airports they are today. EasyJet didn't start flying out of Luton in any big way until about 1999, and RyanAir was at Stansted but not operating many flights. Luton at that time was primarily a charter holiday flight airport. There were definitely no long-haul flights coming into Stansted or Luton.

I get what the previous poster meant that Marion may not have known there was more than 1 airport in London but she had travelled to the UK before in the 60s and probably through Heathrow. JAL operated through Terminal 3 in Heathrow in the 90s (definitely, I flew with them to Japan in 1999 from there) and BA operated longhaul through Terminal 4. Most other airlines flying to Aus or the Far East like Cathay Pacific, Garuda, Quantas used Heathrow.

It is a bit odd that if Mr AKA was travelling from south of London (Tunbridge Wells, Burwash) to Belgium or France thar he went north through London and Essex, on to Harwich in Suffolk then a ferry to Hook of Holland/Rotterdam and on from there to Amsterdam/Belgium, rather than taking the MUCH more simple journey down to Dover, over to Calais and north through Belgium.

But not much he does makes sense.

Best evidence for MB's movements is what she wrote herself:departure cards, on postcards (luggage in LHR) and letter from Japan hotel. She might be being evasive about the romance, but she has no reason to lie about her physical movements. She's not the one trying to cover her tracks.

It was suggested that MR Aka took that route because it was the quickest way to get back to Amsterdam and the stored luggage. Wasn't interested in Belgium this trip, just luggage and back to Oz. Time pressure.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

In the inquest when asked did you take JO to Tunbridge Wells “certainly not” came the reply. You can then hear someone on microphone whisper “why certainly?”

 

[Jay_Tec]

There seems to be a WC from Belgium living in Bali. (WW's first name and his mother MC's last name). Looks to be perhaps in his seventies. WC is also one of the names RB has used as an alias.

Could he be related to RB, and a reason for RB to stop by Bali?

When you say 'living' in Bali ? In what format do they appear recorded as existing? It is perhaps quite literally an alias? I would suspect so given the close age and name.

 

[Roseberry]

Entirely hypothetically, if you were sending goods with a mule from Australia, there would be no need to travel with them. But if the goods were in, say, Bali, you would need to travel with the mule.

If there was a problem, you could always deny you were travelling together, and point to the fact you had different kinds of tickets - yours return, and the mule’s one-way. MOO

100% agree. What's an hypothesis for what went wrong to in Japan that meant RB could never return? Caught by authorities there? Whatever it was it didn't seem to affect MB.

 

[Carovb5]

As i know/knew some of you were searching for info about the children’s home, i’m gonnq post this here. No proof it’s him/connected but maybe unknown&related info…

I just bumped online into a blog from someone searching for people from her old children’s home in Nukerk, Belgium.

She mentions a P. Van Coppenolle.
(Name known, but because i don’t know if he has anything to do with this case, i’m gonna stick with ‘P.’)

When i searched for P. Van Coppenolle i stumbled upon his sisters obituary. (C. Van Coppenolle, born in 1951)

She was born in & died in Tournai.

May or may not be linked…

 

[Roseberry]

100% agree. What's an hypothesis for what went wrong to in Japan that meant RB could never return? Caught by authorities there? Whatever it was it didn't seem to affect MB.

So both ways? Bali-Amsterdam then Amsterdam-Australia? Or is it just Amsterdam to Australia?
If the former, then there maybe was a meet-up with MB in Japan.
Is that what maybe happened in Japan? On a run prior to meeting MB and a suitcase was flagged and he got away with it because they couldn't connect it to him? IMO.

 

[Jay_Tec]

I imagine right now there's all sorts of international institutions, detectives, bounty hunters, security / intelligence forces, police forces, aggrieved parties, claimants, queuing up wanting to interview, charge, detain, or serve papers warrants or notices on Mr AKA. Ex or concurrent wives even maybe?? Just my own creative speculation of course.