Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[Deleted member 249471]

Thinking about timeline upon return to Aus… the RACV cancellation is unusual and might shed light on Marion’s final days.

For starters, cancelling her membership 5 days upon return to Aus is a weird thing to do.

If she returned alone to try to extract herself from RB and his con, RACV would’ve been the last thing on her mind.

If she was tying up loose ends to move overseas permanently, would she really yank the membership for the car Sally now used, without telling Sally? Let alone, not telling Sally she was permanently leaving? That’s also weird.

Perhaps Marion or RB received a letter for a bill (today it’s about $100 per month / $1000 per year) and that prompted them to cancel it? But where would the bill be sent? It couldn’t have been Leslie’s. And I doubt it was RB’s house.

It’s worth noting that if you pay upfront and you decide to cancel, it takes weeks to process but you get a refund.

The two most straightforward theories I can think of are:

1. RB went through Marion’s wallet to see if he could milk anything else out of her. Perhaps he wondered if he could transfer the membership to his new vehicle? But he couldn’t so he just took the refund. For reference, RACV was cancelled on Thur and the car purchased on Mon.

This theory would mean that RB already had control Marion’s wallet and therefore, possibly her bank cards (so he could start withdrawing her funds), and her Medicare to visit optometrist. Also worth noting: DdH wears glasses.

2. RACV and medicare were used simply to make it look as though Marion was still alive. It would look very suspicious if Marion returned from overseas ONLY to withdraw wads of cash and disappear never to be seen again. The activity definitely makes you consider that she really did return and might've withdrawn the money herself.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The other thing that screams out from the timeline is where was 'Marion' between mid Sept and mid Oct? Why activity? What would have prevented them from withdrawing the Ashmore cash sooner? What could RB have been busy doing instead, at that time of year? Coin expo? School carnival? Horse racing? Would love to hear your ideas

 

[Jay_Tec]

Thinking about timeline upon return to Aus… the RACV cancellation is unusual and might shed light on Marion’s final days.

For starters, cancelling her membership 5 days upon return to Aus is a weird thing to do.

If she returned alone to try to extract herself from RB and his con, RACV would’ve been the last thing on her mind.

If she was tying up loose ends to move overseas permanently, would she really yank the membership for the car Sally now used, without telling Sally? Let alone, not telling Sally she was permanently leaving? That’s also weird.

Perhaps Marion or RB received a letter for a bill (today it’s about $100 per month / $1000 per year) and that prompted them to cancel it? But where would the bill be sent? It couldn’t have been Leslie’s. And I doubt it was RB’s house.

It’s worth noting that if you pay upfront and you decide to cancel, it takes weeks to process but you get a refund.

The two most straightforward theories I can think of are:

1. RB went through Marion’s wallet to see if he could milk anything else out of her. Perhaps he wondered if he could transfer the membership to his new vehicle? But he couldn’t so he just took the refund. For reference, RACV was cancelled on Thur and the car purchased on Mon.

This theory would mean that RB already had control Marion’s wallet and therefore, possibly her bank cards (so he could start withdrawing her funds), and her Medicare to visit optometrist. Also worth noting: DdH wears glasses.

2. RACV and medicare were used simply to make it look as though Marion was still alive. It would look very suspicious if Marion returned from overseas ONLY to withdraw wads of cash and disappear never to be seen again. The activity definitely makes you consider that she really did return and might've withdrawn the money herself.

What are your thoughts?

As I don't believe Marion returned to Aus, I believe she was abandoned by Wonka in the UK pretty much as JO had been... or worse actually, then it wasn't her 'tying up lose ends' it was the Wonkas. In terms of how Marion existed on paper and existed by dint of accounts and possessions they literally closed her down. I suppose this was done very swiftly and efficiently which could pertain to that they needed to job done fast before Marion materialised in person - or - knowing that Marion's physical being had been fully extinguished they wanted to steal everything possible, wash their hands of, and close off any connections real fast.

I wonder where DdH parked this white car? Did her neighbours, friends, and the children even know she had it and was driving it ?

 

[Meligator]

The other thing that screams out from the timeline is where was 'Marion' between mid Sept and mid Oct? Why activity? What would have prevented them from withdrawing the Ashmore cash sooner? What could RB have been busy doing instead, at that time of year? Coin expo? School carnival? Horse racing? Would love to hear your ideas

I agree this break is particularly weird. I would love to know if RB traveled overseas at this time. In my opinion, the scam was still well underway at this time. I suspect MB was still planning to return to UK, with RB—to start their new life together. After she got all the 5k dollar increments out, I’m guessing RB had some reason he needed to disappear for a few weeks and then returned mid-October and they emptied the rest of her money.

 

[Satchie]

Thinking about timeline upon return to Aus… the RACV cancellation is unusual and might shed light on Marion’s final days.

For starters, cancelling her membership 5 days upon return to Aus is a weird thing to do.

If she returned alone to try to extract herself from RB and his con, RACV would’ve been the last thing on her mind.

If she was tying up loose ends to move overseas permanently, would she really yank the membership for the car Sally now used, without telling Sally? Let alone, not telling Sally she was permanently leaving? That’s also weird.

Perhaps Marion or RB received a letter for a bill (today it’s about $100 per month / $1000 per year) and that prompted them to cancel it? But where would the bill be sent? It couldn’t have been Leslie’s. And I doubt it was RB’s house.

It’s worth noting that if you pay upfront and you decide to cancel, it takes weeks to process but you get a refund.

The two most straightforward theories I can think of are:

1. RB went through Marion’s wallet to see if he could milk anything else out of her. Perhaps he wondered if he could transfer the membership to his new vehicle? But he couldn’t so he just took the refund. For reference, RACV was cancelled on Thur and the car purchased on Mon.

This theory would mean that RB already had control Marion’s wallet and therefore, possibly her bank cards (so he could start withdrawing her funds), and her Medicare to visit optometrist. Also worth noting: DdH wears glasses.

2. RACV and medicare were used simply to make it look as though Marion was still alive. It would look very suspicious if Marion returned from overseas ONLY to withdraw wads of cash and disappear never to be seen again. The activity definitely makes you consider that she really did return and might've withdrawn the money herself.

What are your thoughts?

Perhaps it was in her old name, and was just part of the process of creating a new identity that couldn't be linked to the old identity.

ETA: we know Marion embarked on this conspiracy/process voluntarily, by changing her name and going abroad with RB, without telling any of her children, friends or other family. I don't know how/why she was convinced to do this, if someone proposed such a scheme to me I like to believe I would flat out refuse, no matter how much I was in love.

So I assume MB's thought processes had already sharply deviated from the norm back in April when she sold her house. So I personally don't expect her subsequent actions to make any sense, either.

JMO

 

[Satchie]

It was interesting, in hearing GGB's account, that she says RB threatened that a complaint would be made against her for (it seems) abusing children in her care, and that around the time she'd broken with him, a complaint had been lodged.

I wonder whether this was a source of control over MB, the rumours of abuse swirling around her...possibly could be used to convince her (supportively and maybe with threats) to take on a new identity that couldn't be connected with these allegations...

Just an idea.

 

[Jay_Tec]

A little off topic - I'm just reading up on the unsolved mystery of Jennifer Fergate / Fairgate, found dead in a Hotel in Oslo 1995.

Nobody knows why she used the name but there was simultaneously a mysterious Mr F - a French speaking Belgian man staying in the room opposite her who has never been formally interviewed by police but is known.

It is incredible that this poor young woman was found dead with nearly all her luggage, paperwork, and personal effects missing, that she was found shot through the head with no way she had pulled the trigger using her own hands. And yet, declared dead of a suicide.

How many unidentified women (or men?) have been found dead in hotels around the world and declared dead of suicide with barely any investigation?

 

[ruby925]

I agree this break is particularly weird. I would love to know if RB traveled overseas at this time. In my opinion, the scam was still well underway at this time. I suspect MB was still planning to return to UK, with RB—to start their new life together. After she got all the 5k dollar increments out, I’m guessing RB had some reason he needed to disappear for a few weeks and then returned mid-October and they emptied the rest of her money.

Could be as simple as he had to go home for a few weeks, he had left Aus in June so time to play husband for a while in Sept?

 

[Satchie]

A little off topic - I'm just reading up on the unsolved mystery of Jennifer Fergate / Fairgate, found dead in a Hotel in Oslo 1995.

Nobody knows why she used the name but there was simultaneously a mysterious Mr F - a French speaking Belgian man staying in the room opposite her who has never been formally interviewed by police but is known.

It is incredible that this poor young woman was found dead with nearly all her luggage, paperwork, and personal effects missing, that she was found shot through the head with no way she had pulled the trigger using her own hands. And yet, declared dead of a suicide.

How many unidentified women (or men?) have been found dead in hotels around the world and declared dead of suicide with barely any investigation?

Norway - Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

I'm not convinced of the 'barely any investigation' part. I am cautious because internet 'unsolved mystery' sites likes to leave out details in order to enhance the mystery/conspiracy for readers (such as electronic doors that record whenever a door is opened).

JMO

 

[Jay_Tec]

Going back to a line of questioning in the inquest, can anyone explain or suggest, what is the issue about Wonka flying with a Japanese airline on discount and then suddenly stopping doing so ? Was he (rightly or wrongly) travelling on an airline staff family member discount or something ?

That might explain why so many flights as some airlines used to give huge discounts for staff and their close family members.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Norway - Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

I'm not convinced of the 'barely any investigation' part. I am cautious because internet 'unsolved mystery' sites likes to leave out details in order to enhance the mystery/conspiracy for readers (such as electronic doors that record whenever a door is opened).

JMO

Well this is the wrong place to debate that case but I'm reading the following site and if what they say is true, it is clear that no forensics were conducted, bedding was removed and binned, the room was cleaned, very few people were interviewed, police / hotel staff declared it a suicide and that was pretty much that. So much of it makes no sense and even the door locking / entry system isn't quite as described.

Mystery at the Oslo Plaza

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Great timeline, @Peralta. Thank you! Another question it raises for me is -- why wait a couple of weeks before withdrawing the money? If she "returned" Aug 13 and the money was not begun to be dispersed until late Aug, as you write. If someone meant to come back briefly, seems they'd start the process right away. Gosh, you're all convincing me that Marion did not return.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Another thanks to @Peralta for the BAD VEGAN series on Netflix. If you do not understand how Marion could go through with what she did, watch this true crime documentary and you'll see how complex the relationship between con man and victim is. I had to fast forward through a bunch because it was so painful to watch (but mesmerizing.) The danger this victim and other victims face is a fog that totally blinds them, scrambles their brains, and renders them powerless. Just like in domestic abuse.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

One more important point about BAD VEGAN and love scams -- in the beginning the con artist entices the victim so that she believes she's the winner! The trickster appears wealthy, say, so the victim imagines having all that wealth. The trickster proposes a get-rich scheme, so the victim imagines sharing in the bounty. In the beginning, the con artist always offers money as much as or more than love. If we apply that to Marion, then this is more than just a travel companion. Wonka offered her a vision of great wealth or a get-rich business plan. In that way, the victim is willing prey and gets suckered in gradually until they're drowning and don't know top from bottom.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Thinking about timeline upon return to Aus… the RACV cancellation is unusual and might shed light on Marion’s final days.

For starters, cancelling her membership 5 days upon return to Aus is a weird thing to do.

If she returned alone to try to extract herself from RB and his con, RACV would’ve been the last thing on her mind.

If she was tying up loose ends to move overseas permanently, would she really yank the membership for the car Sally now used, without telling Sally? Let alone, not telling Sally she was permanently leaving? That’s also weird.

Perhaps Marion or RB received a letter for a bill (today it’s about $100 per month / $1000 per year) and that prompted them to cancel it? But where would the bill be sent? It couldn’t have been Leslie’s. And I doubt it was RB’s house.

It’s worth noting that if you pay upfront and you decide to cancel, it takes weeks to process but you get a refund.

The two most straightforward theories I can think of are:

1. RB went through Marion’s wallet to see if he could milk anything else out of her. Perhaps he wondered if he could transfer the membership to his new vehicle? But he couldn’t so he just took the refund. For reference, RACV was cancelled on Thur and the car purchased on Mon.

This theory would mean that RB already had control Marion’s wallet and therefore, possibly her bank cards (so he could start withdrawing her funds), and her Medicare to visit optometrist. Also worth noting: DdH wears glasses.

2. RACV and medicare were used simply to make it look as though Marion was still alive. It would look very suspicious if Marion returned from overseas ONLY to withdraw wads of cash and disappear never to be seen again. The activity definitely makes you consider that she really did return and might've withdrawn the money herself.

What are your thoughts?

Thinking about RACQ membership.. perhaps Marion was cranky, SL was supposed to sell Marions car and hadn’t….Marion thought stuff it, I’m cancelling the membership!

There was the conversation on memory of what’s happening with the car?

Was the car purchased in Qld or NSW? Registered in which state?

the reason given at inquest by Mrs Wonka was their daughter had a job she needed to get to work.. but that theory doesn’t hold up as she would have not have been able to drive the car without a full licensed driver with her…she would have been. ‘L’ plate driver at the time.

I believe it was purchased for Mr Wonka to go to and fro… to his family and to wherever Marion was.

When did Wonka then sell the car? Wasn’t it the end of 97? IMO car was used for a specific purpose during a specific time frame…

and that purpose had nothing to do with Daughter needing a car. If that were true the car wouldn’t have been sold before she turned 17 and able to actually drive it.

 

[Satchie]

One more important point about BAD VEGAN and love scams -- in the beginning the con artist entices the victim so that she believes she's the winner! The trickster appears wealthy, say, so the victim imagines having all that wealth. The trickster proposes a get-rich scheme, so the victim imagines sharing in the bounty. In the beginning, the con artist always offers money as much as or more than love. If we apply that to Marion, then this is more than just a travel companion. Wonka offered her a vision of great wealth or a get-rich business plan. In that way, the victim is willing prey and gets suckered in gradually until they're drowning and don't know top from bottom.

Yes, like the Nigerian Prince scam.

I noticed in JOs story, RB claimed to have $12 million, and assured her that if anything happened to him, she and her sons would be taken care of. This somehow morphed into JO giving him power of attorney over her affairs..., which is very confusing. I think he must have argued the POA would make it easier for him to give her sons money if anything happened to her.

JMO

ETA wrote Marion by mistake.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Yes, like the Nigerian Prince scam.

I noticed in JOs story, RB claimed to have $12 million, and assured her that if anything happened to him, she and her sons would be taken care of. This somehow morphed into JO giving him power of attorney over her affairs..., which is very confusing. I think he must have argued the POA would make it easier for him to give her sons money if anything happened to her.

JMO

ETA wrote Marion by mistake.

IMO anyone who openly tells you they have 12 mil… clearly doesn’t have 12 mil - red flag No 1

 

[Deleted member 249471]

When did Wonka then sell the car? Wasn’t it the end of 97? IMO car was used for a specific purpose during a specific time frame…

Timeline upon return to Aus
Late 1996
The dH family move from 16 Howards Cres, Ballina to 8 Rubiton St, Wollingbar. Daughter is driven to high school every day, son goes to Lismore Uni by public transport, both live at house.

Thur 31 July 1997
Arrives in Aus: Richard Lloyd Westbury

Sat 2 Aug 1997
Arrives in Aus: Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel

Thur 7 Aug 1997
RACQ membership and policy cancelled by either phone call or in person

Mon 11 Aug 1997
FDdH bought a white, second-hand Mitsibishi Magna

Wed 13 Aug 1997
Marion’s Medicare card used at optometrist at Grafton Shoppingworld

Late Aug - early Sept 1997
$5k withdrawn daily for 3.5 weeks at Commonwealth Byron, and 3 days in middle at Burleigh Heads, totalling between $85k to $120k

Mid Sept - mid Oct 1997
What are ‘Marion’s’ movements for this month? Why is there no activity?

Fri 15 Oct 1997
$80k withdrawn from Colonial State Bank, Ashmore

Mon 18 Oct 1997
Owen’s birthday, no one’s heard from Marion which is completely out of character

Thur 21 - Wed 22 Oct 1997
Sally calls a friend at customs who tell her Marion returned to Aus. Also calls Commonwealth telebanking who inform her of Byron Bay withdrawals. Makes missing person report at Byron Police.

Sun 30 Nov 1997
Mitsibishi Magna sold

Late 1997
The dH family move from Wollingbar back to ‘The Terrace’, Ballina

Car sold Sun 30 Nov 1997
46 days after the last of the money was withdrawn
39 days after Sally went to police

Not sure which state or who's registration it was under (I think it was under Diane in NSW) but the Reg was: PVC096

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

S

Car sold Sun 30 Nov 1997
46 days after the last of the money was withdrawn
39 days after Sally went to police

Not sure which state or who's registration it was under (I think it was under Diane in NSW) but the Reg was: PVC096

So it WAS purchased for a specific purpose. Which had nothing to do with Mrs Wonka and the children.
IMO Marion was in that car with Mr Wonka.. and car was sold for that reason.
Good lord who buys and sells a car after 46 days.
Oh this case does my head in

 

[Meligator]

What if the car was the one thing that allowed Marion to identify RB? If she had become suspicious & made notice of the car tag,he may have known it wasn’t safe for him to just disappear like he did with other women. Is the car the reason she had to go missing?