Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[BonnieB]

I don’t think it’s as elaborate as hypnotic trance the cult of two.
I think he’s a pure narcissist. Love bombed a vulnerable woman, to the point that she believed him, trusted him and most likely loved him. Narcissists are a breed of their own. Predictable yet unpredictable all at the same time. When the love bombing stops the victim is empty worthless alone.. and the only thing that eases that is the narcissist.. it draws the victim back… and a bit of love bombing again confirms to the victim - oh they do love me, I feel better now.. and the cycle continues..

The cycle of love/abuse/love begins to increase.. the victim begins to doubt themselves not the narcissist.

And that is when the narcissist has complete control.. the victim is now no longer functioning without the narcissist.

They will do whatever is asked… to keep the peace, to try and get back the initial love bomb feeling, and…..through fear .. of what the narcissist will do if they don’t comply.

To anyone who has been involved with a narcissist on any level and managed to escape the toxic relationship most are amazed at the control the person once had over them, and many can’t even explain how it got to that stage.

Well said @Eyespywithmylittleeye, that's exactly how it works. The narcissist seems to know when the victim is regaining some commonsense/control and the "love bomb" sucks them straight back in. I describe it as "living on a roller coaster".

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Well said @Eyespywithmylittleeye, that's exactly how it works. The narcissist seems to know when the victim is regaining some commonsense/control and the "love bomb" sucks them straight back in. I describe it as "living on a roller coaster".

That’s exactly what it is. Perfect analogy

 

[Itsapuzzle]

We seem to be in two camps… Marion returned to Australia.. Marion Didn’t. We don’t have 100% answers but we have opinions..
I’m in the camp she returned…
What happened next I have no idea???

but I am curious what other sleuths think…
What camp are you in..?

I'm in the returned camp .... she'd had around 41 days overseas, so not exactly rushing back if RB got her to return on some pretext of getting things sorted back home before moving permanently to Luxembourg, and after that she would be free to inform her family and friends of the good news. Random theory at this point.

 

[BonnieB]

I'm in the returned camp .... she'd had around 41 days overseas, so not exactly rushing back if RB got her to return on some pretext of getting things sorted back home before moving permanently to Luxembourg, and after that she would be free to inform her family and friends of the good news. Random theory at this point.

Agree. Somehow, he managed to convince Marion of the need of temporary secrecy which probably added to the excitement of their love affair. As a wealthy and well-known ex-footballer with business interests in Europe, it may have been publicity, or perhaps the old line of working for the Government undercover. Who knows what BS he conned her with, but there was always the promise of a rainbow at the end. That's what keeps the victim hooked.

 

[centred]

Car purchased 11/8/97 according to my timeline.

Thanks BonnieB, h'mm, that is interesting. Marion's RACQ cancelled on a Thursday and RB purchases a car on the Monday.

Re the car , obviously LE found proof of the purchase and or ownership of the car and that MB had cancelled the road service and it seems these 2 things maybe connected , so was the car registered in what name ? I assume in one of his alias ?

I believe in QLD road service is based on the name of a person to be accessed in any vehicle driven by that person ,as in MB case and car rego in QLD however in NSW access applies to the actual rego number of a particular vehicle .

So for example if Marion brought a vehicle in NSW her QLD road service would be void if she wanted road service in NSW . So she would have to purchase road service in NSW connected to the new vehicle rego number .

edit add ...I cannot see any any other reason to bother cancelling the QLD road service when she returned , you would assume it would just lapse .

IMO either way , her money paid for that vehicle

Just putting this out there to chew on ...

 

[auntywithflowers]

I can't see why Marion would withdraw $5,000 a day for weeks. That is a very obsessive crazy thing to do, because she is the account holder and would have had full access to her funds.
There was no reason for her to do that.
If the money was in a savings account, she had access to all funds in 1 transaction.
If the money was in a term deposit account, the first withdrawal, would have voided the terms and conditions immediately. Yes she would have been charges associated with closing the account, but not that much. She would have immediately had access to the full amount. There is no valid reason for her to physically go to the bank every day and withdraw $5,000.
I believe someone else has withdrawn the money daily in $5,000 increments, to avoid a situation where the bank would question and require a thorough check, as to why a large sum of money was needed in cash only.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Agree. Somehow, he managed to convince Marion of the need of temporary secrecy which probably added to the excitement of their love affair. As a wealthy and well-known ex-footballer with business interests in Europe, it may have been publicity, or perhaps the old line of working for the Government undercover. Who knows what BS he conned her with, but there was always the promise of a rainbow at the end. That's what keeps the victim hooked.

Perhaps she knew he was married? Promise of leaving wife etc ? Returning to Australia to finalise divorce and sort out their ‘new’ finances together as a couple

edit. You can’t divorce until separated for 12 months however Marion may have thought he was hence relationship starting and not questioning if needing to return ?

 

[Meligator]

Would someone be able purchase the roadside service before purchasing/registering the car? For example, could RB have gone (with MB) to an office on 11/8 to purchase roadside assistance ahead of his car purchase, and while there Marion takes that opportunity to cancel her’s (like we happen to be here at the office, I might as well just cancel since I don’t need it?)

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Would someone be able purchase the roadside service before purchasing/registering the car? For example, could RB have gone (with MB) to an office on 11/8 to purchase roadside assistance ahead of his car purchase, and while there Marion takes that opportunity to cancel her’s (like we happen to be here at the office, I might as well just cancel since I don’t need it?)

I think you need the number plate to be able to purchase… but I wonder if they can be transferred? Eg. If you are NRMA in NsW and something happens you can call RACV vic for road side assist so maybe they can be transferred??

 

[mishy66]

Why do you think RB admitting knowing MB? Yes the police had evidence he placed the Lennox Head ad & that he traveled overseas within a few days of MB. But none of that proves he knew her. He could have just said that he placed the ad, but never met Marion and his travel dates are just a coincidence. He’s completely fine saying he knows nothing about Renov Pubs (despite it being in several of his names) & various other ridiculous lies. The absurdity of the lie doesn’t seem to bother him. So why not lie about Marion? And why add extraneous details like holding her belongings and visiting her school? Makes me think there is more solid evidence of their connection. Evidence that he needed to provide an excuse for (e.g., yes someone saw me with that art, but I was just storing it for a couple days….something like that).

I think the rest of the inquest could be quite jaw dropping—although I still don’t know if it will lead to finding Marion.

I do think Pandora’s box is opened and Blum is toast

Agree completely with you on all of this.

 

[mishy66]

Of course he listened to the podcast...e v e r y word of it and probably more than once. Of course he read media reports. He would have studied the brief of evidence, page after page, and prepared his story accordingly. I am not fooled for one minute by his dithery old man act. He may be aging and he may well have health problems BUT he is a narcissistic, lying con-man to the bone. IMO.

Absolutely.
I'm not fooled one bit by his dithery ways either.
It's all an act and part of his game.

 

[centred]

I think you need the number plate to be able to purchase… but I wonder if they can be transferred? Eg. If you are NRMA in NsW and something happens you can call RACV vic for road side assist so maybe they can be transferred??

Would someone be able purchase the roadside service before purchasing/registering the car? For example, could RB have gone (with MB) to an office on 11/8 to purchase roadside assistance ahead of his car purchase, and while there Marion takes that opportunity to cancel her’s (like we happen to be here at the office, I might as well just cancel since I don’t need it?)

yes you need number plate to purchase road service in NSW . you also have i believe a certain amount of days to transfer any ownership re sold or purchased vehicles. so chances are the vehicle could have been purchased before the 11/8 but rego done later in new name . IMO LE found that rego , not the sale or purchase as that would be difficult to find , technically depending on due date of rego , you have 3 months to rego even after date expires as in getting it ready for renewal re repairs with a pink slip .

Edit to add ..it may have had only 3 months rego left for example so he sold before having to re register and paying for it

i only know about road service because when i bought a van in Qld it was rego in NSW so i rang Qld to find out about cover while still in QLD traveling .They covered me in my name until I returned to NSW .

 

[TootsieFootsie]

My thoughts exactly.

He wouldn't have owned up to knowing her, unless there was absolute proof that he did.

I was thinking that something tangible that linked him to Marion was found, either at a residence or in a bank.
It could be paperwork or one or more of her belongings.

It could be a witness who saw him with something that belonged to Marion, or maybe even saw them together.

Why do you think RB admitting knowing MB? Yes the police had evidence he placed the Lennox Head ad & that he traveled overseas within a few days of MB. But none of that proves he knew her. He could have just said that he placed the ad, but never met Marion and his travel dates are just a coincidence. He’s completely fine saying he knows nothing about Renov Pubs (despite it being in several of his names) & various other ridiculous lies. The absurdity of the lie doesn’t seem to bother him. So why not lie about Marion? And why add extraneous details like holding her belongings and visiting her school? Makes me think there is more solid evidence of their connection. Evidence that he needed to provide an excuse for (e.g., yes someone saw me with that art, but I was just storing it for a couple days….something like that).

 

[KittensAugustus]

I have come across an entry for a Willy Wouters, born 22.6.28, died 10.4.37 (8 years old).

I am not sure what the website is, it looks like a personally maintained genealogy resource. Buysmans

 

[Estelle]

I'm in the camp that Marion didn't return.

However, if she did, this would have required a very extreme brainwashing situation.

Predatory abusers, con artists, and narcissists can sometimes create what is known as 'the cult of two'. All the usual techniques of a cult apply but with only two people - the predator and the victim. A form of hypnotic trance state is induced in the victim using methods such as fear of consequences on the one hand and the lure of a promise on the other (future faking). At that point, the victim must be 100% disconnected from the outside world with no contact whatsoever to reality, including people and all forms of media. They must put all their faith and belief into the cult leader and have absolute compliance and have lost all form of perspective, critical analysis, cynicism, and rationale.

Were that to be the case, I can't imagine how Wonka could get Marion into such a deep trance state so quickly after spending little to no time with her in the UK and how that could be maintained whilst she took flights etc. Usually it takes a sustained period of isolation / captivity (even if voluntary) whereby the victim has had zero contact with the outside world whatsoever and developed a profound terror and paranoid suspicion of others.

Sometimes men (I have yet to hear of a woman doing it) who create these mini-cults have two or three other victims that they treat like a close knit family unit, often held in isolation in one house, with everyone doing what they're told. That dynamic can bring the newcomer into the fold more quickly, as can things such as being drugged.

I'm also in the camp that Marion didn't return. What I have a problem with is that IMO RB would have to have been with MB from her return on 2nd August to about 15th October 24 hours per day. At any stage she could have become suspicious of him and reported him otherwise.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I'm also in the camp that Marion didn't return. What I have a problem with is that IMO RB would have to have been with MB from her return on 2nd August to about 15th October 24 hours per day. At any stage she could have become suspicious of him and reported him otherwise.

Maybe he wasn’t 24 hours a day…hence the optometrist?

 

[Nnbee]

I wonder what evidence LE have that can be used to charge him with an actual crime.
What would it take for him to actually be charged? Do we have this "confidence trick" charge here? If they cant prove she didn't withdraw the money from the bank, what will they try and charge him with?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I don’t think it’s as elaborate as hypnotic trance the cult of two.
I think he’s a pure narcissist. Love bombed a vulnerable woman, to the point that she believed him, trusted him and most likely loved him. Narcissists are a breed of their own. Predictable yet unpredictable all at the same time. When the love bombing stops the victim is empty worthless alone.. and the only thing that eases that is the narcissist.. it draws the victim back… and a bit of love bombing again confirms to the victim - oh they do love me, I feel better now.. and the cycle continues..

The cycle of love/abuse/love begins to increase.. the victim begins to doubt themselves not the narcissist.

And that is when the narcissist has complete control.. the victim is now no longer functioning without the narcissist.

They will do whatever is asked… to keep the peace, to try and get back the initial love bomb feeling, and…..through fear .. of what the narcissist will do if they don’t comply.

To anyone who has been involved with a narcissist on any level and managed to escape the toxic relationship most are amazed at the control the person once had over them, and many can’t even explain how it got to that stage.

amen. I'm still trying to escape my narcissistic mother, and she's 92. Granted it isn't a romantic relationship, but I've wasted so much of my life being in her subtle, manipulative control. This is an excellent post, @Eyespywithmylittleeye.

 

[1965school]

amen. I'm still trying to escape my narcissistic mother, and she's 92. Granted it isn't a romantic relationship, but I've wasted so much of my life being in her subtle, manipulative control. This is an excellent post, @Eyespywithmylittleeye.

I totally agree with narcissism. I have dealt with a brother and son in law with it. So I know what they are capable of. Fortunately my daughter was able to escape his clutches with our help and go to police. SIL is currently before the courts for DV.

 

[Liselle]

Of course he listened to the podcast...e v e r y word of it and probably more than once. Of course he read media reports. He would have studied the brief of evidence, page after page, and prepared his story accordingly. I am not fooled for one minute by his dithery old man act. He may be aging and he may well have health problems BUT he is a narcissistic, lying con-man to the bone. IMO.

@BonnieB Totally, 100% agree with your summary! I keep referencing the NAA open file of FdeH which has information only up to 1989. From the late 1970's there was good reason for deportation under the Immigration Act, but we don't know why this didn't occur. The NAA file released 173 pages which covered only 1969-89. IMO, there is a bigger picture yet to be revealed; an even bigger file covering 1990-2022; a reason for not revoking his citizenship; and observing RB's movements in and out of Australia. There are more aliases that haven’t been researched thoroughly and I hope more about these names will be revealed in the next part of the C.C. Hearing.