Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[gymtonic]

Re the car , obviously LE found proof of the purchase and or ownership of the car and that MB had cancelled the road service and it seems these 2 things maybe connected , so was the car registered in what name ? I assume in one of his alias ?

I believe in QLD road service is based on the name of a person to be accessed in any vehicle driven by that person ,as in MB case and car rego in QLD however in NSW access applies to the actual rego number of a particular vehicle .

So for example if Marion brought a vehicle in NSW her QLD road service would be void if she wanted road service in NSW . So she would have to purchase road service in NSW connected to the new vehicle rego number .

edit add ...I cannot see any any other reason to bother cancelling the QLD road service when she returned , you would assume it would just lapse .

IMO either way , her money paid for that vehicle

Just putting this out there to chew on ...

One of the things I am not clear on was whether the RACQ that was cancelled was RACQ “membership” or RACQ “insurance”. RACQ membership would be in a person’s name and would give them reciprocal coverage in NSW as part of the allied Australian Automobile Association and cancelling that would impact on the accumulated membership year levels (silver, gold etc). When I lived overseas I kept my membership to keep up the benefit levels. RACQ insurance on the other hand would be for a nominated vehicle and you would cancel or transfer that if selling old and buying new car.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

amen. I'm still trying to escape my narcissistic mother, and she's 92. Granted it isn't a romantic relationship, but I've wasted so much of my life being in her subtle, manipulative control. This is an excellent post, @Eyespywithmylittleeye.

Omg that’s where my experience comes from narcissist mother…. I feel your pain.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

amen. I'm still trying to escape my narcissistic mother, and she's 92. Granted it isn't a romantic relationship, but I've wasted so much of my life being in her subtle, manipulative control. This is an excellent post, @Eyespywithmylittleeye.

Omg that’s where my experience comes from narcissist mother…. I feel your pain.

I totally agree with narcissism. I have dealt with a brother and son in law with it. So I know what they are capable of. Fortunately my daughter was able to escape his clutches with our help and go to police. SIL is currently before the courts for DV.

so many think it’s reserved for romantic relationships and sometimes forget those ‘narcissists’ have families, children, parents.. etc. happy to hear your daughter has removed herself.

 

[BonnieB]

One of the things I am not clear on was whether the RACQ that was cancelled was RACQ “membership” or RACQ “insurance”. RACQ membership would be in a person’s name and would give them reciprocal coverage in NSW as part of the allied Australian Automobile Association and cancelling that would impact on the accumulated membership year levels (silver, gold etc). When I lived overseas I kept my membership to keep up the benefit levels. RACQ insurance on the other hand would be for a nominated vehicle and you would cancel or transfer that if selling old and buying new car.

I believe it was RACQ insurance, which was no longer needed after her car was sold.

 

[BonnieB]

I'm also in the camp that Marion didn't return. What I have a problem with is that IMO RB would have to have been with MB from her return on 2nd August to about 15th October 24 hours per day. At any stage she could have become suspicious of him and reported him otherwise.

Not necessarily so Estelle. A good con-man can leave his victim for periods of time. You just have to look at men who maintain two separate families for years. In Marion's case, who would she be reporting anyway? FNR? I'm 100% positive she had absolutely no idea and no proof of his real identity. The only link to him was that ad in the paper and I very much doubt the police would have found it.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I’m going off car topic for a minute because this has been bugging me for a while.

and this has probably been brought up before so apologies if it has.

We are not exactly sure who Willy Wonka is. MC has been referred to as Mother, also referred to as Aunt… brothers … referred to as brothers/step-brothers/cousins ‘like brothers’ Adopted by MC v Not adopted. DD father? Name changed to W after marriage of MC.

Cannot find Wonka birth, baptism records. We aren’t even sure of birthdate.

I decided to look at possibly MC being aunt as originally suggested by Mrs Wonka. So I went through the family again.

Looking at siblings of MC I came across RC brother.

the first thing that caught my eye is he is the only sibling born in England.

He married an Italian woman MP. They had a child WC.

I am NOT saying this is Wonka. But there’s some interesting points:

English connection
RC went to jail (this can be searched via Belgian newspaper site) - I can’t share due to copyright.
can’t find what happened to him after that.

I am struggling to find any info on the child WC, birth announcements, baptisms etc and the same with the marriage.

I am wondering if anyone else, has any thoughts on this.

links to various trees are:

Family tree of Robert Coppenolle

Family tree of Robert dit "Bobby" COPPENOLLE


https://gw.geneanet.org/beelefamille?lang=en&n=coppenolle&oc=0&p=robert

The info in links above vary slightly but the one thing they have in common are no birthdates for WC, no death date for RC

having searched here
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

(you will need to search yourself) using RC and mother’s Maiden name F

RC birth is confirmed in England the district of Gt. Ouseburn is an alternative name for Great Ouseburn and it spans the boundaries of the counties of West Riding of Yorkshire and North Riding of Yorkshire;

I then searched other C surnames in the registry and there are a couple 1 in the hull area

I’m curious if others have gone down this path and have question whether WC son of RC is maybe Wonka?

And if Mrs Wonka was correct with the info during inquest MC was an aunt?

And is this the England link?

 

[BonnieB]

I’m going off car topic for a minute because this has been bugging me for a while.

and this has probably been brought up before so apologies if it has.

We are not exactly sure who Willy Wonka is. MC has been referred to as Mother, also referred to as Aunt… brothers … referred to as brothers/step-brothers/cousins ‘like brothers’ Adopted by MC v Not adopted. DD father? Name changed to W after marriage of MC.

Cannot find Wonka birth, baptism records. We aren’t even sure of birthdate.

I decided to look at possibly MC being aunt as originally suggested by Mrs Wonka. So I went through the family again.

Looking at siblings of MC I came across RC brother.

the first thing that caught my eye is he is the only sibling born in England.

He married an Italian woman MP. They had a child WC.

I am NOT saying this is Wonka. But there’s some interesting points:

English connection
RC went to jail (this can be searched via Belgian newspaper site) - I can’t share due to copyright.
can’t find what happened to him after that.

I am struggling to find any info on the child WC, birth announcements, baptisms etc and the same with the marriage.

I am wondering if anyone else, has any thoughts on this.

links to various trees are:

Family tree of Robert Coppenolle

Family tree of Robert dit "Bobby" COPPENOLLE


Family tree of Robert COPPENOLLE

The info in links above vary slightly but the one thing they have in common are no birthdates for WC, no death date for RC

having searched here
FreeBMD - Search

(you will need to search yourself) using RC and mother’s Maiden name F

RC birth is confirmed in England the district of Gt. Ouseburn is an alternative name for Great Ouseburn and it spans the boundaries of the counties of West Riding of Yorkshire and North Riding of Yorkshire;

I then searched other C surnames in the registry and there are a couple 1 in the hull area

I’m curious if others have gone down this path and have question whether WC son of RC is maybe Wonka?

And if Mrs Wonka was correct with the info during inquest MC was an aunt?

And is this the England link?

My ancestry site has the same Italian woman (MP) partnered (no marriage details) with an Austrian man and one daughter (no details). It's definitely the same woman and includes a photo taken in 1940. There is no mention of any other spouses.

 

[gymtonic]

Long post from me after an absence, but I have been quiet and delving back into the podcast to clarify somethings and in the process have solidified my thinking on the question recently posed "which camp are you in?"

I am in the MB Did Not Return Camp, and my reasons are:

1. MB postcards and phone calls in close proximity to August 2: The writing of them and on them suggests no intention of returning to Oz on Aug 2. The tone and content indicates normal holiday banter and activity and future plans in Europe. In addition the postmark of 8 August 1997 on one of the postcards suggests that MB is in the UK after 2 August 1997. Yes, it is possible that this was a part of a huge ruse on her part to delay discovery of her intention to disappear BUT…why?...when she could quite easily just have not written any cards or rung - this would have been an entirely non suspicious way of going off grid in those days prior to email, text and ubiquitous phones. IMO MB is still in the UK and oblivious to any shenanigans happening in Oz. She is acting as if she is on a holiday, prior to letting her family in on marriage and a changed name as a fait accomplis at a later stage. (Bearing in mind that, if not for subsequent events, no one would be any the wiser that the deed poll name change and passport name happened prior to travelling). So for me, and on balance, the latter is the more likely explanation - it is not MB who returns on August 2. In addition, the Threadbo disaster fixes the date of MB’s message on the answer machine and thus also the subsequent call to SL. IMO, the timeline then makes it highly unlikely (if not impossible) to have been MB arriving back on August 2. The handwriting on the arrival card is a tricky anomaly to explain, but we are dealing with a practiced forger and information on the card in a recently changed name which might make any differences inconclusive?

2. Later pattern of RB with JO: If you substitute MB for JO this narrative is possible - RB travels to Europe to meet MB, with prior promise of marriage and promises of contacts and networks to help to set up MB achieve her dreams of “teaching the way she wants to” (RB: “I know Europe well and can help you”). He doesn’t travel with her because he is using 2 aliases at the time. He says he has business to do and after an initial meet somewhere (Heathrow - luggage placed in hold), suggests that in she head for Tunbridge Wells and scoot around Sussex to places he can recommend, all the time being close enough to meet on weekends maybe to keep things ticking over? Then... the pretence of some crisis that means he has to return to Oz (with MB documents?) whilst he suggests MB continues to enjoy herself and go on the Orient Express etc and he will be back soon to get married/ settle down. RB stays in contact with MB whilst he is in Oz and doing his con so that she is not suspicious too soon. If she notices her passport as FNMR missing, he could either say it was an oversight, he forgot he had it and not to worry he will be back before she needs it or, gaslighting, that she must have lost it?. Also there was a statement that MB applied for a new passport on 6 July 1996 as well as the new passport in the name of FNMR in May 1997. Did she have 2 passports and could use the other if needed?

3. RB Previous pattern of strange inter-country movements using different aliases and short term “wives”: The earlier complexity of WW and IK still intrigues me as to whether this was part of a passport/ residency/ citizenship for sale scam or even money laundering/ drug trafficking scam. If it was then providing the FNMR passport to someone else who wants to enter Oz illegally would be possible with his criminal contacts and would serve 2 purposes – gets the passport back into Oz to be used by RB fraudulently (not a stretch given RB’s previous) and gets someone else in for a service fee. RB can then tell MB that he was attacked and her passport was stolen (a la JO MO).

4. MO of withdrawal of money from bank accounts: If it was MB in Oz doing it and she just wanted to disappear, why potentially draw attention to this suspicious way of doing it? It was her money and her account, so she could change the daily limit or with ID just transfer the whole lot to another account. I asked myself - If SL had discovered that the account had been closed and all money transferred eslsewhere, would she have been as suspicious and would the bank teller have thought it was also weird?…probably not as much. Whereas, withdrawing the money in this way would not raise a reg flag initially if it was under the limit and if it did get questioned at the time could be explained away by an expert con artist. It is a risk but the only way if it was someone else doing it without permission. The situation with the lump sum $80,000 and closure of account at Ashmore could have been an entirely different process. Whilst daily cash withdrawals could have been done without MB knowledge, what if this was a “transfer” and was done with MB knowledge i.e. to a newly established joint account overseas? RB being so proficient at lies, he could have spun anything e.g. I’ve found us a house in Luxembourg? The Bank manager himself said large transactions might only raise a red flag if there was no good reason for it. What if RB goes into the Branch with “proof” he is FNMR’s husband, other fraudulent docs and a letter from MB/ FNMR? (he’s done this before as Bernard Dupont and Roger Lauzoney!) and then the Bank Manager verifies with MB?? Any discrepancies??? ...Simple, just gaslight!! Ultimately, I believe at the financial scam part was achieved through a combination of lax bank procedures AND more importantly RB’s knowledge of lax procedures and loop holes – part of the arsenal of a con artist! If it doesn’t work then no foul, (and have a good back up story) and if it does work then keep going!


Overall, I do think the scam was along the same lines as the subsequent GGB and JO scam and maybe, big maybe…RB did think he had got away with it and wondered why MB did not come after him. Maybe he actually didn’t know she had disappeared?? Brings me back to what happened to MB and my ending is necessarily weak because I’m not yet convinced he killed her. In terms of escalation of criminal history it doesn’t fit. He repeats the MO at least twice more after that and if something went wrong and he accidentally killed her or deliberately killed her then, either way, why repeat the same problematic MO and/or effectively de-escalate? I’m not sure on this point because it still begs the question what happened and the only scenario I’ve come up with is that something unrelated and accidentally happened to MB and RB just benefitted “fortuitously”. It would be a plot twist, but there have been plenty of those so far!

All of this is very much IMO and MOO!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

My ancestry site has the same Italian woman (MP) partnered (no marriage details) with an Austrian man and one daughter (no details). It's definitely the same woman and includes a photo taken in 1940. There is no mention of any other spouses.

Austrian man…. Hmm so not RC? One of trees I shared had a daughter.. and WC but under C surname

 

[BonnieB]

Austrian man…. Hmm so not RC? One of trees I shared had a daughter.. and WC but under C surname

Perhaps the Italian lady wasn't married to either of the fathers. Perhaps WC was left with Robert when she moved on to her new Austrian man. Anything is possible IMO.

 

[Estelle]

Not necessarily so Estelle. A good con-man can leave his victim for periods of time. You just have to look at men who maintain two separate families for years. In Marion's case, who would she be reporting anyway? FNR? I'm 100% positive she had absolutely no idea and no proof of his real identity. The only link to him was that ad in the paper and I very much doubt the police would have found it.

I often try to put myself in Marion's shoes. The primary goal of the day for most of her time here from 2nd August to September (and later then a gap to about 15th October) was to go to the bank and make a withdrawal of $5,000 cash at Byron Bay. In this case, she was probably staying somewhere isolated and by herself with no one to talk to except RB. She would have breakfast, then wait for RB to pick her up in his car to take her to Byron Bay, make the withdrawal, give the cash to him to store in his safe, go to the supermarket to buy food, then perhaps have lunch with him where she was staying which she would have to prepare because he would not want to be seen with her at a restaurant. Perhaps he would then tell her he had to go somewhere on "business" and he would see her tomorrow (as he had to be home to dine with his family). She would then have to cook her own dinner, dine alone, read books and watch TV for the rest of the night. I wonder if he ever even stayed the night with her as I have never seen him as a sexual man even though he tries to give us the impression that he was with how bewitched she was with JO and that Marion "jumped on his neck" when they first met! As banks are closed on Saturdays and Sundays, what did she do then? Most of you seem to think that this went on for 76 days with little contact from other people! If I had intended to return to Australia for eight days to get the money together for our fresh life overseas and I had wanted to go on the Orient Express, and it was taking much longer, I would have been so frustrated, lonely, bored, pining for contact with my family and I would have become suspicious of him even if I was in love with him. It was not as if I would have been in my normal routine at home and being a tourist in the Ballina/Byron Bay area without a car, all you can do there is go to the beach in the day. However, if RB had been with me each day and night, it would have kept me interested and focused.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Perhaps the Italian lady wasn't married to either of the fathers. Perhaps WC was left with Robert when she moved on to her new Austrian man. Anything is possible IMO.

That’s what I’m thinking hence aunt MC

 

[KiwiNZ]

Why do you think RB admitting knowing MB? Yes the police had evidence he placed the Lennox Head ad & that he traveled overseas within a few days of MB. But none of that proves he knew her. He could have just said that he placed the ad, but never met Marion and his travel dates are just a coincidence. He’s completely fine saying he knows nothing about Renov Pubs (despite it being in several of his names) & various other ridiculous lies. The absurdity of the lie doesn’t seem to bother him. So why not lie about Marion? And why add extraneous details like holding her belongings and visiting her school? Makes me think there is more solid evidence of their connection. Evidence that he needed to provide an excuse for (e.g., yes someone saw me with that art, but I was just storing it for a couple days….something like that).

I think the rest of the inquest could be quite jaw dropping—although I still don’t know if it will lead to finding Marion.

I do think Pandora’s box is opened and Blum is toast

He denied knowing her when police first paid a visit ( he said because his wife was home) why the change of heart within 24hrs ?

Did he think this could get back to MC and the real FR and was trying to shut it down before his reputation was ruined with her - already was but he didn't seem to think this way lol - he seems to care an awful lot about her

I think between his first police interview and the 2nd in Oct he listen to the podcast and changed his story completely to match the podcast and now wants to ignore the original statement

 

[Roseberry]

I’m going off car topic for a minute because this has been bugging me for a while.

and this has probably been brought up before so apologies if it has.

We are not exactly sure who Willy Wonka is. MC has been referred to as Mother, also referred to as Aunt… brothers … referred to as brothers/step-brothers/cousins ‘like brothers’ Adopted by MC v Not adopted. DD father? Name changed to W after marriage of MC.

Cannot find Wonka birth, baptism records. We aren’t even sure of birthdate.

I decided to look at possibly MC being aunt as originally suggested by Mrs Wonka. So I went through the family again.

Looking at siblings of MC I came across RC brother.

the first thing that caught my eye is he is the only sibling born in England.

He married an Italian woman MP. They had a child WC.

I am NOT saying this is Wonka. But there’s some interesting points:

English connection
RC went to jail (this can be searched via Belgian newspaper site) - I can’t share due to copyright.
can’t find what happened to him after that.

I am struggling to find any info on the child WC, birth announcements, baptisms etc and the same with the marriage.

I am wondering if anyone else, has any thoughts on this.

links to various trees are:

Family tree of Robert Coppenolle

Family tree of Robert dit "Bobby" COPPENOLLE


Family tree of Robert COPPENOLLE

The info in links above vary slightly but the one thing they have in common are no birthdates for WC, no death date for RC

having searched here
FreeBMD - Search

(you will need to search yourself) using RC and mother’s Maiden name F

RC birth is confirmed in England the district of Gt. Ouseburn is an alternative name for Great Ouseburn and it spans the boundaries of the counties of West Riding of Yorkshire and North Riding of Yorkshire;

I then searched other C surnames in the registry and there are a couple 1 in the hull area

I’m curious if others have gone down this path and have question whether WC son of RC is maybe Wonka?

And if Mrs Wonka was correct with the info during inquest MC was an aunt?

And is this the England link?

Agree. Have been down this Mama C as Aunt route, due to both seeming to say she is Aunt. Have looked at all the info I can find on MC siblings and three stick out. ECC, RC (as above) and VC.

VC had a son JP, with ? father, some records say 1949, so if that's a bit late.

ECC seemed to be married early on, so unless WC an outside child during that marriage that was somehow absorbed within family, maybe no.

From the links above: RC, born 1916 in UK - siblings immediately before and after born at home- so think family possibly in the 250 k Belgian refugees sent to that part of UK during WWI, hence his birth there.
RC jail post 1944? Can only find both his mother JF and himself (RC) records to BW as political prisoners 1944. If so, likely RB would have found himself possibly hidden in orphanage.
Italian wife of RC from Italy d. Froyennes 2012. Had daughter MC.
Marriage date of RC & MP? Suggest it might post-date birth of WC.
Just my thoughts.

 

[gymtonic]

I've also had some thoughts on the event: MB’s Medicare Card used at Optometrist in Grafton on 13 August 1997 which relates to personal knowledge as a member of the Queensland Teachers Union Health (Private Health Insurance Fund and now called Teachers Health and in between Teachers Union Health)

SL was asked at inquest re MB's medical history and usual practices and SL says that as a member of QTHU she would access regular dental and optometry checks at the QTUH own Health Centre on St Paul’s Terrace in Brisbane (which I also attended regularly so I know how it worked). The benefit of attending this centre was that as a member there would be no gap payable and they had their own supply of subsidised glasses frames. However if you were elsewhere in the state, you could attend a practice on the QTHU list which would also give you no gap treatment option. If you attended a practice not on the list you would need to pay and then claim back benefits from QTUH and in 1997 I believe this still meant presenting in person at the counter at the centre with receipts (so not convenient nine to do it this way). Additional information is that simple eye checks with no additional services (like glasses or retina scans etc) were covered by Medicare. Also if you went overseas for a period of time (e.g. to work like I did in 1996 for 2 years), you could put your membership on temporary hold and not have to pay premiums. So...insights/ queries from this:

Can we assume that the visit to DE Optometrist at Grafton was billed as Medicare only and was therefore a simple eye check only? If new glasses or anything else requested/ required then this would have to have been paid upfront and claimed back from the health fund. Has this been checked to see if it happened?

OR I guess...if the QTHU premiums had been put on hold then no claim could have been made for additional services anyway.

It would seem to me that chosing to visit an optometrist like DE who was based in Coffs Harbour but worked into Grafton and another country town ensured that he would be less likely to remember particular cases, and an MO more likely to be a stolen card sold to someone who is not eligible for Medicare?

OR...a planted breadcrumb to suggest MB is back in Oz?

 

[gymtonic]

Another interesting titbit for those remembering WW's earlier history (not necessarily material but speaks to those Walter Mitty-esque moments or source of info for same).

GGB mentioned that she thought RB was Belgian rather than Luxembourgish, as he had stated, because he admired Jacques Brel and, as a Francophile who knew of Brel's and his music, this got me intrigued. I found out that the Palais des Beaux Arts (where RB as WW claimed to have studied) is where Jacques Brel gave his final performance on 15 November 1966!

Also (according to Wikipedia) Brel devoted the final years of his life to his passion for sailing. On 28 February 1974, he purchased the Askoy II, a 19-meter (62 ft), 42-tonne steel-hulled yawl built in Belgium in 1960. He began planning a three-year voyage to circumnavigate the world. In July, he set off on his world trip with Maddly Bamy (mistress) and his daughter, France, aboard his new yacht.

Hmm where have I heard this story of owning a yacht and sailing off around the world??!!

 

[BonnieB]

I often try to put myself in Marion's shoes. The primary goal of the day for most of her time here from 2nd August to September (and later then a gap to about 15th October) was to go to the bank and make a withdrawal of $5,000 cash at Byron Bay. In this case, she was probably staying somewhere isolated and by herself with no one to talk to except RB. She would have breakfast, then wait for RB to pick her up in his car to take her to Byron Bay, make the withdrawal, give the cash to him to store in his safe, go to the supermarket to buy food, then perhaps have lunch with him where she was staying which she would have to prepare because he would not want to be seen with her at a restaurant. Perhaps he would then tell her he had to go somewhere on "business" and he would see her tomorrow (as he had to be home to dine with his family). She would then have to cook her own dinner, dine alone, read books and watch TV for the rest of the night. I wonder if he ever even stayed the night with her as I have never seen him as a sexual man even though he tries to give us the impression that he was with how bewitched she was with JO and that Marion "jumped on his neck" when they first met! As banks are closed on Saturdays and Sundays, what did she do then? Most of you seem to think that this went on for 76 days with little contact from other people! If I had intended to return to Australia for eight days to get the money together for our fresh life overseas and I had wanted to go on the Orient Express, and it was taking much longer, I would have been so frustrated, lonely, bored, pining for contact with my family and I would have become suspicious of him even if I was in love with him. It was not as if I would have been in my normal routine at home and being a tourist in the Ballina/Byron Bay area without a car, all you can do there is go to the beach in the day. However, if RB had been with me each day and night, it would have kept me interested and focused.

Well, to my way of thinking...
1. Why do we assume he returned to DdH straight away? If he knew the money fleecing was going to take time surely he would have told his wife he was going to extend his stay in Europe for another few weeks. DdH had no way of knowing he was back in Australia.
2. To reassure Marion, I suspect he insisted that she hold the cash, possibly providing a security box (from Bunnings just like the plastic pipe for JO) I suspect this because there was no need for him to open the security box at the Ballina bank until HE took possession of the cash on 14th or 15th October.
3. Why assume it was RB driving the car? I don't believe RB went anywhere near the bank in Byron - too risky, he had his wife's relo's living there. I think there is evidence they were driving around... Burleigh Heads (withdrawals), Grafton (Medicare card) and probably many other places.
4. When he did finally return home to Wollongbah, I'm sure he took off again to a "coin auction" or some such business somewhere. I really don't think DdH had any say in where he went or for how long.
5. I'm sure there must have been times Marion had doubts and suspicions but I think after losing her job, selling her house and changing her name, she had so much invested in this relationship that she wanted desperately to believe in the "happy ever after" fairy tale he sold her.

 

[Satchie]

I can't see why Marion would withdraw $5,000 a day for weeks. That is a very obsessive crazy thing to do, because she is the account holder and would have had full access to her funds.
There was no reason for her to do that.
If the money was in a savings account, she had access to all funds in 1 transaction.
If the money was in a term deposit account, the first withdrawal, would have voided the terms and conditions immediately. Yes she would have been charges associated with closing the account, but not that much. She would have immediately had access to the full amount. There is no valid reason for her to physically go to the bank every day and withdraw $5,000.
I believe someone else has withdrawn the money daily in $5,000 increments, to avoid a situation where the bank would question and require a thorough check, as to why a large sum of money was needed in cash only.

I believe that is the maximum that could be withdrawn in cash, per day, from that particular account.

I assume the idea was to transfer the money elsewhere (possibly overseas?) leaving no paper trail behind, ie no cheques, no electronic transfers to a different bank.

I can't say why she used this method, but the inquest testimony stated that she later went to her home branch and withdrew $80k in one withdrawl.

I was wondering about the timing of this October withdrawl. Was it precipitated by SL's phone call to the bank, and the discovery that, although reportedly overseas, Marion's account was being 'drained' in Byron Bay?

After the bank employee told SL about the withdrawls, I can't imagine it stopped there. I fully expect the bank would have frozen Marion's account. (side note, that happened to me around 2005 when my bank card was compromised and a suspicious withdrawl was flagged by the bank).

In that case, Marion would have had to show up in person at her home branch, and go through verification procedures to get access to her account, and also to make that huge final withdrawl. Further according to testimony, she explained her 'suspicious' actions to the staff person as deliberately seeking to disappear from her family.

I personally think a fraudster can much more easily defraud a single woman than defraud a bank.

JMO

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Agree. Have been down this Mama C as Aunt route, due to both seeming to say she is Aunt. Have looked at all the info I can find on MC siblings and three stick out. ECC, RC (as above) and VC.

VC had a son JP, with ? father, some records say 1949, so if that's a bit late.

ECC seemed to be married early on, so unless WC an outside child during that marriage that was somehow absorbed within family, maybe no.

From the links above: RC, born 1916 in UK - siblings immediately before and after born at home- so think family possibly in the 250 k Belgian refugees sent to that part of UK during WWI, hence his birth there.
RC jail post 1944? Can only find both his mother JF and himself (RC) records to BW as political prisoners 1944. If so, likely RB would have found himself possibly hidden in orphanage.
Italian wife of RC from Italy d. Froyennes 2012. Had daughter MC.
Marriage date of RC & MP? Suggest it might post-date birth of WC.
Just my thoughts.

Yes I’m thinking post birthdate too for marriage, have yet to find it though. And no birthdate for daughter MC
Have a look at
Le Soir - 20/4/1949 page 5
La Nation Belge - 21/4/1949 page 4
My French is non existent but this is different to your 1944

 

[Satchie]

Well, to my way of thinking...
1. Why do we assume he returned to DdH straight away? If he knew the money fleecing was going to take time surely he would have told his wife he was going to extend his stay in Europe for another few weeks. DdH had no way of knowing he was back in Australia.
2. To reassure Marion, I suspect he insisted that she hold the cash, possibly providing a security box (from Bunnings just like the plastic pipe for JO) I suspect this because there was no need for him to open the security box at the Ballina bank until HE took possession of the cash on 14th or 15th October.
3. Why assume it was RB driving the car? I don't believe RB went anywhere near the bank in Byron - too risky, he had his wife's relo's living there. I think there is evidence they were driving around... Burleigh Heads (withdrawals), Grafton (Medicare card) and probably many other places.
4. When he did finally return home to Wollongbah, I'm sure he took off again to a "coin auction" or some such business somewhere. I really don't think DdH had any say in where he went or for how long.
5. I'm sure there must have been times Marion had doubts and suspicions but I think after losing her job, selling her house and changing her name, she had so much invested in this relationship that she wanted desperately to believe in the "happy ever after" fairy tale he sold her.

All quite possible.

From the romance scams I read about, the scammer hooks the victim by promises of future happiness, while carefully maintaining his distance.

If he were 100% available day and night, the spell would more likely be broken. The trick they use is to place alleged obstacles in the way of being together, and then use the victim's own triggered neediness, impatience and frustration to get them to do crazy things, just to remove that imaginary barrier that seems to stand between them and perfect happiness.

So, I don't think we can really assume she was with her scammer when she went back to Australia. What would be his excuse to explain to his new wife that he was going to travel 3 days ahead, and not wait a few days to travel with her?

I'm more inclined to believe he was pretending to still be in Europe, in some kind of trouble or challenge that needed money to resolve.

That might be why he testified that he'd not seen Marion after he returned to Australia...

JMO