Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[gymtonic]

I'm with scenario 1

Also, personally I don't necessarily think that the RACQ m'ship and Medicare use was someone trying to 'plant' proof of life.

I think someone knew that Marion was absolutely on the other side of the world and / or was no longer alive and was simply maximising and checking out the use of every facet of her identity for which they had documents.

By their way of thinking, the Medicare use could maybe come in handy. The RACQ m'ship was perhaps taking a monthly debit from the account so they wanted that stopped and maybe could find no use for it - or maybe during conversation with the bank, a helpful bank staff may have said 'if you're starting a new life overseas, would you like us to cancel all your outgoing monthly / annual payments?'.

I imagine if they did it with these two items, they did it with a whole lot more we don't know about.

Just FYI In 1997, RACQ membership was $45 annually paid upfront with no refund if cancelled (personal experience and Wayback machine for amount verified), but the second part you said is very possible. If cancelled prior to going overseas to prevent an automatic direct debit going out, the date of cancellation might just represent the end date / renewal date with no personal action on that date required.

 

[Procrastinator]

I could be wrong but I thought it was Japan RB was tackled over, why he had not used JAL via Tokyo again after 97

I think you are right. blows my theory

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think you are right. blows my theory

Don’t worry, so far none of us have come up with a theory that couldnt be blown up lol, your in good company, but we keep on trying, for Marion.

 

[mishy66]

Maybe Marion was already in Hong Kong the last phone call to SL and said "I'm not going to keep writing postcards to everyone" because she couldn't . The fact that AKA hasn't given one believable reason/lie/story/excuse as to why he hasn't returned to Hong Kong is a big red flag. Something happened in Hong Kong.

It was JAL / Japan he hasn't been back to since 1997.

 

[gymtonic]

Don’t worry, so far none of us have come up with a theory that couldnt be blown up lol, your in good company, but we keep on trying, for Marion.

You win the internet today @KiwiNZ

 

[mishy66]

Ha ha, I just found similar images. I think I can see a resemblance JMO. If it’s him it sheds some light on his orphanage.
Woesten: derde en vierde leerjaar in schooljaar 1950-1951
Woesten: vijfde en zesde leerjaar in schooljaar 1951-1952
Woesten: derde en vierde leerjaar in schooljaar 1947-1948.
Woesten: vijfde en zesde leerjaar in het schooljaar 1952-1953
Woesten: kaarterskampioen Maurice De Puydt.

Great find again @Jamaha
That last one is the spitting image of his son.

 

[LKSNZ]

Sorry RB returns to Aussie before MB.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

This sounds like a more believable theory IMO. I don't believe that she would have hired a car and driven on her own. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the public transport system is so excellent in the UK, you wouldn't need to. I think that RB was with her and he probably hired the car in his name. I think he wanted to take her to some places that he had visited before, maybe a bit off the beaten track, that was easier travelling in a car.

Agree. As with JO 2 years later. He hires the car and drives round East Sussex & Kent with his victim.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

The deeper we dig, the further we get nowhere, hahaha.

Not to tout the Prosecutors podcast, but that is what I found so refreshing about it. Hearing the narrative in a straight line cleared my head. RB is no longer a "mastermind." He's a small-time con artist who preys on women. Marion was low-spirited enough to fall prey.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Buses and rail are not so great in the smaller rural areas and if she was together with RB at this phase of car hire, it would explain maybe?

In my travels to UK in 20th century, I first drove alone! From US this is very scary. I never did again. I used bus and train exclusively and toured the countryside, even remote places. I never had a problem. However if Marion said she drove, I have no reason to doubt her.

 

[Meligator]

I’ve been listening to another podcast “queen of the con: the Irish heiress.” So many similarities with RB’s strategies and tactics he used to con others. Also amazing to learn how heartless and cruel someone can be. I imagine RB to be very similar.

OK, so now my original post has been corroborated by more than one sleuth and it looks like (as I thought) there was more than 1 piece of correspondence from MB postmarked prior to August 2, this is why I've been confused as to why people are dismissing more than 1 piece of evidence of MB being in the UK after "the FNMR passport" arrived in Oz. One thing I can understand, but 2 postmarked postcards from different places with different postmarks and date, and a phone call experienced by a close family member on a "locked in" (i.e. referenced to a known event being the Thredbo disaster) date? with the substance of the call that she was phoning from TW at a payphone and with no airport background noise? and an UK sleuth demonstrating the Cathay Pacific flight via Hong Kong would have had to have left UK before the phone call and the postcards?

Weigh that against a passport in a largely unknown (to anyone but AKA and MB) name entering Oz, and a dodgy medicare card use, and bank withdrawals - all in the context of a known forger and impersonator.

I have heard the argument that the postcards could also be planting proof of life in the UK BUT...why would the same person do both? If someone is wanting to make it look like MB arrived back by planting proof of life evidence in Oz would the case not be stronger if there was no conflicting "proof of life" in an other country, at the same time, on the other side of the world? And vice versa...but not both. It's only made it more intriguing and likely to be investigated hasn't it?...completely the opposite of what AKA would have wanted?

That's been my reasoning all along and now taking note of @Peralta 's comment about being more explicit about laying it outing in more detail. I thought I had posted something like this way back when someone posted "which camp are you in? MB returned or not?".

Do those post Aug 2 postcards/letters still exist, or are those dates based on someone’s memory of the postcard? If they exist have they been made publicly available? Just that sometimes the date stamps are not perfectly clear/readable and if by memory it’s possible someone misread the date.

 

[BonnieB]

Not to tout the Prosecutors podcast, but that is what I found so refreshing about it. Hearing the narrative in a straight line cleared my head. RB is no longer a "mastermind." He's a small-time con artist who preys on women. Marion was low-spirited enough to fall prey.

Agree with you there MrsEmma. In MB's case, I think he probably played his FNR role with a convincing passion. IMO he hoped to kill two birds with one stone; relieve MB of all her assets and direct any police investigation to the real FNR to cause him as much trouble as possible. He may even have planned to scam the real FNR using MB's new ID documents.
IMO, as technology improved CCTV, border security, sniffer dogs (cash), computer banking etc. his overseas dodgy frauds became harder to accomplish so he reverted to his "tried and true" romance scams. As you say, he's a con artist who preys on women; and he's still trying to con the Coroner.

 

[Sillybilly]

I merged all the pages into a pdf file. Am I allowed to upload it or is it against the rules?

<rsbm>

As they are personal ads by numerous innocent individuals, none of whom are known 100% to relate to this case, they should not be shared publicly. We just can't post information related to innocent people all over a true crime forum on the internet for the whole world to see.

You may share and sleuth or discuss them with others in private messaging, but whatever is discussed in private messaging can not be brought to the public thread.

If there are questions, please message a Moderator to enquire.

Hope that helps.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Marion’s sister Deidre stated that when she returned from holiday in June 1997 Marion had sent her a little broach in a Celtic design with the letter D. This was for her birthday on Aug 7th and was sent from Tunbridge Wells.

A couple of things, does this not indicate Marion had no intention of returning before Aug 7th and did the broach come from a particular shop in Tunbridge Wells as I assume it was in a box and not just loose?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I’ve been listening to another podcast “queen of the con: the Irish heiress.” So many similarities with RB’s strategies and tactics he used to con others. Also amazing to learn how heartless and cruel someone can be. I imagine RB to be very similar.



Do those post Aug 2 postcards/letters still exist, or are those dates based on someone’s memory of the postcard? If they exist have they been made publicly available? Just that sometimes the date stamps are not perfectly clear/readable and if by memory it’s possible someone misread the date.

@Meligator I'd love the heiress podcast info if it can be shared here. I'm currently listening to LIAR, LIAR: Melissa Caddick and the missing Millions. Also similarities, but she is a Mastermind. Interesting because it's an Australian case.

I'm also curious about the postmarks. Can they be legibly read as to date and locale?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

The postcard of Strand Gate at Winchelsea postmarked in Tonbridge on the 7 Aug 1997 is interesting because you would have expected that to be postmarked Hastings in East Sussex as Strand Gate is between Rye & Hastings, but strangely its posted back in the Tunbridge Wells area in West Kent where Marion started out in June. Tonbridge’s (5 miles from Tunbridge Wells) Royal Mail sorting office dealt with the mail for Tunbridge Wells. It suggests ‘they’ returned to Tunbridge Wells by late July so the call received by Sally might have come from there?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

It does seem as though the ‘con’ was the prospect of Marion setting up a school in the UK. Marion’s first letter home was already making reference to the number of private schools where she was staying and she had picked up the brochure to The Mead School in Tunbridge Wells. Incidentally this school is just a 5 minute walk from The Swan Hotel in The Pantiles where I believe Marion met up with him.

 

[Carovb5]

Second post of the day. If Willy Coppenolle is the real name of RB, could this be him as a child? Woesten: derde en vierde leerjaar in schooljaar 1950-1951

A lot of WC's (toilet in dutch,suits him imo) schoolpictures. I've been looking if i see a resemblance, but it's difficult with so little pictures of him.
I, for myself, thought it wasn't him, cause then he would have been to school in dutch... But anything is possible! They could try asking him something in dutch

 

[Carovb5]

Very interesting @KittensAugustus! So AKA would have been 11-12 in 1950-1951 (assuming his DOB and age are not false of course!). Would 3rd and 4th grade in Belgium be the same as Australia and 8 - 10 years old?

Yes, that's the same!

 

[Carovb5]

Although i've dismissed it a long time ago i now have to admit that on this picture it looks like him. Maybe because he's older?
Afbeelding Nukerke: Eendracht Nukerke voetbal bekijken - Brakel