Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[gymtonic]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but a friend and I were just discussing Marion's final payphone call to Sally on 31 July, which she said was form Tunbridge Wells, England. I know there are theories that she may have been calling from somewhere else on her way back to Australia, not from the UK, and I believe Sally only had Marion's word that she was calling from Tunbridge Wells.

How Sally describes the call does support the theory that Marion was not calling from a UK payphone. She says Marion had to redial a few times because the money kept running out. That is a red flag to us UK sleuths because with a UK payphone, whether you were using a pre-paid card or cash, the call would not just cut off when the money or credit ran out, forcing you to redial. You had a warning signal: if more money or a fresh pre-paid card was needed there was a series of "rapid pips" that both parties could hear. You had maybe 10 seconds to fumble for change or a new card, and only after that would it cut off if you didn't take action. I found a recording of the "rapid pips" here and I have passed them on to Joni:

https://www.pond5.com/sound-effects/item/8634028-bt-dial-payphone-pips

The "rapid pips" are very familiar and nostalgic to anyone who remembers the UK before mobile phones eclipsed payphones. They were very intrusive to the conversation. We all used to ring our friends and family at home or overseas from payphones and the pips would drive us nuts.

Separately, Marion's remark to Sally that she was in Tunbridge Wells "having tea and scones with some little old ladies" has always seemed a little bogus to me, like she was making it up. Apart from sounding made up, the call was made in the early morning UK time, and you wouldn't have tea and scones at that time. I know it sounds ridiculous, but they are just not breakfast food. "Little old ladies" and Australian tourists like Marion who wanted to act all British and dainty would have them in the afternoon at a tea shop or hotel lobby, not at dawn.

While I don't want to paint Marion as a deceptive person, it seems to be generally accepted that it was she who returned to Australia barely a day after this call. If it was her, she lied by omission to Sally about this imminent trip home to Australia *that same day*. Perhaps as the landing card says, it really was meant to be a quick one week trip home to sort out something that had arisen during the trip to Europe, and Marion preferred not to disclose it to Sally. After all, we do know that Marion had seen fit to not be open in general about aspects of her new relationship and her planned trip. That, plus the half-truths on the outgoing passenger card, do possibly suggest the influence of someone to whom deception is just their daily life.

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, but a friend and I were just discussing Marion's final payphone call to Sally on 31 July, which she said was form Tunbridge Wells, England. I know there are theories that she may have been calling from somewhere else on her way back to Australia, not from the UK, and I believe Sally only had Marion's word that she was calling from Tunbridge Wells.

How Sally describes the call does support the theory that Marion was not calling from a UK payphone. She says Marion had to redial a few times because the money kept running out. That is a red flag to us UK sleuths because with a UK payphone, whether you were using a pre-paid card or cash, the call would not just cut off when the money or credit ran out, forcing you to redial. You had a warning signal: if more money or a fresh pre-paid card was needed there was a series of "rapid pips" that both parties could hear. You had maybe 10 seconds to fumble for change or a new card, and only after that would it cut off if you didn't take action. I found a recording of the "rapid pips" here and I have passed them on to Joni:

https://www.pond5.com/sound-effects/item/8634028-bt-dial-payphone-pips

The "rapid pips" are very familiar and nostalgic to anyone who remembers the UK before mobile phones eclipsed payphones. They were very intrusive to the conversation. We all used to ring our friends and family at home or overseas from payphones and the pips would drive us nuts.

Separately, Marion's remark to Sally that she was in Tunbridge Wells "having tea and scones with some little old ladies" has always seemed a little bogus to me, like she was making it up. Apart from sounding made up, the call was made in the early morning UK time, and you wouldn't have tea and scones at that time. I know it sounds ridiculous, but they are just not breakfast food. "Little old ladies" and Australian tourists like Marion who wanted to act all British and dainty would have them in the afternoon at a tea shop or hotel lobby, not at dawn.

While I don't want to paint Marion as a deceptive person, it seems to be generally accepted that it was she who returned to Australia barely a day after this call. If it was her, she lied by omission to Sally about this imminent trip home to Australia *that same day*. Perhaps as the landing card says, it really was meant to be a quick one week trip home to sort out something that had arisen during the trip to Europe, and Marion preferred not to disclose it to Sally. After all, we do know that Marion had seen fit to not be open in general about aspects of her new relationship and her planned trip. That, plus the half-truths on the outgoing passenger card, do possibly suggest the influence of someone to whom deception is just their daily life.

Here’s something I posted way back Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14
I believe that SL said in an early podcast that she heard coins dropping, rather than MB having to redial.

 

[sah10406]

Here’s something I posted way back Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14
I believe that SL said in an early podcast that she heard coins dropping, rather than MB having to redial.

Thanks, that's very useful. I may have misheard that the call dropped, not the coins. Either way, there would have been the warning pips if the call was from a UK payphone.

Interestingly, the case timeline at the 7 News website says MB called SL on 31 July, but no mention of 1 August. Given that she departed from Hong Kong 9pm local time on 1 August as you say, it's pretty crucial for the timeline whether it was 31 July or 1 August when they spoke, and hence from where.

The Lady Vanishes: The timeline of Marion Barter's disappearance

Go through the timeline of events that led to the disappearance of Gold Coast mother Marion Barter.

7news.com.au

 

[mishy66]

Pierre Soupart -

Now the White House post in Knokke-Heist makes sense!

Original newspaper links below the translations.


English translation

Pierre Soupart (60) had been at odds for some time with his 82-year-old mother, Marguerite Petit. The last quarrel arose on June 15 last year in the courtyard of the Rallye pension on the Bayauxlaan in Knokke-Heist. Soupaert has been preying on his mother's property for a long time. But she suspected that he would sell it to developers and refused to leave it to him. An argument over a speck of paint peaked on June 15. Soupaert pushed his mother down a step at the back door of the guest house and then wanted to suffocate her with a wet towel. Passers-by came to the cry for help, who were able to free the woman.

In Bruges, the man was initially given a prison sentence of five years, of which 23 months were suspended. Both Soupaert and the public prosecutor's office of Bruges lodged an appeal against the verdict. Soupaert always claimed that he wanted to wipe the blood from his mother's face with that wet towel, but the court of appeal in Ghent did not believe this story and effectively increased the sentence to ten years.

Soupaert was also not ready for his test piece with the attempt. In 2004, the police had to intervene because he harassed his mother, and in 1997 he threatened to set the hotel on fire.

Knokke-Heist

Tien jaar voor man die moeder probeert te doden

Een man uit Knokke-Heist heeft in beroep tien jaar cel gekregen omdat hij zijn moeder probeerde te doden.

www.nieuwsblad.be

Pierre Soupart (59) has wanted to take over the pension of his 82-year-old mother Marguerite Petit in the Bayauxlaan in Knokke-Heist for many years. Because she does not want him to sell the property to developers, the elderly woman has never answered that question. This created ongoing tensions between mother and son and on June 15 last year the situation got completely out of hand. After a banal discussion about a paint spot, Soupart pushed his mother down a flight of steps at the back door of the guest house. He then tried to suffocate his fallen mother with a wet towel. The woman defended herself violently and when passers-by came to her cry for help, Soupart had to stop his assassination attempt. The police came to arrest Soupart and he has been in jail ever since.

wipe blood

"He didn't want to kill his mother," Soupart's lawyer tried during the pleadings. "He confesses to the push, but he certainly didn't want to choke her. He wanted to wipe the blood from his mother's face with that towel, but the witnesses misinterpreted it.' Soupart's lawyer wanted to have the facts reclassified as intentional assault and battery, but the judge refused to do so yesterday. Soupart was sentenced to five years in prison, of which 23 months were suspended. He has to pay his mother one euro in temporary compensation.

Alcohol problem

Pierre Soupart – from Tournai – is the eldest of four brothers and is a man of twelve crafts and thirteen accidents. At 59, he is still financially dependent on his mother. Until the day of the incident, he came to her for dinner every afternoon. He struggles with a heavy alcohol addiction and has built up a lot of debts. In March 2004, the police had to intervene when he was drunk and tried to extort money from his mother. A few years earlier, he threatened to burn down the boarding house if he didn't get more money.

"His mother strongly refrains from this situation," says lawyer Koen Van Zandweghe. “She struggles with a sense of failure as a mother. She won't see her son for the time being.' Soupart may appeal.

Vijf jaar cel voor man die moeder (82) probeerde te doden

Een man uit Knokke-Heist heeft vijf jaar cel gekregen omdat hij zijn moeder probeerde te doden. Hij duwde haar van een trapje en probeerde haar te verstikken.

www.nieuwsblad.be

An article about Pierre Soupart living in Knokke (Belgium) getting a 10 Year sentence for trying to kill his own mother because he was after her house… Nice business accomplice there…

Tien jaar voor man die moeder probeert te doden

Een man uit Knokke-Heist heeft in beroep tien jaar cel gekregen omdat hij zijn moeder probeerde te doden.

m.nieuwsblad.be

So well done finding all this info WS's!!!

@Eyespywithmylittleeye @Carovb5 and other sleuths on here!

Finally the "white house" was posted up on the MB FB page today.

Such great work by people here.

 

[mishy66]

Le Luxembourg, clé du mystère de l'affaire Marion Barter?

De nouvelles preuves cruciales dans l'enquête sur la disparition de l'Australienne en 1997 mènent à un homme intimement lié au Grand-Duché.

www-wort-lu.translate.goog

A person from the village confirmed that there was a furniture store next to an electronics store, run by a person with the name David. Later, there was another store in the nearby town of Schifflange, the villager explained, adding that the person who ran the store was known to use more than one name.

The Luxembourg Trade Register lists a store named “L'Européenne du Meuble (Mobigros)” as the first result when searching for “l'Européenne du Siege”. It says the store was founded in 1980, but the records have been deleted. Other websites, such as opencoroporates.com , show that Mobigros' address matches the one mentioned in the Australian exhibit.

@BonnieB

 

[mishy66]

If you sign in as an anonymous user to the Luxembourg company register there are some interesting documents

I hope others also saw all these documents when you shared that info too!

This was what was eventually posted on the MB FB page.

 

[Inspector Gibbs]

I personally think the Furniture store was a front for smuggling in drugs and stolen art. RB had already served time for importing hashish and stolen art. Importing furniture would have been a great way of stashing hoards of drugs and getting from one country to another.

 

[BonnieB]

I personally think the Furniture store was a front for smuggling in drugs and stolen art. RB had already served time for importing hashish and stolen art. Importing furniture would have been a great way of stashing hoards of drugs and getting from one country to another.

That theory has been thrown around a couple of times. Luxembourg isn't exactly the drug capital of Europe though and he was only caught with 3g hash which is hardly big-time drug smuggling - more personal use I'd say.

My opinion is more along the lines of draining the investors funds, bankruptcy, then pheonixing the business with new investors. It's all about the con.

 

[Meligator]

If they were building loungers, presumably some of these loungers would likely still exists somewhere, in someone’s home.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That theory has been thrown around a couple of times. Luxembourg isn't exactly the drug capital of Europe though and he was only caught with 3g hash which is hardly big-time drug smuggling - more personal use I'd say.

My opinion is more along the lines of draining the investors funds, bankruptcy, then pheonixing the business with new investors. It's all about the con.

Exporting bulky items would be the perfect cover for smuggling out substances or high value items. It could also be pretty 'hands off' and I imagine even if an exported item were intercepted and seized, it would be really hard to determine who had placed the items within it. However, personally, if I were doing such a thing, I'd pick a far higher value and less bulky substance to move around. If it was drugs, things like acid / LSD, MDMA, cocaine, heroin or such can be easier disguised and also put in thin layers like paper or card or a liquid state if needed. JMO MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If they were building loungers, presumably some of these loungers would likely still exists somewhere, in someone’s home.

Good point!

 

[RachelZachary]

Apologies if this is already answered somewhere but have the police and the Salvation Army been investigated for negligence in this case? Have Marion’s family received any compensation? I know things were different 25 years ago but it’s worrying thinking of how many other crimes and incidents may have happened under their watch.

 

[brjakj]

Apologies if this is already answered somewhere but have the police and the Salvation Army been investigated for negligence in this case? Have Marion’s family received any compensation? I know things were different 25 years ago but it’s worrying thinking of how many other crimes and incidents may have happened under their watch.

I believe SL wants to do all that she can to find her mum before pursuing things like this.

 

[RachelZachary]

I believe SL wants to do all that she can to find her mum before pursuing things like this.

Understandably. I would hope the police would put themselves forward for investigation - is there an independent office or ombudsman for police conduct in Australia?

 

[gymtonic]

Thanks, that's very useful. I may have misheard that the call dropped, not the coins. Either way, there would have been the warning pips if the call was from a UK payphone.

Interestingly, the case timeline at the 7 News website says MB called SL on 31 July, but no mention of 1 August. Given that she departed from Hong Kong 9pm local time on 1 August as you say, it's pretty crucial for the timeline whether it was 31 July or 1 August when they spoke, and hence from where.

The Lady Vanishes: The timeline of Marion Barter's disappearance

Go through the timeline of events that led to the disappearance of Gold Coast mother Marion Barter.

7news.com.au

I don’t pay too much attention to second hand sources if they are out of line with first hand testimony. I think others on this forum have pointed out uncorrected errors or inconsistencies on news websites too. In this instance (IMO) the 7 news site has conflated the message left by MB on the answerphone with her in-person call a day later.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Understandably. I would hope the police would put themselves forward for investigation - is there an independent office or ombudsman for police conduct in Australia?

I doubt it follows procedure to nominate themselves for investigation or complaint but certainly this, and likely other crimes represent institutional failings that do need investigation so that ‘lessons can be learned‘ as per usual

 

[gymtonic]

That theory has been thrown around a couple of times. Luxembourg isn't exactly the drug capital of Europe though and he was only caught with 3g hash which is hardly big-time drug smuggling - more personal use I'd say.

My opinion is more along the lines of draining the investors funds, bankruptcy, then pheonixing the business with new investors. It's all about the con.

However, Belgium and The Netherlands, were foremost in the OC and drug « trade ». Amsterdam and Antwerp ports were vital to trafficking routes between SE UK and Europe. RB was moving frequently through these ports and all over the UK and Europe under the guise of marketing and trade displays. There is a saying that comes from the animal world of « Don’t S*@t where you sleep.«!! Luxembourg….financial and tax break capital as the « siege » (seat and pun of words) of a more nefarious business could be an ideal set up IMO. RB’s early criminal record with drugs, is, I agree small fry and much earlier in the narrative. However, it does place him in touch with the drug world, which could have escalated to more involvement. JMOO

 

[mishy66]

Yesterday Joni posted this up on the MB FB page.

In part: "I'd like some feedback on these kind of posts, where information that we have discovered earlier (eg. this post content it was February this year during the inquest ) is put up, but without the complete picture.

Is it annoying or interesting to you ? Do you like the challenge of going searching yourself ? Is the older information of interest to you even if it isn't currently what is being worked on ? ......."


The MB missing persons case has attracted wide spread audiences and the person of interest RB has become a massive drawcard as people discover such complexities to his life and the entanglement of an innocent woman who is still missing, possibly murdered.


RB created a lifelong game of cat and mouse, deceptions and drawn out games to attract people.

Reading this post by Joni reminds me of the same in a way.

Whilst there is NO DOUBT much of the information found so far, and more which has not yet been made public at this time, has been due to the tireless work of a TEAM of people behind Sally, I have to say that the Websleuths here have made a massive impact toward the search for Marion and the life of Blum.
I see this everyday as I look back on pages of information posted here and on recent discoverings by sleuths still working hard behind the scenes here on this forum.

Finding information on a missing person isn't about who found what first, who posts up first on any given forum, but it is about a community working together to unearth any snippet of information that may help.

It isn't a game, like Blum set up, it is a real case, real people, everyday people who give up some time in their lives to try and help bring a missing person home to their loved ones.

Asking the community if they like games or dropping pings to communities to ferret away trying to find clues reminds me of a cludeo game where the main player already has all the cards.

I have to wonder now IF the sleuth that actually found that white house here and then posted it all up on that FB page, would it be so well received given it now seems to be a game likened to Blums games.

That photo of the white house which was posted on the FB page was intentionally distorted to create confusion and probably with the hope no one would be able to find out information on it until the big reveal.

But WS's here are smart, hard workers, trying to solve what the hell happened to Marion.

They aren't into games.

Blum has given enough games to last a lifetime.

Acknowledging the continued work by people here EVEN IF it means some of the information has been found prior by MB team, is something everyone should be proud of.

This isn't about one person finding information, how could that be anyways? No, this is about a community that was asked yrs ago to help find Marion, a community that shares what they find without games or distorted truths.

If Joni is calling for more game playing and people have already found the information, I will have no problem sharing it all under those posts.

My focus is helping to find out what actually happened to Marion Barter, not playing mind games on a page that was set up for the very thing we have all united for.

Sifting found information on whether its relevant to the case or RUBBISH, is NOT our decision to make. That is up to the investigation team.


To me some have lost sight on what this case is about and taken a leaf out of RB's book who should have no voice.

Keeping the current tide running on this investigation is not about carrot dangling.
People lose interest very quickly when that happens.

Posting up relevant information on a page set to find Marion should be clear and precise, not a game of cat and mouse.

I have heard some want this thread shut down.
Why?
Because we all work hard at researching or because someone is afraid we know too much.

I have to wonder IF the people who do know the Blum family posted up real information under that post by MB FB, would that stop the games?

Missing persons isnt a game.

It's realife.

Time to refocus your direction I would say to that page.


JMO MOO IMO


Congratulations to all the tireless workers on here who have revealed so much over the years.

I am in awe of what you have all uncovered.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Yesterday Joni posted this up on the MB FB page.

In part: "I'd like some feedback on these kind of posts, where information that we have discovered earlier (eg. this post content it was February this year during the inquest ) is put up, but without the complete picture.

Is it annoying or interesting to you ? Do you like the challenge of going searching yourself ? Is the older information of interest to you even if it isn't currently what is being worked on ? ......."


The MB missing persons case has attracted wide spread audiences and the person of interest RB has become a massive drawcard as people discover such complexities to his life and the entanglement of an innocent woman who is still missing, possibly murdered.


RB created a lifelong game of cat and mouse, deceptions and drawn out games to attract people.

Reading this post by Joni reminds me of the same in a way.

Whilst there is NO DOUBT much of the information found so far, and more which has not yet been made public at this time, has been due to the tireless work of a TEAM of people behind Sally, I have to say that the Websleuths here have made a massive impact toward the search for Marion and the life of Blum.
I see this everyday as I look back on pages of information posted here and on recent discoverings by sleuths still working hard behind the scenes here on this forum.

Finding information on a missing person isn't about who found what first, who posts up first on any given forum, but it is about a community working together to unearth any snippet of information that may help.

It isn't a game, like Blum set up, it is a real case, real people, everyday people who give up some time in their lives to try and help bring a missing person home to their loved ones.

Asking the community if they like games or dropping pings to communities to ferret away trying to find clues reminds me of a cludeo game where the main player already has all the cards.

I have to wonder now IF the sleuth that actually found that white house here and then posted it all up on that FB page, would it be so well received given it now seems to be a game likened to Blums games.

That photo of the white house which was posted on the FB page was intentionally distorted to create confusion and probably with the hope no one would be able to find out information on it until the big reveal.

But WS's here are smart, hard workers, trying to solve what the hell happened to Marion.

They aren't into games.

Blum has given enough games to last a lifetime.

Acknowledging the continued work by people here EVEN IF it means some of the information has been found prior by MB team, is something everyone should be proud of.

This isn't about one person finding information, how could that be anyways? No, this is about a community that was asked yrs ago to help find Marion, a community that shares what they find without games or distorted truths.

If Joni is calling for more game playing and people have already found the information, I will have no problem sharing it all under those posts.

My focus is helping to find out what actually happened to Marion Barter, not playing mind games on a page that was set up for the very thing we have all united for.

Sifting found information on whether its relevant to the case or RUBBISH, is NOT our decision to make. That is up to the investigation team.


To me some have lost sight on what this case is about and taken a leaf out of RB's book who should have no voice.

Keeping the current tide running on this investigation is not about carrot dangling.
People lose interest very quickly when that happens.

Posting up relevant information on a page set to find Marion should be clear and precise, not a game of cat and mouse.

I have heard some want this thread shut down.
Why?
Because we all work hard at researching or because someone is afraid we know too much.

I have to wonder IF the people who do know the Blum family posted up real information under that post by MB FB, would that stop the games?

Missing persons isnt a game.

It's realife.

Time to refocus your direction I would say to that page.


JMO MOO IMO


Congratulations to all the tireless workers on here who have revealed so much over the years.

I am in awe of what you have all uncovered.

Where did you get the information that “someone wants the thread shut down”

 

[mishy66]

Where did you get the information that “someone wants the thread shut down”

That's irrelevant.
My post is about the effort WS's have had in this case.

 

[BonnieB]

Re: @mishy66 "It isn't a game, like Blum set up, it is a real case, real people, everyday people who give up some time in their lives to try and help bring a missing person home to their loved ones."
"I have heard some want this thread shut down."

Somewhere out there, is the one obscure scrap of evidence that will lead to Marion Barter and to Blum's conviction.

Should the search for that crucial piece of evidence be left to a small band of researchers known as the super sleuths?
Or perhaps to the police who initially denied that Marion was ever a Missing Person?

Someone, somewhere, possibly on this forum, will find that evidence.

I have to ask this question, does Sally want only a handful of people searching for her mum or a dedicated team of many volunteers who give up hours of their precious time with one goal in mind - to find Marion Barter.