Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

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Could someone correct me if I’m wrong, aside from Marion’s bank account being drained over a period of several weeks, to the amount of $80K it was mentioned in episode 29 podcast a bank document was found that confirmed a further $80.000 K was electronically transferred late October 1997 to an international bank account? Are these two seperate withdrawals correct making the total sum missing from Marion’s account/s approximately $160K more or less? Thanks in advance
 
The bank stuff remains somewhat confusing/mysterious. I don’t think there have bas been any official record presented of the $5000 removals. We primarily know this from Sally & in the first inquest the Rep from Colonial Bank mentioned evidence of a high interest account where there would be 5k limit per day (but didn’t specify what that evidence was, but I assumed he meant evidence that suggests a connection to MB).

I also don’t think we know for sure if the $5k removals were then put into the Ashmore account and then withdrawn in October, or if the 80k withdrawn in Oct was additional money. But I think the general belief is that the 80k wirhdrawn in OCt is in addition to what was withdrawn earlier—money Marion had unrelated to the sale of her house.

The other confusing part is that Sally believes Marion had a commonwealth account, although no one has presented any official evidence of any MB account at commonwealth in 1997 (althouth in most recent podcast the indicate having a transmittal paper related to commonwealth dates October 14 1997) Presumably any evidence of an MB account at commonwealth should exist. The colonial records seem to be less well kept after the merger, but commonwealth seems to have other records from that time. This info was probably documented in the missing persons investigators “running sheet” that is also missing.
 
Eyespywithmylittleeye said:
The inquest hasn’t finished yet nor the podcast so I suspect at some stage it will be addressed. And to be honest who’s to say an apology has not been made privately. We dont know if the man of many names knew the real FR or vice versa. So let’s wait snd see. At the time of going to Belgium that was the only Remakel. And if it was my mum I’d have done exactly the same thing. I’m sure it will be addressed at the appropriate time.
Click to expand...
Yes, you're probably right, perhaps they'll tack it on at the end, sort of like an afterthought rather than address the elephant in the room first and get it out of the way. Not having a go at you Eyespywithmylittleeye, just thinking that through. Whoops, I said I wasn't going to talk about it anymore and here I am, still going on about it, haha. I really stop now :) Cheers
 
This is not real, it's just my imagination.

The Name change. The Boarding pass, married, home duties.

Let's suppose that Marion knows her lover as FNR.
He tells her he is a millionaire, and will buy her a mansion in Europe.
A new life with him.
She is swayed but will only do it If they are married.
So, he proposes marriage to her in Australia, but insists that he will only marry her in Europe with his family attending, in their new mansion with servants. She will be a pampered housewife. She giggles at that. It will be amazingly romantic.
But, Marion hesitates before she leaves, as she is taking a huge risk, so she demands that they must get married before they go.
He has a problem. He cant marry her for real, cause he's already married, and he doesn't love her, he just wants to steal her money.
The man of many names tells her to change her name to her soon to be married name. R.
She does this and is satisfied for now, awaiting her wedding , and housewife with servants, life in Europe.
They fly out separately. He gives her some excuse Work, flights etc.
FNR, manages to get all of Marion's documents into shared luggage. Leaving her main luggage at Airport.
Travel in Europe.
At some stage,
FNR, pre purchases Marions ticket back to Australia. She needs to go back to withdraw her money. He presents Marion with a blank new boarding pass for her to fill in for re entry to Australia. He tells her he always fills his out prior, to save time.
Marion happily fills out her boarding pass, and ticks Married, and adds home duties, because she believes she will be married and a house wife, by the time she eventually boards the flight back to Australia. She fills out her own boarding pass, her own handwriting. but she doesnot add her passport number, on the pass. It's added later by whoever flew back to Australia on that flight.
He puts her boarding pass with her future flight ticket and her passport, in with all her other documents.
Marion never leaves Europe. ?
Someone else flies back to Australia using Marion's pre filled in boarding pass, and passport, to steal her $80,000 in savings.
Clue :look at the boarding pass. The Passport number was added at a different time, as its written in a different pen and handwriting.
This is not real, it's just my imagination.
 
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Itsapuzzle said:
Yes, you're probably right, perhaps they'll tack it on at the end, sort of like an afterthought rather than address the elephant in the room first and get it out of the way. Not having a go at you Eyespywithmylittleeye, just thinking that through. Whoops, I said I wasn't going to talk about it anymore and here I am, still going on about it, haha. I really stop now :) Cheers
Click to expand...
I’m not thinking you are having a go at all.. :)because I agree! I think it will be done ‘eventually’ after the inquest. I like to believe that they will address it publicly because I try to see the good in all.. but I think you are most likely right it will be ‘tacked’ on and maybe only due to listener pressure..
 
auntywithflowers said:
This is not real, it's just my imagination.

The Name change. The Boarding pass, married, home duties.

Let's suppose that Marion knows her lover as FNR.
He tells her he is a millionaire, and will buy her a mansion in Europe.
A new life with him.
She is swayed but will only do it If they are married.
So, he proposes marriage to her in Australia, but insists that he will only marry her in Europe with his family attending, in their new mansion with servants. She will be a pampered housewife. She giggles at that. It will be amazingly romantic.
But, Marion hesitates before she leaves, as she is taking a huge risk, so she demands that they must get married before they go.
He has a problem. He cant marry her for real, cause he's already married, and he doesn't love her, he just wants to steal her money.
The man of many names tells her to change her name to her soon to be married name. R.
She does this and is satisfied for now, awaiting her wedding , and housewife with servants, life in Europe.
They fly out separately. He gives her some excuse Work, flights etc.
FNR, manages to get all of Marion's documents into shared luggage. Leaving her main luggage at Airport.
Travel in Europe.
At some stage,
FNR, pre purchases Marions ticket back to Australia. She needs to go back to withdraw her money. He presents Marion with a boarding pass to fill in for re entry to Australia. He tells her he always fills them out prior, so it's already done. Marion happily ticks Married, and adds home duties, because she believes she will be married and a house wife, by the time she boards the flight back to Australia.
He puts her boarding pass with her future flight ticket and her passport, in with all her other documents.
Marion never leaves Europe. ?
Someone else flies back to Australia using Marion's pre filled in boarding pass, and passport, to steal her $80,000 in savings.
Clue :look at the boarding pass. The Passport number was added at a different time, as its written in a different pen and handwriting.
This is not real, it's just my imagination.
Click to expand...
I like your theory but Sally has said the handwriting matches her mums. Yes there’s a different Pen but that ‘could ‘ have been immigration as they do add if passenger has left something off. The thing that has always gotten me is the incorrect spelling of Novotel by a school teacher? Also - re-entry cards used to be handed out during the flight.. but he could have one I spose from previous a previous flight…
 
Here’s what we know about the bank situation…

New info from latest podcast
CBA document says there was an ‘automatic funds transfer 14 October 1997’.

We also learned at inquest last week:
RB purchased a security envelope in Ballina, through CBA on 14 October 1997.

Here’s what we already knew:
25 April 1997
Marion sells home for $165k.

2 June 1997
After settlement etc, Marion’s mortgage (with Colonial) was discharged. She opened a high interest earning account with Colonial which had a restriction of withdrawing a maximum of $5k a day.

Aug to Sept 1997
$5k withdrawn daily for 3.5 weeks at CBA Byron Bay with 3 days in middle at CBA Burleigh Heads, totalling between $85k to $120k.

After Marion failed to call for Owen’s birthday, Sally called CBA telebanking to see if there was activity on mum’s account from the UK. Telebanking broke protocol and revealed that if Marion was in the UK, then someone was draining her account in Byron.

According to CBA at 2021 inquest, no CBA records remain from that time and they can’t prove these alleged incidents ever happened. There is confusion on whether Marion only had the one Colonial account. Sally insists it was CBA and didn’t even know about Colonial as she only had the CBA account details to deposit car sale money into. All Colonial branches later became CBA.

14 October 1997
CBA ‘automatic funds transfer' as per inquest brief of evidence.
RB purchased a security envelope in Ballina, through CBA.

15 October 1997
$80,000 withdrawn from Colonial State Bank, Ashmore.

22 October 1997
Sally takes a photo of Marion to CBA Byron and they writes Sally’s number on it. Sally also reports bank incident and Marion missing to Byron Police.

About week later
Sally receives call from whom she thought was Byron Police. He found Marion and she doesn’t want anyone to know where she is or what she’s doing. Byron Police deny they ever made this call.

All other enquiries from Byron Police are about Colonial Ashmore and they never mention CBA Byron or Burleigh Heads. They claim they spoke to a securities officer at Colonial who sighted Marion. However, Colonial say they never heard from police and never had a securities officer.

April 1998
Initial Byron Police notes state $80k was wired possibly overseas.
Podcast Ep3 50:30, reading notes from Byron Bay Police Graham Childs says, “one possible reason for her behaviour is that she has returned to Australia with a companion and has transferred the funds [80k] to England to purchase a property there with a view to move to England.”

2004
Barclays Bank UK transferred about $14k to the CBA Aus, due to seven years of inactivity. Sally thinks Marion mentioned putting about $20k in Barclays to access during her vacation.

Let me know if anything is incorrect.
 
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What's to prevent someone from forging their own boarding passes.

If flying is part of someone's scamming"career". then it seems likely they may have forged boarding passes all ready for the next victims.

Maybe the vicitims are fooled into what they're signing. Maybe they don't "see it" as a boarding pass.
 
I agree Tootsie. We know he lies on passenger cards. In fact, very little on them, if anything, is true. I don't think we need to take the info on them as gospel. Who knows what he asked Marion to say? Maybe he told her to loosen up, play a game and pretend to be someone else for fun. Maybe he her to lie for tax purposes. Or for his safety because he had an angry ex wife. Who knows?!

If the info on the passenger card doesn't make sense or add up, it's because he wanted it that way. He is a master of confusion to disguise his criminal activity.

The whole point was to steal from her and make it look like she ran off overseas with Fernand (not him) to buy a house. And he succeeded.

He lied about everything. The con was deep. So why do we expect him to allow Marion to tell the truth on an official document? I'm still not even sure she wrote it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
auntywithflowers said:
This is not real, it's just my imagination.

The Name change. The Boarding pass, married, home duties.

Let's suppose that Marion knows her lover as FNR.
He tells her he is a millionaire, and will buy her a mansion in Europe.
A new life with him.
She is swayed but will only do it If they are married.
So, he proposes marriage to her in Australia, but insists that he will only marry her in Europe with his family attending, in their new mansion with servants. She will be a pampered housewife. She giggles at that. It will be amazingly romantic.
But, Marion hesitates before she leaves, as she is taking a huge risk, so she demands that they must get married before they go.
He has a problem. He cant marry her for real, cause he's already married, and he doesn't love her, he just wants to steal her money.
The man of many names tells her to change her name to her soon to be married name. R.
She does this and is satisfied for now, awaiting her wedding , and housewife with servants, life in Europe.
They fly out separately. He gives her some excuse Work, flights etc.
FNR, manages to get all of Marion's documents into shared luggage. Leaving her main luggage at Airport.
Travel in Europe.
At some stage,
FNR, pre purchases Marions ticket back to Australia. She needs to go back to withdraw her money. He presents Marion with a blank new boarding pass for her to fill in for re entry to Australia. He tells her he always fills his out prior, to save time.
Marion happily fills out her boarding pass, and ticks Married, and adds home duties, because she believes she will be married and a house wife, by the time she eventually boards the flight back to Australia. She fills out her own boarding pass, her own handwriting. but she doesnot add her passport number, on the pass. It's added later by whoever flew back to Australia on that flight.
He puts her boarding pass with her future flight ticket and her passport, in with all her other documents.
Marion never leaves Europe. ?
Someone else flies back to Australia using Marion's pre filled in boarding pass, and passport, to steal her $80,000 in savings.
Clue :look at the boarding pass. The Passport number was added at a different time, as its written in a different pen and handwriting.
This is not real, it's just my imagination.
Click to expand...


I like this thinking. We do tend to complicate things when solving problems.
This idea is very plausible!
 
mishy66 said:
Yes I know. I was meaning that the connection to Marion on meeting her eventually could be under the guise of him saying he was / related to, the famous football person
Click to expand...

I really doubt Marion knew who Fernand Remakel was as a player, even with her connections to Johnny Warren. He only played 1 cap for Luxembourg's main national side, as a defender, and was subbed off. He also played 3 games for Union which is part of the Luxembourg national league, but honestly that league is pretty bad - Union only ever won 2 games against other European clubs in the UEFA league in its entire history.

I mean making your national team is a big achievement for anyone, but he was far from famous. He was to be honest one of the worst players for one of the worst clubs in Europe (to be fair, even the worst player from the worst club is still pretty good). I doubt he was memorable to Marion, especially 30 years later.
 
ikarka said:
I really doubt Marion knew who Fernand Remakel was as a player, even with her connections to Johnny Warren. He only played 1 cap for Luxembourg's main national side, as a defender, and was subbed off. He also played 3 games for Union which is part of the Luxembourg national league, but honestly that league is pretty bad - Union only ever won 2 games against other European clubs in its entire history.

I mean making your national team is a big achievement for anyone, but he was far from famous. He was to be honest one of the worst players for one of the worst clubs in Europe (to be fair, even the worst player from the worst club is still pretty good). I doubt he was memorable to Marion, especially 30 years later.
Click to expand...


Yes sorry you are missing my point.
I note FR using the reference to a football player in 'his country' who was well known there as a guise to have Marion trust him with some common denominator between them... football. I didnt say Marion knew the player ONLY that FR may have used this connection to football being played OS as a way to introduce commonality and build trust.
 
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TootsieFootsie said:
What's to prevent someone from forging their own boarding passes.

If flying is part of someone's scamming"career". then it seems likely they may have forged boarding passes all ready for the next victims.

Maybe the vicitims are fooled into what they're signing. Maybe they don't "see it" as a boarding pass.
Click to expand...
Definitely plausible. As I mentioned the nov’a’ tel spelling error would make sense coming from a person who’s first language is not English.. perfect sense. A school teacher not so much.
 
mishy66 said:
Yes sorry you are missing my point.
I note FR using the reference to a football player in 'his country' who was well known there as a guise to have Marion trust him with some common denominator between them... football. I didnt say Marion knew the player ONLY that RF may have used this connection to football being played OS as a way to introduce commonality and build trust.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I see. Sorry for misunderstanding. Yes, that is very plausible especially as I believe in the last episode it was stated that he was good at finding connections to build trust. Perhaps he deliberately picked a player who had some recorded information available to verify his story, but not enough to be properly fact checked by Marion or others.
 
What I find amazing is that from 1960s-70s, Belgium has clear record of him being a serial criminal. Not much later AU considers prosecution for falsifying citizenship documents and gets records of his earlier crimes. Then, from what we can tell, he continues to crime rigorously without any consequences (despite complaints over the years from at least two women and apparently one additional one from Belgium (Andree Flamme). Why so many charges early in Belgium (they were clearly on to him) and then law enforcement just turns a blind eye to it all? AU knew of several identities — he wasn’t hiding that well.
 
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