Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

[Mel 1303]

I listened to the podcast and re the real Fernand, I didn't hear an apology. There was something about how they were on the right track.

Sort of an end justifies the means is how I took it.

In My Opinion.

I agree. They were on the right track, as far as the name and the country, but there was no evidence that the old man who was doorstopped was the person they were looking for. He was treated very poorly. Sally is a desperate daughter, but the media team around her should have far more professionalism. As media professionals, the treatment and public depiction of the man in Luxembourg was very unethical and the man deserves an apology.

 

[Estelle]

VPW - He’s an accountant in Ballina. Two links below.

Mr Vernon Paul Ware | TPB

About Us , MF Partners , Ballina, NSW, Australia

Yes I didn't want to put his full name just in case.

 

[mishy66]

Many people put younger photos of themselves on the internet. I thought it could be RB.

Let's not assume this is a young RB. Doing that can cause harm to a potential innocent person as we have seen in this case re FR from Lux. If you search this person on social media you will see that he is a young person today as seen on his video on his page.

 

[SamintheSak]

Ahoy y'all,

Does anyone know where to find information about Ilona Kinczel's death in 1977? Was she still in Australia?

Is there any proof she and Wouters were even together before Australia? Both list themselves as single on entering.

 

[mishy66]

The similarities between Jo’s story and Marion’s are uncanny. Especially the fact that they both went to Sussex on arrival in the UK. He must have some connection there.

I know Sally don’t believe it, but it’s possible that Marion placed a personal ad. I wonder if anyone had checked old newspapers? Either that, or he ran into her somewhere and recognised her from Switzerland, though I think his allegation that married Marion had a fling with him while travelling with her first husband is rubbish. Looking forward to the next episode about RB. And he has definitely been listening to the podcast to know about the pilot. I have family in the navy and in aviation and no one walks around in their uniform in their spare time or goes to pick up boxes in uniform, even wearing the hat. What a load of bull…
So far I think he either physically did something to her, or conned her out of her money and she was heart broken and embarrassed and couldn’t face her family.
As for the real Remakel, I still have no sympathy for him. He showed a complete lack of human empathy and placed his needs above those of a person in need. Had he acted in a kind way, they would have been so much less speculation about him. I know some disagree and he has every right to refuse to help a stranger (even by allowing himself to be ruled out). I guess I value the needs of a missing person’s family over his right to privacy. There you go, we’re all different : )

Agree with you 100% on all accounts

 

[Estelle]

What Is a Company Formation Agent? - OCCRP

Put simply, a formation agent is a company that creates other companies on behalf of clients around the world.

The process is quick, easy, and remarkably cheap. Although many turn to formation agents for legitimate business reasons, illicit actors might seek out their services to dodge taxes, hide their ownership of high-value assets, or squirrel away dirty money.

It’s no coincidence that these firms are exceptionally popular in tax havens and financial secrecy jurisdictions. Even a cursory internet search turns up an abundance of eager firms in Belize, Panama, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Cyprus, Seychelles, Malta, the Cayman Islands, and the British Virgin Islands, to name but a few.

 

[mishy66]

oh excellent find !

Feb 1994

MAN 54 years old, academic
living in Brisbane, location
excellent economy, looking for
French lady speaking English,
frank and dynamic, to explore
possibility of living together; widow or
divorced acceptable, no objection
children if adults and independent.
Write and send photo to Mr. Pierre
H. de GAYE, P.O. Box 241,
CORINDA, Queensland 4075.

This is fascinating!


Linkedin shows gardener from
BARNSDALE GARDENS LIMITED Rutland England

 

[mishy66]

His birth names were David _Father ...Coppenolle -_Mother

Hence Willy David ( Van Coppenolle )

Maria Coppenolle married Worters

hence Willy Worters

Willy Worters came to Australia 1969

1976 ...Became Frederic De H .

Most of his names he used on his business record as founders .
It figures that he was born to a reasonable well to do or connected family tree including his mothers so a sense of entitlement or expectations to remain or be well heeled .

I am sure you maybe correct about RLW but i don't think it was the main reason

After Marion when he used Remarkle
he uses what the witness from Sydney says as his real Australian name Frederic D Hadevary .

Later on we have found derivatives of RLW and Ritchie Rich .

I can see why he used certain names at certain times and when you think on it he must have been reasonably well know to clubs and social settings in around Ballina Casino Wollonbar and it seems he branched out from there to Byron, Yamba Grafton Nymbodia Lismore , many more places within easy drives and was in the area for quite a few years . I wonder how many people will be coming out of the wood work now , I can only imagine the gossip going on .

Anyway i think certain names were used for one reason and some were used for other obvious reasons due to familiarity so having a name like Frederick can go to Ric or Fred or Richard or Dick the locals probably used one or the other depending . Even as Rick Blum the Blum is connected to family we have found

He used the other family names from his past etc to some degree ....Remakel is the odd one out for me at the moment .

Yep agree 100% And the connection to Remakel will become apparent I reckon as the inquest moves on

 

[Estelle]

Ahoy y'all,

Does anyone know where to find information about Ilona Kinczel's death in 1977? Was she still in Australia?

Is there any proof she and Wouters were even together before Australia? Both list themselves as single on entering.

TIMELINE TO ILONA'S DEATH IN MELBOURNE

1968-08-19 Ilona Australia visa certificate of conduct
1968-12-13 Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5
1969-03-07 Ilona correspondence address Overijse 15 Avenue Henri Conscience
1969-04-16 Ilona residence at 46, rue des Francs, Etterbeek
1969-04-23 Australian visitor visa issued to WW Brussels
1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels.
1969-05-11 Ilona flew to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters, status Never Married flew Qantas from London to Perth on a three months holiday visa
1969-05-26 Applied for resident status Willy Wouters residence 6 Gosbell St, Paddington which is in Sydney
In NAA file, RB's application to Aus lists wife IK. She has her own public file with photos.
1969-10-02 Willy Wouters granted resident status in Sydney due to alleged marriage to Ilona Kinczel
1970-02-15 Ilona left Australia on UT2506 from Sydney to Belgium?
1970-02-15 Willy Wouters departed Australia without a re-entry visa on UT2506 to Belgium, status Divorced (2)
More convictions in Belgium and France, for fraud, attempted fraud, breach of trust, impersonation. Various short prison sentences in France, the longest 4 years, most to be served concurrently.
1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid?) Could this man really have been RB or another man? Was the marriage certificate he showed to get Australian residence a fake?
1971 Ilona first child born (daughter ER)
1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 WW sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques in absentia in France.
1972-11-16 Willy Wouters Lille France, 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Willy Waitress Fraud 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentences)
1973 Ilona second child born (son CR)
1974-01 Willy Wouters App Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974-05-21 Willy Wouters discharged from prison. He may have then joined Ilona in Hungary but where he was is unaccounted for.
1976?? Willy Wouters must have returned to Australia but no records can be found say immigration dept. Did he actually return with or before Ilona in 1976 as M J Reid? Did they just separate or divorce or were never really married?
1976 Ilona arrives in Australia again and goes to St Kilda, Melbourne (implied from death certificate) Was Ilona’s surname Reid then?
1976-02-12 Willy Wouters changes name to FD de Hereditary
1976-02-20 FD de Hedervary marries wife #2 Dianne
1976-02-23 FD de Hedervary applies for Australian citizenship. No mention made about being absent from Australia and WW claims his passport was lost in 1970
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian citizenship granted but obtained by fraudulent means as entry permit invalid.
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary residence 303 old south head Road, Bondi NSW
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian passport issued
1976-06 Willy Wouters false impersonation, Paris, 1 year sentence
1976-07-28 FD and Diane depart Australia
1976-09-30 to 1977-01-24 Willy Wouters financial frauds in Brugges, Brussels and several other towns (3)
Between Oct 76 and Feb 77 arrested in Wiltz, Luxembourg as Roger Lauzoney born Casablanca in 45 but police found passport on him in name of FdeH. Authorities knew he had used several other aliases.
1976-1977 Europe FDeH committed a number of criminal offences. These include forgery, bad cheques, forging the signature of Roger Lazoney/Lauzoney and opening a bank account in that name, using a forged seal/die, using a forged stamp in the name of Bernard Dupont, using other names he wasn't entitled to including Wilson and Fleming. There's a list of items he allegedly fraudulently obtained including books valued at 200,000 Francs, stamp collection valued at 450,000 FR and various items of furniture worth 176,000 FR from SPRL Galeries de Jonckheere which appears to be a fine art gallery. Also fraudulent matters concerning a car and a property lease.
1977-03-17 FD and Diane return to Australia
1977-03-22 FD departs Australia again
1977-05-31 to 1978-09-01 Various frauds in Belgium
1977-07-13 Ilona died, St Kilda, Victoria of Myocardial ischaemia (heart), The Coroner at Melbourne Mr H.W. Pascoe ordered burial of the body without inquest. What happened to her two children? Who was their father?
1978-03 Willy Wouters Tournai forgery 3 or 5 years prison (3)
1978-08-13 FD and Diane return to Australia from Belgium, address 5/48 Towns Road, Vaucluse, Sydney

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

O

BALLINA COIN INVEST PTY. LTD.

ACN: 66294424
BALLINA COIN INVEST PTY. LTD. was incorporated on Sep 02 1994 as an Australian Private Company,Limited by Shares registered in Australia. The company's status is listed as " Active" now.
Ballina Coin Invest Pty. Ltd. has been operating for 27 years 5 months, and 10 days.

Australian Company Number (ACN)
66294424
Company Name
BALLINA COIN INVEST PTY. LTD.
Australian Business Number (ABN)
44066294424
Date of Incorporation
Sep 02 1994
Company Type & Class
Australian Private Company,Limited by Shares
Active Status
Active
Website:
Website

Current Name & Start Date:
CLARENDON HILL INVESTMENTS PTY. LIMITED - 07/02/2000

Are these RB's companies as well?

previous company:
BRAITHWAITE & ASSOCIATES PTY. LTD.

next company:
CORDWELL RESOURCES PTY. LTD.

Is RB associated with this company too?

Company Description: CLARENDON HILL INVESTMENTS PTY. LIMITED is located in URALBA, NEW SOUTH WALES, Australia and is part of the Other Investment Pools and Funds Industry. CLARENDON HILL INVESTMENTS PTY. LIMITED has 2 employees at this location and generates $256,568 in sales (USD). (Employees and Sales figures are modelled). There are 3 companies in the CLARENDON HILL INVESTMENTS PTY. LIMITED corporate family.
Key Principal: VPW

There are two people involved but the other person is not named

Uralba is 11 min drive from Ballina.

Legal Name:Mr VPW
Practice / Trading Name:
Vernon Ware
Registration type:
Individual Tax Agent
Registration number:
69990000
Business address:
Lvl 1
95 Tamar St
Ballina, NSW 2478

Registration status:
Registered
Registration date:
26/09/1995
Registration Expiry Date:
01/10/2022

What do you think is going on here?

Oh dear down the rabbit hole I go again…very interesting find Estelle.

 

[mishy66]

Wowza. Just listened to The Inquest, ep 8 and 9. Those women! We could make a very long list of similarities to Marion. GGB, the Daycare Woman, gave me chills when she spoke of violence, nude photos, and blackmailing-- and that Blum made allegations of child abuse against her care center. Could Blum have done that to Marion, unbeknownst to her, which prompted her to leave the school? It just all too close to the bone.

Yep agree! Hence Marions real concern about getting the school scales back to them that she borrowed! Someone else on this thread commented that he could have lied to the school suggesting Marion was abusing kids and that was why she was so worried and upset about something at school and didnt want to share with family, hence her quick escape........ with her playing straight into FR hands!

 

[mishy66]

TIMELINE TO ILONA'S DEATH IN MELBOURNE

1968-08-19 Ilona Australia visa certificate of conduct
1968-12-13 Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5
1969-03-07 Ilona correspondence address Overijse 15 Avenue Henri Conscience
1969-04-16 Ilona residence at 46, rue des Francs, Etterbeek
1969-04-23 Australian visitor visa issued to WW Brussels
1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels.
1969-05-11 Ilona flew to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters, status Never Married flew Qantas from London to Perth on a three months holiday visa
1969-05-26 Applied for resident status Willy Wouters residence 6 Gosbell St, Paddington which is in Sydney
In NAA file, RB's application to Aus lists wife IK. She has her own public file with photos.
1969-10-02 Willy Wouters granted resident status in Sydney due to alleged marriage to Ilona Kinczel
1970-02-15 Ilona left Australia on UT2506 from Sydney to Belgium?
1970-02-15 Willy Wouters departed Australia without a re-entry visa on UT2506 to Belgium, status Divorced (2)
More convictions in Belgium and France, for fraud, attempted fraud, breach of trust, impersonation. Various short prison sentences in France, the longest 4 years, most to be served concurrently.
1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid?) Could this man really have been RB or another man? Was the marriage certificate he showed to get Australian residence a fake?
1971 Ilona first child born (daughter ER)
1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 WW sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques in absentia in France.
1972-11-16 Willy Wouters Lille France, 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Willy Waitress Fraud 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentences)
1973 Ilona second child born (son CR)
1974-01 Willy Wouters App Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974-05-21 Willy Wouters discharged from prison. He may have then joined Ilona in Hungary but where he was is unaccounted for.
1976?? Willy Wouters must have returned to Australia but no records can be found say immigration dept. Did he actually return with or before Ilona in 1976 as M J Reid? Did they just separate or divorce or were never really married?
1976 Ilona arrives in Australia again and goes to St Kilda, Melbourne (implied from death certificate) Was Ilona’s surname Reid then?
1976-02-12 Willy Wouters changes name to FD de Hereditary
1976-02-20 FD de Hedervary marries wife #2 Dianne
1976-02-23 FD de Hedervary applies for Australian citizenship. No mention made about being absent from Australia and WW claims his passport was lost in 1970
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian citizenship granted but obtained by fraudulent means as entry permit invalid.
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary residence 303 old south head Road, Bondi NSW
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian passport issued
1976-06 Willy Wouters false impersonation, Paris, 1 year sentence
1976-07-28 FD and Diane depart Australia
1976-09-30 to 1977-01-24 Willy Wouters financial frauds in Brugges, Brussels and several other towns (3)
Between Oct 76 and Feb 77 arrested in Wiltz, Luxembourg as Roger Lauzoney born Casablanca in 45 but police found passport on him in name of FdeH. Authorities knew he had used several other aliases.
1976-1977 Europe FDeH committed a number of criminal offences. These include forgery, bad cheques, forging the signature of Roger Lazoney/Lauzoney and opening a bank account in that name, using a forged seal/die, using a forged stamp in the name of Bernard Dupont, using other names he wasn't entitled to including Wilson and Fleming. There's a list of items he allegedly fraudulently obtained including books valued at 200,000 Francs, stamp collection valued at 450,000 FR and various items of furniture worth 176,000 FR from SPRL Galeries de Jonckheere which appears to be a fine art gallery. Also fraudulent matters concerning a car and a property lease.
1977-03-17 FD and Diane return to Australia
1977-03-22 FD departs Australia again
1977-05-31 to 1978-09-01 Various frauds in Belgium
1977-07-13 Ilona died, St Kilda, Victoria of Myocardial ischaemia (heart), The Coroner at Melbourne Mr H.W. Pascoe ordered burial of the body without inquest. What happened to her two children? Who was their father?
1978-03 Willy Wouters Tournai forgery 3 or 5 years prison (3)
1978-08-13 FD and Diane return to Australia from Belgium, address 5/48 Towns Road, Vaucluse, Sydney

WOW!

Thank you!

 

[Podcast Tragic]

I am starting to feel that finally it all makes some sense. The timelines..the name change....the despicable con..the probable warnings to not contact family. What happened after Oct 15th ....where was RB? Can his movements be tracked during this time? Poor Marion and poor Sally.

 

[mishy66]

H'mm, I've subscribed to the Coroner's Court on youtube, Marion Barter inquest, and I haven't received a livestreaming link for Monday. So, could this mean the applications heard on day one were to restrict the public from viewing RB and DB's evidence?

I think so yes

 

[MrsWattle]

Anyone know Diane / Dianne De H maiden name?

 

[Carovb5]

The UK Pierre De Gaye married in 2014…

https://gaddesby.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Church-magazine-September-2014.pdf

This is fascinating!


Linkedin shows gardener from
BARNSDALE GARDENS LIMITED Rutland England

 

[SamintheSak]

TIMELINE TO ILONA'S DEATH IN MELBOURNE

1968-08-19 Ilona Australia visa certificate of conduct
1968-12-13 Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5
1969-03-07 Ilona correspondence address Overijse 15 Avenue Henri Conscience
1969-04-16 Ilona residence at 46, rue des Francs, Etterbeek
1969-04-23 Australian visitor visa issued to WW Brussels
1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels.
1969-05-11 Ilona flew to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters, status Never Married flew Qantas from London to Perth on a three months holiday visa
1969-05-26 Applied for resident status Willy Wouters residence 6 Gosbell St, Paddington which is in Sydney
In NAA file, RB's application to Aus lists wife IK. She has her own public file with photos.
1969-10-02 Willy Wouters granted resident status in Sydney due to alleged marriage to Ilona Kinczel
1970-02-15 Ilona left Australia on UT2506 from Sydney to Belgium?
1970-02-15 Willy Wouters departed Australia without a re-entry visa on UT2506 to Belgium, status Divorced (2)
More convictions in Belgium and France, for fraud, attempted fraud, breach of trust, impersonation. Various short prison sentences in France, the longest 4 years, most to be served concurrently.
1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid?) Could this man really have been RB or another man? Was the marriage certificate he showed to get Australian residence a fake?
1971 Ilona first child born (daughter ER)
1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 WW sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques in absentia in France.
1972-11-16 Willy Wouters Lille France, 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Willy Waitress Fraud 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentences)
1973 Ilona second child born (son CR)
1974-01 Willy Wouters App Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974-05-21 Willy Wouters discharged from prison. He may have then joined Ilona in Hungary but where he was is unaccounted for.
1976?? Willy Wouters must have returned to Australia but no records can be found say immigration dept. Did he actually return with or before Ilona in 1976 as M J Reid? Did they just separate or divorce or were never really married?
1976 Ilona arrives in Australia again and goes to St Kilda, Melbourne (implied from death certificate) Was Ilona’s surname Reid then?
1976-02-12 Willy Wouters changes name to FD de Hereditary
1976-02-20 FD de Hedervary marries wife #2 Dianne
1976-02-23 FD de Hedervary applies for Australian citizenship. No mention made about being absent from Australia and WW claims his passport was lost in 1970
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian citizenship granted but obtained by fraudulent means as entry permit invalid.
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary residence 303 old south head Road, Bondi NSW
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian passport issued
1976-06 Willy Wouters false impersonation, Paris, 1 year sentence
1976-07-28 FD and Diane depart Australia
1976-09-30 to 1977-01-24 Willy Wouters financial frauds in Brugges, Brussels and several other towns (3)
Between Oct 76 and Feb 77 arrested in Wiltz, Luxembourg as Roger Lauzoney born Casablanca in 45 but police found passport on him in name of FdeH. Authorities knew he had used several other aliases.
1976-1977 Europe FDeH committed a number of criminal offences. These include forgery, bad cheques, forging the signature of Roger Lazoney/Lauzoney and opening a bank account in that name, using a forged seal/die, using a forged stamp in the name of Bernard Dupont, using other names he wasn't entitled to including Wilson and Fleming. There's a list of items he allegedly fraudulently obtained including books valued at 200,000 Francs, stamp collection valued at 450,000 FR and various items of furniture worth 176,000 FR from SPRL Galeries de Jonckheere which appears to be a fine art gallery. Also fraudulent matters concerning a car and a property lease.
1977-03-17 FD and Diane return to Australia
1977-03-22 FD departs Australia again
1977-05-31 to 1978-09-01 Various frauds in Belgium
1977-07-13 Ilona died, St Kilda, Victoria of Myocardial ischaemia (heart), The Coroner at Melbourne Mr H.W. Pascoe ordered burial of the body without inquest. What happened to her two children? Who was their father?
1978-03 Willy Wouters Tournai forgery 3 or 5 years prison (3)
1978-08-13 FD and Diane return to Australia from Belgium, address 5/48 Towns Road, Vaucluse, Sydney

Thank you for this!

 

[SamintheSak]

Anyone know Diane / Dianne De H maiden name?

Walker/Walter?

 

[MrsWattle]

There is a real Pierre De Gaye from UK on Facebook with photos of his Balinese wife,

The UK Pierre De Gaye married in 2014…

https://gaddesby.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Church-magazine-September-2014.pdf

 

[mishy66]

It looks to me that if Marion really did return to Australia, she met her demise in possibly the Byron Bay/Ballina area between the date of her return and Owen's Birthday.

I agree with this 100%. Been my view since the start.