Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

[mishy66]

His birth names were David _Father ...Coppenolle -_Mother

Hence Willy David ( Van Coppenolle )

Maria Coppenolle married Worters

hence Willy Worters

Willy Worters came to Australia 1969

1976 ...Became Frederic De H .

Most of his names he used on his business record as founders .
It figures that he was born to a reasonable well to do or connected family tree including his mothers so a sense of entitlement or expectations to remain or be well heeled .

I am sure you maybe correct about RLW but i don't think it was the main reason

After Marion when he used Remarkle
he uses what the witness from Sydney says as his real Australian name Frederic D Hadevary .

Later on we have found derivatives of RLW and Ritchie Rich .

I can see why he used certain names at certain times and when you think on it he must have been reasonably well know to clubs and social settings in around Ballina Casino Wollonbar and it seems he branched out from there to Byron, Yamba Grafton Nymbodia Lismore , many more places within easy drives and was in the area for quite a few years . I wonder how many people will be coming out of the wood work now , I can only imagine the gossip going on .

Anyway i think certain names were used for one reason and some were used for other obvious reasons due to familiarity so having a name like Frederick can go to Ric or Fred or Richard or Dick the locals probably used one or the other depending . Even as Rick Blum the Blum is connected to family we have found

He used the other family names from his past etc to some degree ....Remakel is the odd one out for me at the moment .

Fernand Nicolas Remakel is probably the connection. He was a famous Luxembourg Football player and connects with Marion's John Warren playing overseas

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Walker

Anyone know Diane / Dianne De H maiden name?

 

[Podcast Tragic]

Regardless of all RB's names and businesses and wives...We all know he is a conman with a very very long history.Where was he for the weeks after Oct 15th when the money transfer was made. Where was Marion during this time? Surely this is the most important time frame for knowing what happened to Marion. Sally was only a week away .

 

[mishy66]

The UK Pierre De Gaye married in 2014…

https://gaddesby.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Church-magazine-September-2014.pdf

Yes but if he has used the same name as one of his many alias then there is a connection to the UK , was all I was meaning. His coat of many colours name wise is always from well established people from many walks of life

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

TIMELINE TO ILONA'S DEATH IN MELBOURNE

1968-08-19 Ilona Australia visa certificate of conduct
1968-12-13 Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5
1969-03-07 Ilona correspondence address Overijse 15 Avenue Henri Conscience
1969-04-16 Ilona residence at 46, rue des Francs, Etterbeek
1969-04-23 Australian visitor visa issued to WW Brussels
1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels.
1969-05-11 Ilona flew to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters, status Never Married flew Qantas from London to Perth on a three months holiday visa
1969-05-26 Applied for resident status Willy Wouters residence 6 Gosbell St, Paddington which is in Sydney
In NAA file, RB's application to Aus lists wife IK. She has her own public file with photos.
1969-10-02 Willy Wouters granted resident status in Sydney due to alleged marriage to Ilona Kinczel
1970-02-15 Ilona left Australia on UT2506 from Sydney to Belgium?
1970-02-15 Willy Wouters departed Australia without a re-entry visa on UT2506 to Belgium, status Divorced (2)
More convictions in Belgium and France, for fraud, attempted fraud, breach of trust, impersonation. Various short prison sentences in France, the longest 4 years, most to be served concurrently.
1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid?) Could this man really have been RB or another man? Was the marriage certificate he showed to get Australian residence a fake?
1971 Ilona first child born (daughter ER)
1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 WW sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques in absentia in France.
1972-11-16 Willy Wouters Lille France, 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Willy Waitress Fraud 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentences)
1973 Ilona second child born (son CR)
1974-01 Willy Wouters App Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974-05-21 Willy Wouters discharged from prison. He may have then joined Ilona in Hungary but where he was is unaccounted for.
1976?? Willy Wouters must have returned to Australia but no records can be found say immigration dept. Did he actually return with or before Ilona in 1976 as M J Reid? Did they just separate or divorce or were never really married?
1976 Ilona arrives in Australia again and goes to St Kilda, Melbourne (implied from death certificate) Was Ilona’s surname Reid then?
1976-02-12 Willy Wouters changes name to FD de Hereditary
1976-02-20 FD de Hedervary marries wife #2 Dianne
1976-02-23 FD de Hedervary applies for Australian citizenship. No mention made about being absent from Australia and WW claims his passport was lost in 1970
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian citizenship granted but obtained by fraudulent means as entry permit invalid.
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary residence 303 old south head Road, Bondi NSW
1976-03-25 FD de Hedervary Australian passport issued
1976-06 Willy Wouters false impersonation, Paris, 1 year sentence
1976-07-28 FD and Diane depart Australia
1976-09-30 to 1977-01-24 Willy Wouters financial frauds in Brugges, Brussels and several other towns (3)
Between Oct 76 and Feb 77 arrested in Wiltz, Luxembourg as Roger Lauzoney born Casablanca in 45 but police found passport on him in name of FdeH. Authorities knew he had used several other aliases.
1976-1977 Europe FDeH committed a number of criminal offences. These include forgery, bad cheques, forging the signature of Roger Lazoney/Lauzoney and opening a bank account in that name, using a forged seal/die, using a forged stamp in the name of Bernard Dupont, using other names he wasn't entitled to including Wilson and Fleming. There's a list of items he allegedly fraudulently obtained including books valued at 200,000 Francs, stamp collection valued at 450,000 FR and various items of furniture worth 176,000 FR from SPRL Galeries de Jonckheere which appears to be a fine art gallery. Also fraudulent matters concerning a car and a property lease.
1977-03-17 FD and Diane return to Australia
1977-03-22 FD departs Australia again
1977-05-31 to 1978-09-01 Various frauds in Belgium
1977-07-13 Ilona died, St Kilda, Victoria of Myocardial ischaemia (heart), The Coroner at Melbourne Mr H.W. Pascoe ordered burial of the body without inquest. What happened to her two children? Who was their father?
1978-03 Willy Wouters Tournai forgery 3 or 5 years prison (3)
1978-08-13 FD and Diane return to Australia from Belgium, address 5/48 Towns Road, Vaucluse, Sydney

There’s that address again!
1969-04-16 Ilona residence at 46, rue des Francs, Etterbeek
So they moved in together.. then get married.. Ilona flies here (married) RB flies here (not married).
Have we seen a marriage record as such? From Belgium? Because I’m beginning to think they weren’t married in 1969 if at all.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

To be fair if my Mum had been missing for over 20 years and changed her name to the one guy that fitted the lonely hearts ad then I think I might have been knocking his door down to get an answer whether rightly or wrongly.

I still feel the man of many names knew FR. Why he latched onto his identity in Australia is one of the many questions.

 

[KiwiNZ]

To be fair if my Mum had been missing for over 20 years and changed her name to the one guy that fitted the lonely hearts ad then I think I might have been knocking his door down to get an answer whether rightly or wrongly.

I still feel the man of many names knew FR. Why he latched onto his identity in Australia is one of the many questions.

he knew him alright .. he stole his identity, probably along with many other peoples.

I too would have knocked on the door but not in the approach they did, nor with the ignorance of other cultures and customs. And then continued to insinuate he was the reason for Marion disappearance and encourage negative comments about him on their Facebook page. It is indefensible what they did and how they treated him, when logic said there was every chance he was a victim of stolen identify.

As it turns out the answer to who placed the advert wasn't in Luxembourg it was in the library at Ballina (2hrs away), there wasn't much investigative journalism going on, just sensationalism.

 

[Carovb5]

As it turns out the answer to who placed the advert wasn't in Luxembourg it was in the library at Ballina (2hrs away), there wasn't much investigative journalism going on, just sensationalism.

This. Lazy journalism has caused so many tears, fears and wrong information in many cases and issues around the world.
I understand they contacted him though, nevertheless to see if he looked like the descriptions of Remakel and to see if she was there.

In some cases being friendly does’t get the job done. Us west-Europeans aren’t made of sugar, he’ll survive Worst case: he sues the person that came screaming at his door.

I think he’s glad he now knows someone used his name, so he can go on and look if our conman caused him any legal problems or financial distress.

Just my opinion…

 

[poppypopcorn]

What DID happen to Bryan? He disappeared off the podcast about a year ago I think? There was something at the time about threats after links to a Scientology investigation but is this still the case? Is he on TV still in Australia? I think I preferred him to Alison.

 

[MrsWattle]

CLARENDON HILL INVESTMENTS PTY. LIMITED
Company Number
066294424
Status
Registered
Incorporation Date
2 September 1994 (over 27 years ago)
Company Type
Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Jurisdiction
Australia
Business Number
44066294424
Registered Address

• BALLINA
• 2478
• New South Wales
• Australia

Previous Names

• BALLINA COIN INVEST PTY. LTD.

Registry Page

 

[Carovb5]

1968-12-13 Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5

Don’t know if it’s important or not, but ‘Croussoo de Wavre’ doesn’t exist. Could it be a typo and be ‘chaussée de wavre’?

 

[centred]

Fernand Nicolas Remakel is probably the connection. He was a famous Luxembourg Football player and connects with Marion's John Warren playing overseas

He used the name FNR way before he met Marion

 

[Estelle]

Don’t know if it’s important or not, but ‘Croussoo de Wavre’ doesn’t exist. Could it be a typo and be ‘chaussée de wavre’?

Could be. I simply had taken someone else's timeline and added to it as I went along. Maybe that person was trying to read handwriting.

 

[centred]

Cabooter, Jan Willy - BE 0580.945.173 | Business and financial data | Bizzy

Property on Realo

I am just going to leave this one here , I have to close down all my tabs and realized i had been in the middle of this one and never posted and now i cannot remember which search it came from ...sorry , I have had too many distractions today but it was relevant to something haha , Funny though how much the name Jan/anette comes up in this story

 

[Carovb5]

Cabooter, Jan Willy - BE 0580.945.173 | Business and financial data | Bizzy

Property on Realo

I am just going to leave this one here , I have to close down all my tabs and realized i had been in the middle of this one and never posted and now i cannot remember which search it came from ...sorry , I have had too many distractions today but it was relevant to something haha , Funny though how much the name Jan/anette comes up in this story

There’s a man living nearby with that name (without the ‘Willy’) that’s very active on facebook in dutch. He isn’t the type of fancy guy he would steal his name from. So might be a real business and not one of Willy’s scams…

 

[Carovb5]

Cabooter, Jan Willy - BE 0580.945.173 | Business and financial data | Bizzy

Property on Realo

I am just going to leave this one here , I have to close down all my tabs and realized i had been in the middle of this one and never posted and now i cannot remember which search it came from ...sorry , I have had too many distractions today but it was relevant to something haha , Funny though how much the name Jan/anette comes up in this story

‘Jan’ is a very very common male name in Belgium/The Netherlands. “Jean” is the french variation of this name (in France and the French speaking part of Belgium).

(Thought this might be interesting for the English speaking people, because Jan and Jean are often female names there )

 

[ikarka]

Amazing work on tracking down the details of Ilona!

Without going too mad on the speculation, I did some research and it does seem that death via myocardial schema is quite unusual in a woman her age. From https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/a0...e424fca70635/aihw-cdk-10.pdf.aspx?inline=true:

"The incidence of acute coronary events increased markedly with increasing age, from 5 per 100,000 among women aged 25–34 (13 per 100,000 for men) to 2,100 per 100,000 among women aged 85 and over (2,900 per 100,000 for men)"

* I should note that this figure has reduced and was almost certainly higher in the 1970s. Even still, I would imagine it was still quite rare.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Don’t know if it’s important or not, but ‘Croussoo de Wavre’ doesn’t exist. Could it be a typo and be ‘chaussée de wavre’?

No, most of the addresses he's given are fake, even in the early days. Whenever you think there's a typo, it's not. It's a deliberate obfuscation from this con man.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Don’t know if it’s important or not, but ‘Croussoo de Wavre’ doesn’t exist. Could it be a typo and be ‘chaussée de wavre’?

Yeah the only thing I could find too was Chaussée de Wavre which happens to run through Etterbeek

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

He used the name FNR way before he met Marion

The standard of football in Luxembourg is poor in international terms. In the late 1960s it was even worse and only played at amateur semi/professional level.

I can’t see Johnny Warren having met or coming across FR. We have no proof the Warren’s ever went to Switzerland in early 1969 before they returned to Australia. The only thing that muddies the waters is that Johnny wanted to do a (Fifa) coaching course when coming to the UK in Sept 1968. Fifa is based in Switzerland but this was early days of coaching courses.