Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

[Itsapuzzle]

oh excellent find !

Feb 1994

MAN 54 years old, academic
living in Brisbane, location
excellent economy, looking for
French lady speaking English,
frank and dynamic, to explore
possibility of living together; widow or
divorced acceptable, no objection
children if adults and independent.
Write and send photo to Mr. Pierre
H. de GAYE, P.O. Box 241,
CORINDA, Queensland 4075.

I hope that Post Office didn't burn down!

 

[centred]

If he is Mr. Pierre H de GAYE, how funny that he has a habit of posing as someone of noble background (de Hedervary).

'de' and 'von' means 'from' and implies the family comes from aristocratic beginnings. Back in the day, you were given a first name and your last name was 'from' where your family was from and had been for centuries - either name of the estate they owned or the region they ruled.

I bet he later also used Degaye as he did Dehedervary.

Here is where Pierre comes from Désiré Jean Pierre Joseph David
His birth father ! of course

 

[centred]

Can I ask if anyone has ever seen a photo of Marion smiling ?
I have been meaning to bring this up before as I saw ONE in the last few weeks but cannot find it again .

The reason i ask is in all photos of Marion through her life she has her mouth closed .( I have a friend who does this because she has never liked her teeth smile .
When i saw this photo i remember thinking she had a rather unusual set of teeth
Anyone see it ? As she would likely different or more recognizable if you saw her teeth when smiling as her smile was unique ??

Maybe the dentist fixed them

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just looking at the Le Courrier rencontres again (from 1990 to 2000, not just 1994) and honestly they all sound exactly the same!

Suiters around the same age looking for single, widowed or divorced people who are independent and in a good place in their lives. Then they boast a little about how good a catch they are themselves. Many use similar words and ask for photos.

Just like online dating today, people ask for similar things (overreaching), put their best foot forward (exagerate) and they all end up sounding similar. Especially if they have no idea what to write and use what they saw someone else do.

So it's really hard to tell if some were written by a conman or a real person. Or maybe they're all cons!

There aren't that many rencontres in Le Courrier, so I suppose it's possible many were written by RB. At the very least we can discount all of the ones asking to contact the paper, but really, there is little to differentiate them. I'll keep looking though.

I bet some rookie detective got the job of going through each one and trying to figure it out too!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Disclaimer: I'm not a con, so I can't speak to RB's experience But... he uses what he has access to.

The best fake IDs are real. I assume he is taking existing IDs and documents, and altering them slightly to create new aliases. The evidence is that many of his names are simply variations of previous IDs he's had access to.

Why those names in particular? I suspect he is stealing them overseas, altering them and using them here, and vice versa.

I don't know if he is also stealing wallets, homes, financial and real estate records, but some of these names might be altered from previous victims. I don't doubt he tried to use JO and Marion's documents to make new aliases for himself (and accomplice), to use overseas.

He also sometimes uses deed poll to change his name. So yes, he could chose ANY name. I can only assume he has stolen real documents in these names, overseas. Like Richard Lloyd Westbury. I suspect he stole that name or something like it, overseas. Once in Aus, he changes his name by deed poll so he can get an Aussie passport, so now he has (potentially) bank records and title deeds overseas in those names, plus an Aussie passport as photo ID to prove legitimacy. IDK, something like that.

I think he chooses names with slight variations of real people or perhaps names that are applicable to whichever country he is travelling to or in.
His UK name would have to be

Richard ‘Lloyd’ Westbury

perhaps it opens doors for him or he says he is from the same family as

‘Lord’ Richard Westbury

 

[Estelle]

Here is where Pierre comes from Désiré Jean Pierre Joseph David
His birth father ! of course

But not many men would want "Gaye" as their surname!

 

[Carovb5]

Can I ask if anyone has ever seen a photo of Marion smiling ?
I have been meaning to bring this up before as I saw ONE in the last few weeks but cannot find it again .

The reason i ask is in all photos of Marion through her life she has her mouth closed .( I have a friend who does this because she has never liked her teeth smile .
When i saw this photo i remember thinking she had a rather unusual set of teeth
Anyone see it ? As she would likely different or more recognizable if you saw her teeth when smiling as her smile was unique ??

The one on top of this article?
Daughter of missing woman Marion Barter reveals 'something happened' to her mum before she vanished | Daily Mail Online

 

[centred]

I think he chooses names with slight variations of real people or perhaps names that are applicable to whichever country he is travelling to or in.
His UK name would have to be

Richard ‘Lloyd’ Westbury

perhaps it opens doors for him or he says he is from the same family as

‘Lord’ Richard Westbury

His birth names were David _Father ...Coppenolle -_Mother

Hence Willy David ( Van Coppenolle )

Maria Coppenolle married Worters

hence Willy Worters

Willy Worters came to Australia 1969

1976 ...Became Frederic De H .

Most of his names he used on his business record as founders .
It figures that he was born to a reasonable well to do or connected family tree including his mothers so a sense of entitlement or expectations to remain or be well heeled .

I am sure you maybe correct about RLW but i don't think it was the main reason

After Marion when he used Remarkle
he uses what the witness from Sydney says as his real Australian name Frederic D Hadevary .

Later on we have found derivatives of RLW and Ritchie Rich .

I can see why he used certain names at certain times and when you think on it he must have been reasonably well know to clubs and social settings in around Ballina Casino Wollonbar and it seems he branched out from there to Byron, Yamba Grafton Nymbodia Lismore , many more places within easy drives and was in the area for quite a few years . I wonder how many people will be coming out of the wood work now , I can only imagine the gossip going on .

Anyway i think certain names were used for one reason and some were used for other obvious reasons due to familiarity so having a name like Frederick can go to Ric or Fred or Richard or Dick the locals probably used one or the other depending . Even as Rick Blum the Blum is connected to family we have found

He used the other family names from his past etc to some degree ....Remakel is the odd one out for me at the moment .

 

[centred]

The one on top of this article?
Daughter of missing woman Marion Barter reveals 'something happened' to her mum before she vanished | Daily Mail Online

Thanks so much Caro but i don't think that is it , as it was much clearer and up close because in this one i wouldn't say i would have noted her teeth

 

[Lokii]

Does anyone recall the surname Launey or Launay along the line somewhere?

 

[Lokii]

Can I ask if anyone has ever seen a photo of Marion smiling ?
I have been meaning to bring this up before as I saw ONE in the last few weeks but cannot find it again .

The reason i ask is in all photos of Marion through her life she has her mouth closed .( I have a friend who does this because she has never liked her teeth smile .
When i saw this photo i remember thinking she had a rather unusual set of teeth
Anyone see it ? As she would likely different or more recognizable if you saw her teeth when smiling as her smile was unique ??

One of her wedding photos was taken from the side, she was smiling in it. Her teeth appeared to be straight, she has a pretty smile.

 

[centred]

One of her wedding photos was taken from the side, she was smiling in it. Her teeth appeared to be straight, she has a pretty smile.

well that's odd because i do recall her front top scissor teeth were pointed and sort of looked uneven which i have seen on some people anyway i remember thinking how different she looked compared to all the photos where she is not smiling

 

[Carovb5]

I was searching for his names in and around Luxemburg. I noticed this (issuu.com is my source) company where there’s a Willy Wouters. It’s a common name so that’s not suspicious.

But the woman that works there, her name is Ilde Asscherickx.

I googled her name and… nothing.
Ilde is a very special name. Hilde isn’t.
You guys were talking about him making names a bit different… Would she (or an other victim of his) do so too?

The company is Lanier Luxembourg S.A.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Does anyone recall the surname Launey or Launay along the line somewhere?

The Rodney Lauzoney and Lazoney alias? In the NAA file, the alternate spelling (or handwriting) looked like Launey.

 

[Lokii]

well that's odd because i do recall her front top scissor teeth were pointed and sort of looked uneven which i have seen on some people anyway i remember thinking how different she looked compared to all the photos where she is not smiling

This article has the wedding photo I was thinking of..

Missing mother 'covertly' started new life after changing her name, inquest told

 

[Lokii]

The Rodney Lauzoney and Lazoney alias? In the NAA file, the alternate spelling (or handwriting) looked like Launey.

Thanks

I found some records of a Pierre De Launey or De Launay in Brisbane areas/Tweed Heads area. There was also a Pierre De Launay or Jean-Pierre De Launay who was a French Footballer.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

This article has the wedding photo I was thinking of..

Missing mother 'covertly' started new life after changing her name, inquest told

Also here’s another article of a photo with her mouth open. Teeth are unremarkable. Don’t think it’s worth considering this line of enquiry any further.
Daughter of Marion Barter reveals final memories of her missing mum

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

His birth names were David _Father ...Coppenolle -_Mother

Hence Willy David ( Van Coppenolle )

Maria Coppenolle married Worters

hence Willy Worters

Willy Worters came to Australia 1969

1976 ...Became Frederic De H .

Most of his names he used on his business record as founders .
It figures that he was born to a reasonable well to do or connected family tree including his mothers so a sense of entitlement or expectations to remain or be well heeled .

I am sure you maybe correct about RLW but i don't think it was the main reason

After Marion when he used Remarkle
he uses what the witness from Sydney says as his real Australian name Frederic D Hadevary .

Later on we have found derivatives of RLW and Ritchie Rich .

I can see why he used certain names at certain times and when you think on it he must have been reasonably well know to clubs and social settings in around Ballina Casino Wollonbar and it seems he branched out from there to Byron, Yamba Grafton Nymbodia Lismore , many more places within easy drives and was in the area for quite a few years . I wonder how many people will be coming out of the wood work now , I can only imagine the gossip going on .

Anyway i think certain names were used for one reason and some were used for other obvious reasons due to familiarity so having a name like Frederick can go to Ric or Fred or Richard or Dick the locals probably used one or the other depending . Even as Rick Blum the Blum is connected to family we have found

He used the other family names from his past etc to some degree ....Remakel is the odd one out for me at the moment .

Yes it is the odd one out… but I don’t believe it’s random. Random would be John smith.. lol there’s a connection somewhere (not meaning he can be traced back to real Mr Remakel.. but in some weird way in his mind there is one.
Agree with the Richard, David & Willy comments above. It must be bloody hard remembering what name you are depending on who you’re interacting with.. those names are familiar which is why he’s most likely just reworked them over and over.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

If he is Mr. Pierre H de GAYE, how funny that he has a habit of posing as someone of noble background (de Hedervary).

'de' and 'von' means 'from' and implies the family comes from aristocratic beginnings. Back in the day, you were given a first name and your last name was 'from' where your family was from and had been for centuries - either name of the estate they owned or the region they ruled.

I bet he later also used Degaye as he did Dehedervary.

Or he likes Pierre De Gayette - architect lol

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

Amazing work, websleuthers. (@Estelle today!) Clearly our Con is Thoroughly Bad News. I pray the police can tie him to Marion-- or anybody-- which will force him into a plea deal so he reveals what we all want to know.