Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

[DK007]

The 5 million euro thing is very intriguing. I’m wondering if they actually took advantage of elderly family members such as her uncle. A big speculation on my behalf, but I wonder.

Wouldn’t surprise me if they did.. it almost sounds like they’ve been on the run in an indirect way from when they first meet? IMO DDH writing letters to RB while he was in jail.. just sounds so outrageous… !

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe he got scholarship.

How did they find the money to send David to RMIT University in Melbourne on a pension?

 

[stephbarn]

Yessss lol :/

Me too

 

[mishy66]

When Smith said so you both drive from time to time I think I heard the whole room take a breath lol!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

As mentioned earlier, and according to NAA, the Chusan did depart 10 Jan 1970 and arrive in Sydney 10 March 1970.

Whether they were BOTH actually on that ship is another story. I haven't yet confirmed the port of departure, but so far, her story on this topic checks out. Also keep in mind that they might've named their daughter after this voyage that I suspect at least she was on.

For those asking why the timeline of when they met is so important... it's because many doubt she met him in 1970.

Firstly, it's unusual for 19 year old with choices and her whole life ahead of her, to wait six years for a 31 year old man to get out of jail.

Secondly, WW departed Aus on 15 Feb 1970. How could he be getting on the Chusan on the 10 Jan 1970 in UK? Technically, he was still with wife IK in Australia.

The theory is, they met when he was secretly in Australia in 1974. They can't say they met in 1974 as he hadn't officially entered the country. They can't say they met in 1976 as they just met! And he's trying to hide his history of meeting women, marrying and changing his name (too similar to Marion's case). So, the only answer is to say they met before jail.

Early Jan 1970 – WW and DW meet aboard the Chusan departing Southampton, UK
15 Feb 1970 – WW and IK depart Aus together, divorced (weren't even married a year!)
10 March 1970 – Chusan arrives in Sydney
23 Jun 1971 – WW in prison, France for a long list of charges
21 May 1974 – WW discharged from prison
1974 – Immigration officials suspect WW returned to Aus but no record found
12 Feb 1976 – WW changes name to FDdH
20 Feb 1976 – FDdH marries DW
23 Feb 1976 – FDdH applies for Aus citizenship
25 Mar 1976 – FDdH Aus citizenship granted and Aus passport issued
28 July 1976 – FDdH and DW depart Aus

Please let me know if I got something wrong.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Could this be about the $5 million euros discussed today?
Dated 2010.
Correspondence from Mrs Andree Flamme. Letter with concerns about Australian-born Belgian, Frederick de Hedervary who is wanted by Belgian police.
ArchivesSearch | Queensland State Archives | Queensland Government

 

[Belleandsebastian]

As mentioned earlier, and according to NAA, the Chusan did depart 10 Jan 1970 and arrive in Sydney 10 March 1970.

Whether they were BOTH actually on that ship is another story. I haven't yet confirmed the port of departure, but so far, her story on this topic checks out. Also keep in mind that they might've named their daughter after this voyage that I suspect at least she was on.

For those asking why the timeline of when they met is so important... it's because many doubt she met him in 1970.

Firstly, it's unusual for 19 year old with choices and her whole life ahead of her, to wait six years for a 31 year old man to get out of jail.

Secondly, WW departed Aus on 15 Feb 1970. How could he be getting on the Chusan on the 10 Jan in UK? Technically he was still with wife IK in Australia.

The theory is, they met when he was secretly in Australia in 1974. They can't say they met in 1974 as he hadn't officially entered the country. They can't say they met in 1976 as they just met! So, the only answer is to say they met before jail.

15 Feb 1970 – WW and IK depart Aus together, divorced (weren't even married a year!)
Early Jan 1970 – WW and DW meet aboard the Chusan departing Southampton, UK
10 March 1970 – Chusan arrives in Sydney
23 Jun 1971 – WW in prison, France for a long list of charges
21 May 1974 – WW discharged from prison
1974 – WW suspected to return to Aus but no record found
12 Feb 1976 – WW changes name to FDdH
20 Feb 1976 – FDdH marries DW
23 Feb 1976 – FDdH applies for Aus citizenship
25 Mar 1976 – FDdH Aus citizenship granted and Aus passport issued
28 July 1976 – FDdH and DW depart Aus

Please let me know if I got something wrong.

Someone posted the ship manifest and I couldn’t see either of them on it. Was it the right voyage?

 

[roland625]

Anyone else think from the last round of questions (the figurines, artwork and what was in the garage) that one of the kids has been telling investigators the truth? The questions seemed incredibly pointed. And it seemed like they had info about the interior of the house back in the late 90s.

I thought they might have pictures of the house with Marion's furniture but if they had them I think they would have had to have put them to her for a response.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

So she has been on a pension since her 30’s and he in his 40’s!!!!
What scum. Sorry if I’m being offensive but that is the only word I could think of.

 

[Bibno]

She reminds me of kids at school when they are questioned about something they have obviously done but deny doing.

That is a really good observation.

 

[Willowpea]

I am all for giving people the benefit of the doubt but come on... you know your husband has been *imprisoned* for fraud; you know he's constantly changing his name with no proper explanation why; and you know you're living relatively comfortably (with overseas travel) on apparently a disability pension. But it never occurred to you something shifty might be going on?

At absolute, generous best IMO she didn't ask questions because she knew she didn't want to hear the answers which is no better than being actively aware in my view.

Yeah. While she and her kids have lived a happy life together while Sally has spent most of her adult life searching and wondering for her mother. She is despicable in my generous opinion.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Someone posted the ship manifest and I couldn’t see either of them on it. Was it the right voyage?

Sorry, I didn't say they were on it, but correcting previous posts that the Chusan wasn't operating between Jan-Mar. Lol, the manifest must've been posted while I was writing mine I'll go find it.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I cannot find Chusan coming to Australia in 1969/1970
The P.O. ships I can find that sailed over that period of time are
Canberra
Oriana
Arcadia
Iberia
Orsova
Oronsay

Chusan was much early see pic

 

[mishy66]

As mentioned earlier, and according to NAA, the Chusan did depart 10 Jan 1970 and arrive in Sydney 10 March 1970.

Whether they were BOTH actually on that ship is another story. I haven't yet confirmed the port of departure, but so far, her story on this topic checks out. Also keep in mind that they might've named their daughter after this voyage that I suspect at least she was on.

For those asking why the timeline of when they met is so important... it's because many doubt she met him in 1970.

Firstly, it's unusual for 19 year old with choices and her whole life ahead of her, to wait six years for a 31 year old man to get out of jail.

Secondly, WW departed Aus on 15 Feb 1970. How could he be getting on the Chusan on the 10 Jan in UK? Technically, he was still with wife IK in Australia.

The theory is, they met when he was secretly in Australia in 1974. They can't say they met in 1974 as he hadn't officially entered the country. They can't say they met in 1976 as they just met! And he's trying to hide his history of meeting women, marrying and changing his name (too similar to Marion's case). So, the only answer is to say they met before jail.

15 Feb 1970 – WW and IK depart Aus together, divorced (weren't even married a year!)
Early Jan 1970 – WW and DW meet aboard the Chusan departing Southampton, UK
10 March 1970 – Chusan arrives in Sydney
23 Jun 1971 – WW in prison, France for a long list of charges
21 May 1974 – WW discharged from prison
1974 – WW suspected to return to Aus but no record found
12 Feb 1976 – WW changes name to FDdH
20 Feb 1976 – FDdH marries DW
23 Feb 1976 – FDdH applies for Aus citizenship
25 Mar 1976 – FDdH Aus citizenship granted and Aus passport issued
28 July 1976 – FDdH and DW depart Aus

Please let me know if I got something wrong.

Honestly you are a gem for this info!
I was wondering WHY ( if she was to be believed) it would be that there was a 6 yr gap from when they met to getting married, given his penance for fast marriages.

She was really insistent about the 1970 yr which is why I did believe her. She did travel on that ship coming over,.... but he certainly didnt.
Thank you for clear timelines!

 

[Bibno]

I don't think she's come to peace with it.

I think she's shocked, and depressed and embarrassed.

Agreed. It also occurs to me that she could have been frightened of him for many years. Frightened to ask questions, and frightened of saying the wrong thing.

 

[mishy66]

Could this be about the $5 million euros discussed today?
Dated 2010.
Correspondence from Mrs Andree Flamme. Letter with concerns about Australian-born Belgian, Frederick de Hedervary who is wanted by Belgian police.
ArchivesSearch | Queensland State Archives | Queensland Government

I keep going to this archive but it is restricted. Wondering if this ties up with another of his documents that is the ASIO connection....??

 

[mishy66]

I thought they might have pictures of the house with Marion's furniture but if they had them I think they would have had to have put them to her for a response.

They arent going to lay all their cards down just yet if it goes to trial

 

[Belleandsebastian]

They arent going to lay all their cards down just yet if it goes to trial

Do you think they have searched their house? Would they have enough evidence for a warrant?

 

[roland625]

They arent going to lay all their cards down just yet if it goes to trial

Coroners can withhold evidence in some circumstances (and photos of Marion's stuff at the house would obviously be evidence) but the police don't get to pick and choose what they disclose to the coroner.

 

[mishy66]

Someone posted the ship manifest and I couldn’t see either of them on it. Was it the right voyage?

I dont think that was the correct date - that one posted was Incoming passenger list to Fremantle "Chusan" arrived 17 February 1970