Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #8

[caitlincurious]

Apologies if this has been pointed out already, but I just realised the complaint record from Mrs A. F. says "Australian-born Belgian, Frederick de Hedervary". Assuming Mrs. A.F. is another woman conned by RB, it is interesting if he lied to her about his birthplace. FYI, the document dates to 2010.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I wonder if Mrs AF has something to do with the mysterious move to Wollongbar that keeps being mentioned? I am starting to suspect he stole the title deeds to the house and started living in it.

 

[caitlincurious]

Also - wouldn't the police be able to verify that RB was/was not in the gendarmerie?

I know people are probably tired of me pointing out lines of inquiry - it's more that I don't know how to follow them really myself haha

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Also - wouldn't the police be able to verify that RB was/was not in the gendarmerie?
I know people are probably tired of me pointing out lines of inquiry - it's more that I don't know how to follow them really myself haha

I am certain that Casselden's team, including homicide investigators, are working with several authorities in Aus and overseas to make sure they get everything they need.

I'll also go out on a limb to say they have been putting this case together for a while – far longer that 8 June 2021, when coroner/police first approached RB. Their investigation is exhaustive.

 

[F.Knab]

I realised it is a TAS link but isn't it the same in NSW?

I think there are some differences between the States, but am definitely no expert on inquests! This is first inquest I've ever followed, I didn't even know you could watch them on youtube.

I would just be careful when referring to a different State's website on procedure, likely similar but not exactly the same.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes I have seen before about Mrs A F. but the actual complaint wasn't shown.

Mrs A F made a complaint about Ric Blum - not sure which name she flagged, but her complaint is restricted so we can't see the contents

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks, yes I have seen that before.

For anyone who hasn’t seen it..

 

[caitlincurious]

I am certain that Casselden's team, including homicide investigators, are working with several authorities in Aus and overseas to make sure they get everything they need.

I'll also go out on a limb to say they have been putting this case together for a while – far longer that 8 June 2021, when coroner/police first approached RB. Their investigation is exhaustive.

Yes, and I am happy to see it. Finally.

 

[Estelle]

I have a suspicion he had an affair with Ilona's friend, who they/he was/were living with in Sydney, and that's why they divorced. Then he gaslighted her when he found out she was pregnant with his child by saying the baby was another man's, because he had his residency and she was no longer useful.

However, this is the timeline that has been put together (not by me) but another member here:

ILONA AND WILLY DEPART AUSTRALIA ON THE SAME UT 2506 FLIGHT TO BELGIUM. WILLY WOUTERS HAS NO RE-ENTRY VISA AND CLAIMS HE IS DIVORCED. How could he get a divorce in such a short time?

1970-1 Ilona first child born (daughter EW/ER) in Sydney
1970-02-15 Ilona left Australia on UT2506 from Sydney to Belgium
1970-02-15 Willy Wouters departed Australia without a re-entry visa on UT2506 to Belgium, status Divorced (2)
More convictions in Belgium and France, for fraud, attempted fraud, breach of trust, impersonation. Various short prison sentences in France, the longest 4 years, most to be served concurrently.

IF ILONA HAS A NEW BABY, HOW COULD SHE HAVE MET ANOTHER MAN WITH AN ENGLISH SOUNDING NAME SO QUICKLY TO GET MARRIED AGAIN?

1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid)

IS MICHAEL J REID ONE OF RB'S ALIASES WHICH HE USED TO RE-ENTER AUSTRALIA TO CHANGE HIS NAME FROM WILLY WOUTERS WHO HAD A CRIMINAL RECORD?

1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974

1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 WW sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques in absentia in France.
1972-11-16 Willy Wouters Lille France, 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Willy Wouters Fraud 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentences)

1973 Ilona second child born (son CR) in Hungary?

1974-01 Willy Wouters App Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974-05-21 Willy Wouters discharged from prison.

He may have then re-joined Ilona in Hungary but where he was is unaccounted for. He could have gone back to Australia on a different passport using the name of Michael J Reid in 1974 or 1975

1974-1975?? Willy Wouters must have returned to Australia but no records can be found according to Immigration Dept. Were Ilona and RB ever really married? Has RB has used faked documents twice or did they really marry in Hungary? Has he got any divorce papers?

1976 Ilona arrives in Australia again and goes to St Kilda, Melbourne (implied from death certificate) Was Ilona’s surname Reid then?

1976-02-12 Willy Wouters changes name to FD de Hedervary.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Blum's injuries allegedly sustained in the gendarmerie... I know they left scars on his shins. Given the images I've seen from 1969 until now, and JOs testimony, I also suspect he had a very badly broken nose.

I don't for one second believe he got injured doing something even remotely noble. My take is that as a young man, he scammed the wrong person and coped a hell of a beating. He might've even spent time in hospital. But I think it's more likely someone took a crowbar to his legs and beat his face so hard that his nose almost fell off. He will never admit this of course. That's my theory right now. Subject to change.

 

[Lokii]

There is a social media profile for Mrs A.F. but it doesn’t reveal much.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I wonder if Mrs AF has something to do with the mysterious move to Wollongbar that keeps being mentioned? I am starting to suspect he stole the title deeds to the house and started living in it.

A few times I’ve thought to they have something? Mainly due to the question of why regarding moving

 

[caitlincurious]

Just catching up on today's inquest - Casselden's questioning about RB on the FR ad in Le Courrier Australien is masterful. The way he has RB admit to each feature, and then refutes each one. (approx 2 hr 30 onwards). Very powerful and condemning stuff.

"It was part of the whole thing and the thing was a lie, that's all" says RB.

 

[Estelle]

I wonder if Mrs AF has something to do with the mysterious move to Wollongbar that keeps being mentioned? I am starting to suspect he stole the title deeds to the house and started living in it.

They lived in Wollongbar from late 1996 to late 1997. The Mrs AF document is dated 2010. If it is about Wollongbar, they have taken a long time to catch up with him!

IMO Mrs AF is either employed by the Belgian Immigration Dept, the Belgian Police or it is about his invalid pension.

 

[caitlincurious]

They lived in Wollongbar from late 1996 to late 1997. The Mrs AF document is dated 2010. If it is about Woolongbar, they have taken a long time to catch up with him!

IMO Mrs AF is either employed by the Belgian Immigration Dept, the Belgian Police or it is about his invalid pension.

I politely disagree. Why on earth would Mr. Casselden have asked D. if she knew her, then?

 

[JLZ]

However, this is the timeline that has been put together (not by me) but another member here:

ILONA AND WILLY DEPART AUSTRALIA ON THE SAME UT 2506 FLIGHT TO BELGIUM. WILLY WOUTERS HAS NO RE-ENTRY VISA AND CLAIMS HE IS DIVORCED

1970-1 Ilona first child born (daughter EW/ER) in Sydney
1970-02-15 Ilona left Australia on UT2506 from Sydney to Belgium
1970-02-15 Willy Wouters departed Australia without a re-entry visa on UT2506 to Belgium, status Divorced (2)
More convictions in Belgium and France, for fraud, attempted fraud, breach of trust, impersonation. Various short prison sentences in France, the longest 4 years, most to be served concurrently.

IF ILONA HAS A NEW BABY, HOW COULD SHE HAVE MET ANOTHER MAN WITH AN ENGLISH SOUNDING NAME SO QUICKLY TO GET MARRIED AGAIN?

1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid)

IS MICHAEL J REID ONE OF RB'S ALIASES WHICH HE USED TO RE-ENTER AUSTRALIA TO CHANGE HIS NAME FROM WILLY WOUTERS WHO HAD A CRIMINAL RECORD?

1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974

1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity
1972-01-11 WW sentenced to one month for unsecured cheques in absentia in France.
1972-11-16 Willy Wouters Lille France, 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentence)
1973-01-23 Willy Wouters Fraud 1 years prison (concurrent with previous sentences)

1973 Ilona second child born (son CR) in Hungary?

1974-01 Willy Wouters App Dousai "checks without cover" 1 years prison
1974-05-21 Willy Wouters discharged from prison.

He may have then re-joined Ilona in Hungary but where he was is unaccounted for. He could have gone back to Australia on a different passport using the name of Michael J Reid in 1974 or 1975

1974-1975?? Willy Wouters must have returned to Australia but no records can be found according to Immigration Dept. Were Ilona and RB ever really married? Has RB has used faked documents twice or did they really marry in Hungary? Has he got any divorce papers?

1976 Ilona arrives in Australia again and goes to St Kilda, Melbourne (implied from death certificate) Was Ilona’s surname Reid then?

1976-02-12 Willy Wouters changes name to FD de Hedervary.

And then the vast number of 1976-1977 crimes.

 

[Lokii]

They lived in Wollongbar from late 1996 to late 1997. The Mrs AF document is dated 2010. If it is about Woolongbar, they have taken a long time to catch up with him!

IMO Mrs AF is either employed by the Belgian Immigration Dept, the Belgian Police or it is about his invalid pension.

She looks about his age. Definitely 70+ at least.

 

[Estelle]

Blum's injuries allegedly sustained in the gendarmerie... I know they left scars on his shins. Given the images I've seen from 1969 until now, and JOs testimony, I also suspect he had a very badly broken nose.

I don't for one second believe he got injured doing something even remotely noble. My take is that as a young man, he scammed the wrong person and coped a hell of a beating. He might've even spent time in hospital. But I think it's more likely someone took a crowbar to his legs and beat his face so hard that his nose almost fell off. He will never admit this of course. That's my theory right now. Subject to change.

I agree with you as I am also suspicious but I have not seen anything wrong with his nose. His nose has never been mentioned. So are you just making an assumption otherwise what makes you say that?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I agree with you as I am also suspicious but I have not seen anything wrong with his nose. His nose has never been mentioned. So are you just making an assumption otherwise what makes you say that?

When Casselden asked JO what evidence of injuries she saw on RB, she said obvious scars on shins, a few little scars around body, and a damaged nose.

Image of RB video 3, timestamp 4:35:42

 

[Estelle]

A few times I’ve thought to they have something? Mainly due to the question of why regarding moving

When my mind becomes even more suspicious of RB, I wondered if police could view his move to Wollongbar as evidence of premeditation eg a move from busy Ballina to an isolated town where a removals van wouldn't be noticed for example and other possible motives?