Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[mishy66]

I thought I’d search some arrivals with FDH names he said he had used.
Starting with Bernard Dupont arrived 30th April 1970 on a flight from Noumea to Sydney

the timeline works.. after IK and before Jail

*not saying this is him just searched the name this is the only 1 for this name.

Edit - this person says he is a resident and was out of Oz for 2 months.. timeline works
View digital copy

NICE!!!!

 

[mishy66]

Here is an ad from NYT Sept 1970 (so ad targeting cruisers in US), but must be for cruising dates in 1971. If boat left Southampton in or about Jan 71 arriving in California Feb ‘71, then in Sydney not much later. Returning to UK April ‘71. There are no Chusan passenger records in NAA for ‘71 (so possible just missing). But this could be a trip they took with RB departing in Sydney or possibly in UK. He wasn’t in jail until June ‘71

I dont think they were on any ship together in 1970 or 1971.

 

[mishy66]

were DH's parents born in the UK ? she may have had a UK passport if so

EDIT: It must have been her parents as she was born here.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think there was mentioned on an earlier post about her being from the UK or her parents were?

She was born in Sydney, it is on ancestry and there is a announcement in the paper at the time. Not sure about her parents though.

 

[mishy66]

The 2nd hand white Mitsubishi Magna (Reg PVC096) purchased on the 11 Aug 97 and sold on the 30 Nov 97 is clearly an important part of the investigation. Mrs aka states it was for her daughter (16 years old at the time) to use to drive to work.

Well we know that cant be true coming from him right .
Bought Aug 1997
Sold Nov 1997

 

[mishy66]

She was born in Sydney, it is on ancestry and there is a announcement in the paper at the time. Not sure about her parents though.

Yes I have that. Sorry I tried to amend my post but I botched it ha!

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Just revisiting my theory on the IK and WW link.
I think I must have been in Willy Wonka land thinking this!

ALTHOUGH I do believe he is NOT the real Willy David Wouters. Leaving that for another day.



BUT here is my theory on IK and WW and to me the most logical given IK backstory of displacement.

1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels
1969-05-11 Ilona flys to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters arrives on a three month holiday visa
residence 6 Godbell St, Paddington - same address as IK
5 mths later on 2 October 1969 granted Aust residency – Thanks to IK

January 1970 daughter EW/R is born
1970-02-15 they both leave Australia - Her back to her family and future marriage to MJR and him to continue his criminal dealings. He has gained Aust Residency a great prize in his future plans.

WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.

After he gains residency they leave to go back to Hungary / Belgium. By that stage they have been here for 9 months. She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.

(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)

They split up and IK meets an Australian /Englishman MJR and falls in love.
MJR heads over to Hungary at some point after IK has left and they marry.

EW daughter takes up MJR name- the only father she has known and their 2nd child CR is born in Hungary 1973.

3 years later 1976, they all return to Australia. IK dies the following year 1977 and MJR is left to raise the 2 children.

I think WW has had nothing to do with IK after they both returned overseas in 1970. His plan was completed thanks to her generosity and there is no way a child is going to ruin his future plans.

This is why he had no idea how she died. He never had anything to do with her after 1970.
IMO

This is very possible s as he meets D in 1970 before leaving with IK

 

[KiwiNZ]

Just revisiting my theory on the IK and WW link.
I think I must have been in Willy Wonka land thinking this!

ALTHOUGH I do believe he is NOT the real Willy David Wouters. Leaving that for another day.



BUT here is my theory on IK and WW and to me the most logical given IK backstory of displacement.

1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels
1969-05-11 Ilona flys to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters arrives on a three month holiday visa
residence 6 Godbell St, Paddington - same address as IK
5 mths later on 2 October 1969 granted Aust residency – Thanks to IK

January 1970 daughter EW/R is born
1970-02-15 they both leave Australia - Her back to her family and future marriage to MJR and him to continue his criminal dealings. He has gained Aust Residency a great prize in his future plans.

WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.

After he gains residency they leave to go back to Hungary / Belgium. By that stage they have been here for 9 months. She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.

(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)

They split up and IK meets an Australian /Englishman MJR and falls in love.
MJR heads over to Hungary at some point after IK has left and they marry.

EW daughter takes up MJR name- the only father she has known and their 2nd child CR is born in Hungary 1973.

3 years later 1976, they all return to Australia. IK dies the following year 1977 and MJR is left to raise the 2 children.

I think WW has had nothing to do with IK after they both returned overseas in 1970. His plan was completed thanks to her generosity and there is no way a child is going to ruin his future plans.

This is why he had no idea how she died. He never had anything to do with her after 1970.
IMO

correct me if I am wrong but IK's parents came with her to Australia ?

now I have to go and figure out where I got that info from lol

 

[KiwiNZ]

Just revisiting my theory on the IK and WW link.
I think I must have been in Willy Wonka land thinking this!

ALTHOUGH I do believe he is NOT the real Willy David Wouters. Leaving that for another day.



BUT here is my theory on IK and WW and to me the most logical given IK backstory of displacement.

1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels
1969-05-11 Ilona flys to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters arrives on a three month holiday visa
residence 6 Godbell St, Paddington - same address as IK
5 mths later on 2 October 1969 granted Aust residency – Thanks to IK

January 1970 daughter EW/R is born
1970-02-15 they both leave Australia - Her back to her family and future marriage to MJR and him to continue his criminal dealings. He has gained Aust Residency a great prize in his future plans.

WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.

After he gains residency they leave to go back to Hungary / Belgium. By that stage they have been here for 9 months. She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.

(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)

They split up and IK meets an Australian /Englishman MJR and falls in love.
MJR heads over to Hungary at some point after IK has left and they marry.

EW daughter takes up MJR name- the only father she has known and their 2nd child CR is born in Hungary 1973.

3 years later 1976, they all return to Australia. IK dies the following year 1977 and MJR is left to raise the 2 children.

I think WW has had nothing to do with IK after they both returned overseas in 1970. His plan was completed thanks to her generosity and there is no way a child is going to ruin his future plans.

This is why he had no idea how she died. He never had anything to do with her after 1970.
IMO

I still think it is possible that MJR is RB and the police will know this if he is as they only need to ask the daughter

 

[KiwiNZ]

did anyone else hear on the podcast that Marion's flight went to Japan, not Korea ( Ex Brisbane)

 

[mishy66]

correct me if I am wrong but IK's parents came with her to Australia ?

I still think it is possible that MJR is RB and the police will know this if he is as they only need to ask the daughter

I thought I read here that she didn't make applications for visas for her parents. But I could be wrong, it seems I often am ha!

...Like me believing that IK got swindled like so many other women because he needed something from them. What would she need from him? She already had a safe passage to a new land and possible family connections here.
A promise of marriage to a man she knew was no good and using aliases?
Reid is odd for him to choose given his flamboyancy for surnames..

 

[auntywithflowers]

The 2nd hand white Mitsubishi Magna (Reg PVC096) purchased on the 11 Aug 97 and sold on the 30 Nov 97 is clearly an important part of the investigation. Mrs aka states it was for her daughter (16 years old at the time) to use to drive to work.

Re, the 2nd hand white Mitsubishi Magna (Reg PVC096) purchased on Monday 11 Aug 97 then sold 3mths later on Sunday 30 Nov 97.
He flew into Australia on Thursday 31st July 97, and purchased this vehicle 11 days later. I wonder if the $5,000 daily withdrawals started from when the car was purchased, Monday 11 August 97?

 

[auntywithflowers]

did anyone else hear on the podcast that Marion's flight went to Japan, not Korea ( Ex Brisbane)

Yes, I'm sure I heard that somewhere.

 

[ElaineS]

Hi and welcome. May I ask who it was that asked you to share this info?

The lady vanishes facebook page (from a private message)

 

[ElaineS]

UK joined the EU in the seventies, but it was a very different organization by the nineties. Imo the ferry arrival would have been easier re immigration, but I have no personal experience of that in the nineties.

I thought the Roger Lauzoney ID was a driving licence, because it reminded me of the Remakel licence ID.

From my own experience leaving the Netherlands in 2004 via Ferry to the Uk on an Australian passport - I had to go through an area where my passport had to be shown, anyone who lived any where else that was apart of Eu could just keep walking through customs - I dont know what it would have been like earlier

 

[ElaineS]

Hi and welcome. May I ask who it was that asked you to share this info?

The Lady Vanishes facebook page (private message)

 

[centred]

Re, the 2nd hand white Mitsubishi Magna (Reg PVC096) purchased on Monday 11 Aug 97 then sold 3mths later on Sunday 30 Nov 97.
He flew into Australia on Thursday 31st July 97, and purchased this vehicle 11 days later. I wonder if the $5,000 daily withdrawals started from when the car was purchased, Monday 11 August 97?

I thought this when the car purchase was mentioned , if Marion flew in on the 1st August and stayed in the hotel in Brisbane for a week (as per RB stating he read that in the police brief ) , then this date coincides with Marion leaving the hotel and the car being purchased approx ...

Also I was under the impression MB flew to Japan as well and that is why i thought they had a quickie "fake " ? wedding and "free honeymoon " before flying to this new life and buying the dream overseas ...

 

[gymtonic]

Which card are you referring to with crossed 7s? I don't remember any.

The very first documents around 1969 (incoming card, x-ray report, application for residency) have crossed 7s. The later documents do not.

 

[JLZ]

I thought I read here that she didn't make applications for visas for her parents. But I could be wrong, it seems I often am ha!

...Like me believing that IK got swindled like so many other women because he needed something from them. What would she need from him? She already had a safe passage to a new land and possible family connections here.
A promise of marriage to a man she knew was no good and using aliases?
Reid is odd for him to choose given his flamboyancy for surnames..

Ilona married in May 1969 and gave birth 8 months later. Either conception was immediate and delivery somewhat premature, or she was pregnant when she married. Perhaps she saw an advantage in being married from the start of her new life. MJR could have been a pre-existing attachment who was not ready to marry her, and marrying someone else plus emigrating was the eventually successful ultimatum.

 

[gymtonic]

Just revisiting my theory on the IK and WW link.
I think I must have been in Willy Wonka land thinking this!

ALTHOUGH I do believe he is NOT the real Willy David Wouters. Leaving that for another day.



BUT here is my theory on IK and WW and to me the most logical given IK backstory of displacement.

1969-05-10 alleged marriage date between Ilona Kinczel and Willy Wouters in Brussels
1969-05-11 Ilona flys to Australia
1969-05-24 Willy Wouters arrives on a three month holiday visa
residence 6 Godbell St, Paddington - same address as IK
5 mths later on 2 October 1969 granted Aust residency – Thanks to IK

January 1970 daughter EW/R is born
1970-02-15 they both leave Australia - Her back to her family and future marriage to MJR and him to continue his criminal dealings. He has gained Aust Residency a great prize in his future plans.

WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.

After he gains residency they leave to go back to Hungary / Belgium. By that stage they have been here for 9 months. She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.

(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)

They split up and IK meets an Australian /Englishman MJR and falls in love.
MJR heads over to Hungary at some point after IK has left and they marry.

EW daughter takes up MJR name- the only father she has known and their 2nd child CR is born in Hungary 1973.

3 years later 1976, they all return to Australia. IK dies the following year 1977 and MJR is left to raise the 2 children.

I think WW has had nothing to do with IK after they both returned overseas in 1970. His plan was completed thanks to her generosity and there is no way a child is going to ruin his future plans.

This is why he had no idea how she died. He never had anything to do with her after 1970.
IMO

I like the theory of it not being RB as the first Willy Wouters entering Australia in 1969 because IMO the handwriting looks different on subsequent documents!