Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[mishy66]

It's complicated:

WW received AU citizenship in 1969 on the basis of allegedly marrying Ilona K in 1968.
1970 in Belgium IMO he changed his name to MJReid whether legally or illegally
1970 in Belgium MJRead married Ilona W whether legally or illegally.
Ilona is the same person but she now has a different surname so it could be a different person if not checked.
Ilona has never divorced WW but now she is IRead and already had AU citizenship which passes on to her husband
MJRead is then able to return to Australia as an Australian citizen without alerting authorities.

I like this theory.
But I dont agree with RB being MJR - I cant give evidence of this belief I have except I am sticking with IK being a decent person in this like Marion and his other victims.
He wanted IK for one reason and he got it.
Happy to be proven wrong down the track though!

 

[Itsapuzzle]

can anyone else access IK's file on NAA or has access been restricted

I haven't been able to access IKs today KiwiNZ or De hedervary's, can only see them in tiny thumbnail, can't make them big enough to read! Have they pulled the plug on public access of these files, or just technical problems? Not sure.

 

[mishy66]

can anyone else access IK's file on NAA or has access been restricted

They are still there

 

[KiwiNZ]

I haven't been able to access IKs today KiwiNZ or De hedervary's, can only see them in tiny thumbnail, can't make them big enough to read! Have they pulled the plug on public access of these files, or just technical problems? Not sure.

exactly the same for me .. thumbnails :-(

 

[mishy66]

Hey guys, eye spy has uncovered just what we need. Amazing effort. If this correct, we have proof now, for the first time, that The man of many names has including his* I can't remember anything* , wife, just purged themselves in collaboration together under oath in the coronial inquest

Yes it is excellent isnt it!
And fits with him coming back in after IK! and that maybe my theory about WW and IK is not so daft after all

So is the idea you are getting at that Chusan is the name of the mysterious “yacht” that was mentioned in the inquest? I assumed that the yacht was another “Walter Mitty” moment designed to big-note himself. I mean given the rest of the wackiness of this case, and given that Chusan means boat (Zhou = boat Shan = mountain/hill) in Chinese, maybe there is a yacht with this name that has been owned by RB?!

That is my thinking too!

 

[KiwiNZ]

I like this theory.
But I dont agree with RB being MJR - I cant give evidence of this belief I have except I am sticking with IK being a decent person in this like Marion and his other victims.
He wanted IK for one reason and he got it.
Happy to be proven wrong down the track though!

Reid is a strange last name for someone she met in Belgium, I thought RB may have wanted a English name for Aus ? I wish ER would log on and answer our question lol

If she was on facebook she is not now, her business page is there but not a personal account that I can see

 

[mishy66]

I was just trying to fit Mishy's idea that Ddh and RB could have met in Sydney in 1970 into my timeline. to see if it worked. It's just speculation.

Yes he went to prison after he married too when DdH could have written to him.

Yes meeting each other when IK was pregnant and looking for some action.
Possibly IK was the one working at DW parents cafe, not both of them.
This would be how DW and RB met....

 

[mishy66]

Yes he was in gaol in that earlier period but he also committed crimes 1976-77 for which he was sentenced to imprisonment as I said. It's not quite clear whether he actually served those later terms of imprisonment. I'm inclined to think he did and it was when he claimed to running the family's factory and DdeH was in UK or elsewhere in Europe. But I'm not clear when he was meant to be running the factory; perhaps that was later.

Opps sorry. I thought you were asking when it was DW was writing to him.
My belief is she was writing to him when he first went to prison......

 

[Estelle]

No I said I think she was ALREADY pregnant before arriving in Australia -
"WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.....
...... She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.
(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)"......

They have split up already by the time they both leave for OS - she because she has met another man MJR and he because his work is now done.

I agree that they must have known each other in Belgium in 1968. They could have lived together.
IK tells WW that she is emigrating to Australia and has her paperwork approved.
WW decides that he will follow her to Australia because if he is married to her, he can get AU residency too.
He joins IK in Sydney with a faked marriage certificate from Belgium.
Exactly nine months before their child was born in mid January is mid May 1969 a week before they arrived.
IMO IK could have been pregnant either just before she arrived or just after even in June depending whether the baby was delivered on or before her due date.

What I can't agree with mainly is the fact they they both leave on the same date and the same plane in Feb, 1970. Is that just a coincidence? If you don''t want anything to do with someone again, you wouldn't travel on the same plane to the same place as them, would you? I wouldn't.

 

[mishy66]

He did come back under an alias name. They both lied. They never met on the ship coming to Australia. His lies about seeing her before they ever met, in the hotel was also a lie.. double triple purgery. His wife D, is up to her eyeballs in his scams

YES!!!
This is true. Finally there is a connected.
Fits with my theory too. I just knew IK was not coming back to RB as MJR

 

[centred]

Given the fact that there is evidence of various aliases ,including RB, attached to a company prior, in 1968, before he arrives in Aust and that he has not, by his own admission talked to his brother in over 30 yrs, ( yet both RB and DdeH say he stays with his family and 'cousins' while OS_ ......... I am convinced that his charades started in his time after getting injured in the war ( if he is to believed) and that his newly found fame started with one of the soldiers he fought along side who died OR possibly it was one of the Wouters brothers he fought along side with... ( I think this as he seems very connected to their ancestral coin collection ... imo

If he is speaking of not talking to his brother for 30 years in 2022 then contact might of ceased around 199o 91 92 ......maybe his brother disowned him for misappropriating the family "jewels " so to speak ...he claims many other family ,which is true they were a big family .

he wasn't wounded in any war though , he was wounded when he was in the equivalent similar too our reserve army but it was required by law there .

It was around the time of revolutionary change hence the claimed protest crush

The Coppenolle name is his mothers line ..so yes interesting , I wonder why he thinks his father was DeHadavery .


yes i agree "the charades " started very young .

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I feel like I don't know anything anymore

 

[Belleandsebastian]

Reid is a strange last name for someone she met in Belgium, I thought RB may have wanted a English name for Aus ? I wish ER would log on and answer our question lol

If she was on facebook she is not now, her business page is there but not a personal account that I can see

She is there but not under her full name.

 

[JLZ]

Exactly nine months before their child was born in mid January is mid May 1969 a week before they arrived.

I've counted it several times and I still make it 8 months. 40 weeks or 270 days from 10 May would take it to mid February.

 

[mishy66]

Reid is a strange last name for someone she met in Belgium, I thought RB may have wanted a English name for Aus ? I wish ER would log on and answer our question lol

If she was on facebook she is not now, her business page is there but not a personal account that I can see

I didnt say they met in Belgium

I will post it again here:

1970-02-15 they both leave Australia - Her back to her family and future marriage to MJR and him to continue his criminal dealings. He has gained Aust Residency a great prize in his future plans.

WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.

After he gains residency they leave to go back to Hungary / Belgium. By that stage they have been here for 9 months. She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.

(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)

They have split up already by the time they leave for OS and IK has met an Australian /Englishman MJR and falls in love.
MJR heads over to Hungary at some point after IK has left and they marry.

EW daughter takes up MJR name- the only father she has known and their 2nd child CR is born in Hungary 1973.

3 years later 1976, they all return to Australia. IK dies the following year 1977 and MJR is left to raise the 2 children.

I think WW has had nothing to do with IK after they both returned overseas in 1970. His plan was completed thanks to her generosity and there is no way a child is going to ruin his future plans.

This is why he had no idea how she died. He never had anything to do with her after 1970.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I didnt say they met in Belgium

I will post it again here:

1970-02-15 they both leave Australia - Her back to her family and future marriage to MJR and him to continue his criminal dealings. He has gained Aust Residency a great prize in his future plans.

WW uses IK to gain Aust residency obviously. He swoons her with a new life in Aust.
She is already pregnant when they arrive as her first child is born 9 mths after arrival.

After he gains residency they leave to go back to Hungary / Belgium. By that stage they have been here for 9 months. She by now has realised he is a swindler and wants to go home to be with her family.

(At this point 1970 with IK pregnant, I think he has met DW as I stated a few posts back)

They have split up already by the time they leave for OS and IK has met an Australian /Englishman MJR and falls in love.
MJR heads over to Hungary at some point after IK has left and they marry.

EW daughter takes up MJR name- the only father she has known and their 2nd child CR is born in Hungary 1973.

3 years later 1976, they all return to Australia. IK dies the following year 1977 and MJR is left to raise the 2 children.

I think WW has had nothing to do with IK after they both returned overseas in 1970. His plan was completed thanks to her generosity and there is no way a child is going to ruin his future plans.

This is why he had no idea how she died. He never had anything to do with her after 1970.

I am lost sorry lol

do we have an outgoing passenger card for MJR ?

the one reason I would say MJR was not RB, who raised the children when IK died if MJR wasn't another person, although IK's parent could of but I cant access their file to see when they entered Aus

 

[mishy66]

The Coppenolle name is his mothers line ..so yes interesting , I wonder why he thinks his father was DeHadavery .

yes i agree "the charades " started very young .

On a side not - Yes that lineage goes back some years doesnt it! The person who did that ancestry tree has obviously worked for years at it. There is some 80000 odd people. Kudos to that person.)

He would say he is related to the real Willy Wonker if he thought he could get away with him!
I believe nothing that comes out of his mouth. That has been his life - built on lies.

 

[Estelle]

Yes meeting each other when IK was pregnant and looking for some action.
Possibly IK was the one working at DW parents cafe, not both of them.
This would be how DW and RB met....

None of you will possibly agree with me but my gut feeling is that RB has never been a very sexy guy. I think he's been a money-motivated guy or gold digger. IMO if he thinks he can't use a woman for some extra benefit, he wouldn't be interested.

Possibly IK was the one working at DW parents cafe, not both of them.
How do you think he earned money when he first came to Australia on a holiday visa? Surely you don't believe he would have been a press photographer? He would only be interested in earning cash. He supposedly had his Belgian invalid pension but was it enough to live on here? Then he also had to pay for his flight back to Belgium nine months later. Did he commit fraud here to get money?

Did IK's parents actually come to Australia. I read that someone said they had read they had made an application. So if they were here in Australia, why would IK have gone back to Belgium then? Maybe her parents came when she later returned and when she died, they looked after her two children in Melbourne.

 

[mishy66]

If she was on facebook she is not now, her business page is there but not a personal account that I can see

I cant blame her. It would be so horrible to see your life being picked to pieces thanks to the dealings of an unscrupulous person.

 

[KiwiNZ]

None of you will possibly agree with me but my gut feeling is that RB has never been a very sexy guy. I think he's been a money-motivated guy or gold digger. IMO if he thinks he can't use a woman for some extra benefit, he wouldn't be interested.

Possibly IK was the one working at DW parents cafe, not both of them.
How do you think he earned money when he first came to Australia on a holiday visa? Surely you don't believe he would have been a press photographer? He would only be interested in earning cash. He supposedly had his Belgian invalid pension but was it enough to live on here? Then he also had to pay for his flight back to Belgium nine months later. Did he commit fraud here to get money?

Did IK's parents actually come to Australia. I read that someone said they had read they had made an application. So if they were here in Australia, why would IK have gone back to Belgium then? Maybe her parents came when she later returned and when she died, they looked after her two children in Melbourne.

how many million franc did he say he got compensation for his pulverizing experience ? shouldn't of been short of money (lies of course)

I cant get into IK's parent file but someone did a really good deep dive into them in private message I think and now I cant find it, still looking