Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[mishy66]

What happened in Japan or on Japan airlines?

Between 31 Oct 1993 to 31 July 1997 he regularly flew on Japan airlines. His last Japan airlines flight was 31 July 1997 when he arrived at Eagle Farm Airport, a small airport north of Brisbane. Even though he continued to regularly fly overseas up until 29 March 2012 (his last entry to Australia, hasn't flown o/s since). For reference, his final Japan airlines flight on 31 July 1997 is important because 'Marion' returned to Aus 2 August 1997.

Can we assume someone saw something? Or Someone knows something?

Brisbane airport is by no means small. It is Brisbane's only airport for domestic and international flights.
The only small airport is on the Sunshine Coast which opened 2020.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

One last thing -- apropos of nothing, really, but I believe RB doesn't know who he is. When I listened to the latest inquest episode, he as much as says so. I believe he was born out of wedlock to Marie Coppenole (sp) maybe even from rape, given to an orphanage in which name we don't know, then pulled out and plunked into the Wouters menage and given a Wouters name, while learning he has two half-brothers who were not in orphanage and are named David. Like the ship Chusan, there are some real tent poles in this story on which the entire constructed life of lies are attached. Trick is knowing where and what they are.

All official records-- including Interpol and police records -- regard RB's birthdate and birthplace as facts.

 

[mishy66]

Is there a link to mother’s notice?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Brisbane airport is by no means small. It is Brisbane's only airport for domestic and international flights.
The only small airport is on the Sunshine Coast which opened 2020.

Oh, is Eagle Farm the main airport in Brisbane? Lol, I just used the Wiki description, "Eagle Farm Airport was a small airport". It sounded like they were saying it used to be the original, and then a proper one was built. My mistake

 

[gymtonic]

Inquest day 7 2hrs 05mins in, AC questioning RB why he applied for leave to remain in 1969 as WW but application granted as FDH, even though he could not legally change name in Australia as not yet a resident and did not have citizenship. RB replied he did not go to BDR himself, a lawyer did this. So passport as WW and leave to remain as FDH..forged name change certificate?

Who knows? I always go on what the available evidence (currently NAA docs for me) rather than what he says that serves to confuse!

 

[F.Knab]

I've always thought Diane knows most everything - she was even with him O/S when he was arrested and found with the Aussie passport.

 

[Meligator]

So within 2 years after RB & DH return from overseas her father (age ~75) and mother (age ~67) both die.
I sure would love to know if/when his first two ex-wives died.

 

[mishy66]

One last thing -- apropos of nothing, really, but I believe RB doesn't know who he is. When I listened to the latest inquest episode, he as much as says so. I believe he was born out of wedlock to Marie Coppenole (sp) maybe even from rape, given to an orphanage in which name we don't know, then pulled out and plunked into the Wouters menage and given a Wouters name, while learning he has two half-brothers who were not in orphanage and are named David. Like the ship Chusan, there are some real tent poles in this story on which the entire constructed life of lies are attached. Trick is knowing where and what they are.

All official records-- including Interpol and police records -- regard RB's birthdate and birthplace as facts.

I really like this @MrsEmmaPeel
It is possibly close to the truth yes! He could also be M.Copponelles sisters child I was also thinking as it was common for a child to be passed to another siblings family if the mother died early.

 

[F.Knab]

Basically Eagle Farm airport no longer exists, part of it is buried under a motorway - I don't know why they had docs showing he entered there in 1997. He would have definitely arrived into Brisbane international airport on his JAL flight.

 

[Maddieb]

So within 2 years after RB & DH return from overseas her father (age ~75) and mother (age ~67) both die.
I sure would love to know if/when his first two ex-wives died.

OMG! And DW would’ve inherited the lot! Didn’t she say money went to kids though? Were they even born yet?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Basically Eagle Farm airport no longer exists, part of it is buried under a motorway - I don't know why they had docs showing he entered there in 1997. He would have definitely arrived into Brisbane international airport on his JAL flight.

Very interesting! Could part of the old airport still be used as a hanger or for private flights?
Or is the proper Brisbane airport ever called Eagle Farm?

 

[mishy66]

Agree.
AND this is falling nicely into my theory on the whole case IMO

 

[MrsWattle]

David Fredy was born in 1942. He gives the address as being at Whale Beach but it is actually at Avalon Beach.

ER 59 Dolphin Crescent in 1972
Penney family address. Wonder if he had connection to that address or just stole the address.

 

[gymtonic]

Oh, is Eagle Farm the main airport in Brisbane?
Lol, I just used the Wiki description. It sounded like they were saying it was a small secondary airport. It used to be the original, and then a proper one was built. My mistake

It is a bit confusing because the Brisbane airport site is in the same general location but the Terminals have changed (and thus the name). The separate International Brisbane terminal was built in the late 80s and until that point all passengers, both domestic and international arrived and departed from what is now the domestic terminal which is “down the road” from the 1988 International Airport. When I migrated to Brisbane in the early 80s, I arrived at the Eagle Farm Domestic Terminal (and came and went from there several times until the “new” Terminal” was built. Does that help

 

[Meligator]

What happened in Japan or on Japan airlines?

Between 31 Oct 1993 to 31 July 1997 he regularly flew on Japan airlines. His last Japan airlines flight was 31 July 1997 when he arrived at Eagle Farm Airport, a small airport north of Brisbane. Even though he continued to regularly fly overseas up until 29 March 2012 (his last entry to Australia, hasn't flown o/s since). For reference, his final Japan airlines flight on 31 July 1997 is important because 'Marion' returned to Aus 2 August 1997.

Can we assume someone saw something? Or Someone knows something?

I've been wondering alot about this. It's possible it has nothing to do with Marion per se. Perhaps he was caught/accused of engaging in some kind of theft/fraud while in Japan and decided never to go back. Is he "wanted" in Japan ?

 

[mishy66]

RGW, Diane's father, was born in Australia. His parents were married in Perth WA in 1911, and he was born in Coolgardie WA in 1912. You can find them on the Pioneers Index by searching for their surname - there is no option to link to individual records, nor does it show anything more than is on the index. His parents divorced in 1938 (here, scroll down to Walker v Walker). I found this through searching the mother's full name on Trove and that led me to search in WA.

This is great thank you!

 

[centred]

One last thing -- apropos of nothing, really, but I believe RB doesn't know who he is. When I listened to the latest inquest episode, he as much as says so. I believe he was born out of wedlock to Marie Coppenole (sp) maybe even from rape, given to an orphanage in which name we don't know, then pulled out and plunked into the Wouters menage and given a Wouters name, while learning he has two half-brothers who were not in orphanage and are named David. Like the ship Chusan, there are some real tent poles in this story on which the entire constructed life of lies are attached. Trick is knowing where and what they are.

All official records-- including Interpol and police records -- regard RB's birthdate and birthplace as facts.

Yes, agree, I recalled him saying that and at the time i posted " Adoptees only KNOW what they are told "
Probably means nothing but explains every thing re psychological pathology and possible future behavior.
I might go back and re listen to his acknowledgement re these questions put to him and his acceptance of what was put to him about not knowing who he is and about his "Mother " loosing her legs and the reason why he seemed to believe he was a DeH. Just out of interest.

 

[Littleguy7]

If he has multiple birth certs he could have applied for multiple name changes under each without flagging link between different identities. Probably less requirement for photo ID back then… plus he probably had photo ID as licences anyway.

Agree @Maddieb He must have collected various ID documents in different names. Some of the slight name variations (spellings, nicknames) he might be able to fudge as minor changes/corrections, but completely new names would have required a document trail. Like the FNR stolen OS drivers license used to obtain a QLD driver's license. Is there a Richard Lloyd Westbury (for example) out there who has had ID documents stolen/gone missing or has he forged documents of a fictitious person to create this identity? Same for all the other aliases.

I agree it's more likely he has obtained additional identities than gone through name change processes to amend an existing identity (although there could be a combination of both...).
Eg for his Disability pension, does he have the one identity but with multiple name changes, or has he ceased claiming under one identity and commenced claiming under another identity? Or claiming under multiple identities concurrently?

In any case there's got to have been identity crime activity happening here the police could charge him with. His insistence to DW "its not illegal to change your name" is BS.

Name-change loophole closed

Fraud offences in NSW

 

[Deleted member 249471]

It is a bit confusing because the Brisbane airport site is in the same general location but the Terminals have changed (and thus the name). The separate International Brisbane terminal was built in the late 80s and until that point all passengers, both domestic and international arrived and departed from what is now the domestic terminal which is “down the road” from the 1988 International Airport. When I migrated to Brisbane in the early 80s, I arrived at the Eagle Farm Domestic Terminal (and came and went from there several times until the “new” Terminal” was built. Does that help

Thank you Casselden said immigration records state he arrived in Eagle Farm on Japan airlines. Perhaps they were still calling the whole Brisbane Airport complex 'Eagle Farm' in the late 90s? But later had a rebrand to just 'Brisbane Airport'?

 

[centred]

I really like this @MrsEmmaPeel
It is possibly close to the truth yes! He could also be M.Copponelles sisters child I was also thinking as it was common for a child to be passed to another siblings family if the mother died early.

yes i thought so too but why was he put into an orphanage until age 12 though ?
I can imagine a kid might be a tad put out by being shunned for that long ?
Sometimes i wonder if the whole thing about his aunt , mother , brother , cousins is all fabricated from 12 years old but that doesn't make sense if he has the coins etc from this family .
I am assuming he has some proof he is connected to that family in some way or another ?