Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[Deleted member 249471]

I've been wondering alot about this. It's possible it has nothing to do with Marion per se. Perhaps he was caught/accused of engaging in some kind of theft/fraud while in Japan and decided never to go back. Is he "wanted" in Japan ?

Something is up @Meligator , something is definitely up I hope more is revealed about Japan in April.
For those who are interested, the he typically stayed at hotel Nikko in Narita.

 

[gymtonic]

I don't know, but I've seen a few cards with "British - Australian" and then 'British' is crossed out. I wonder if it is a thing from the times where the commonwealth connection and being a dominion of the British Empire meant people regarded themselves as British Australian?

At the time (from memory only /personal experience…this is how I explained it to someone else once) taking up Australian citizenship and getting an Australian passport meant you had to renounce other citizenships BUT some other countries did recognise you renouncing original citizenship and this included UK so you were always considered British despite Oz citizenship/ passport. Thus dual citizenship. I’ve simplified it a bit here but I could travel out of Oz using my Oz passport and in to UK using my UK passport (thus avoiding arrival queues). I always shied both passports (just in case you think I was doing a RB dodgy!). Also this just reminded me that I used my UK passport to enter DOM TOMS in the Pacific to avoid having to apply for a visa as an Australian. I was once questioned very sternly by passport control in Papeete with “where have you been for 5 years?” When the last departure UK Passport stamp in my UK passport didn’t match”. I pointed out the arrival stamps in the Oz passport. DING! Now that I am relating this, it sounds very, very dodgy! But it was common practice in those days. Maybe this loophole was exploited by RB to his advantage?

 

[mishy66]

Oh, is Eagle Farm the main airport in Brisbane? Lol, I just used the Wiki description, "Eagle Farm Airport was a small airport". It sounded like they were saying it used to be the original, and then a proper one was built. My mistake

Yes Brisbane's 1988 Expo gave the airport its first international flights and its expansion in 1990 onwards.

 

[centred]

I've been wondering alot about this. It's possible it has nothing to do with Marion per se. Perhaps he was caught/accused of engaging in some kind of theft/fraud while in Japan and decided never to go back. Is he "wanted" in Japan ?

yes he said there was "no particular reason " so we know there was and it could be he no longer had access to his airline "customer " connection and benefits from that point so its possible he might have been disenfranchised from this person because the person was probably duped by him as well and he cut him off , or maybe some other sinister reason or he may have been concerned he maybe recognized again because he fake married there and it was risky ..Just an idea

 

[Estelle]

I’ve found the Father's arrival card:
View digital copy
go to page 1099.
Father uses 55 Ololo Avenue address. Looks like he, Diane and his wife all travelled together.

Robert Gordon Walker DoB 24-01-1912

 

[mishy66]

OMG! And DW would’ve inherited the lot! Didn’t she say money went to kids though? Were they even born yet?

She does have a sister and a step brother as shown in the fathers and mothers death notice.

 

[gymtonic]

I'm building myself a spreadsheet on the amazing NAA file. Found several interesting things which I'll post later. But one thing to throw out now. The criminal record obtained by Australian police in 1980 shows no European criminal activities for 1970, 1975, or 1977. It appears those are years he is in UK (or simply not getting caught). So, no doubt, he's committing crimes in UK, but under what name?

LOL, I have also built myself a spreasheet! And also thought to myself those are the dates I would be looking to focus further investigations!
I concur with no offence in 1970, but interestingly he reports his passport stolen in the year.
I concur with no offences in 1975 too.
However in 1977, I have him listed as”Forging signature of Bernard DuPont” as well as false impersonation of BdP IN LONDON at this time. Those are my notes and from memory there was a description which seemed to be to do with false papers for vehicle/ truck with a named registration plate number!

 

[centred]

Brisbane airport is by no means small. It is Brisbane's only airport for domestic and international flights.
The only small airport is on the Sunshine Coast which opened 2020.

And then there is Coolangatta on the border which is used for domestic flights only re Southern OLD entry ?

 

[gymtonic]

Yes that is what happened. It was that very discussion that got me on the WW brothers path.

Me too!

 

[gymtonic]

And then there is Coolangatta on the border which is used for domestic flights only re Southern OLD entry ?

Actually Coolangatta was sometimes used for chartered international flights in the 1980s! You have again reminded me! My father came to visit from the UK on a special charter flight that arrived and departed Coolangatta. I had to drive there to pick him up and drop him off. From my memory the travel agent sourced this route, it was a one off rather than a regular scheduled route and it was full of passengers from the UK.

 

[mishy66]

ER 59 Dolphin Crescent in 1972
Penney family address. Wonder if he had connection to that address or just stole the address.

@MrsWattle this is showing in 1972 yes?

 

[BonnieB]

Agree @Maddieb He must have collected various ID documents in different names. Some of the slight name variations (spellings, nicknames) he might be able to fudge as minor changes/corrections, but completely new names would have required a document trail. Like the FNR stolen OS drivers license used to obtain a QLD driver's license. Is there a Richard Lloyd Westbury (for example) out there who has had ID documents stolen/gone missing or has he forged documents of a fictitious person to create this identity? Same for all the other aliases.

I agree it's more likely he has obtained additional identities than gone through name change processes to amend an existing identity (although there could be a combination of both...).
Eg for his Disability pension, does he have the one identity but with multiple name changes, or has he ceased claiming under one identity and commenced claiming under another identity? Or claiming under multiple identities concurrently?

In any case there's got to have been identity crime activity happening here the police could charge him with. His insistence to DW "its not illegal to change your name" is BS.

Name-change loophole closed

Fraud offences in NSW

Can you just imagine the size of his filing cabinet! IMO DdeH had a full time secretarial job.
Something that's bugging me... The trip on the Chusan was out of character for RB, he preferred plane travel. Did he book that trip because he already knew DW from Europe and was planning to scam her parents or was he about to scam another passenger when he met her by chance? Either way, DW was initially a victim IMO

 

[centred]

OMG! And DW would’ve inherited the lot! Didn’t she say money went to kids though? Were they even born yet?

Family trust ?

 

[caitlincurious]

Hi - here is a personnel list from the gendarmes, from Belgium's archive website for perusal
(Google Translate) "Police archives inventory
federal. Historic service. Folders
personnel and documentation concerning
the gendarmes, 1870-1990"

https://search.arch.be/en/?option=c...d&format=pdf&eadid=BE-A0510_717785_803276_FRE

Haven't been able to find any names related to Wily Wonka yet

 

[mishy66]

yes i thought so too but why was he put into an orphanage until age 12 though ?
I can imagine a kid might be a tad put out by being shunned for that long ?
Sometimes i wonder if the whole thing about his aunt , mother , brother , cousins is all fabricated from 12 years old but that doesn't make sense if he has the coins etc from this family .
I am assuming he has some proof he is connected to that family in some way or another ?

I dont believe anything that comes out of his mouth if it has to do with solely him.

 

[vivienbee]

I've been listening back over DdH's questioning and the conclusion that I've come to (based on the evidence, the way Casselden interviewed her and the questions he didn't ask, her body language and answer patterns, my own experiences, and insights provided by others on the forum - thank you @MrsEmmaPeel) is that the most we can say with a reasonable degree of certainty is that she's lying for her husband.

We don't know why. We don't know whether she's trying not to implicate herself because she's actively involved. We don't know if he's threatened her. We don't know if her children have urged her to protect their father. We don't know if some of her answers are genuine lapses in memory (because dates are seriously not my gig either).

We can speculate, of course, but we can't say for definite that she's involved.

From rewatching and running over scenarios in my own head, I do think she knew his activities were dodgy. She probably, to some degree or another, knew that he was up to his eyeballs in fraud. I think she must have, but this is just my opinion. How much she knew, and to what extent she was involved, is up for debate. It would have been in RB's interests to have her know as little as possible, for both of their sakes. Whether she turned a blind eye to his dealings (which I'm not saying is acceptable, but is certainly not the equivalent of plotting a murder) or helped him in some capacity is unknown.

I don't believe that she knew about the 'lonely hearts' cons, at least not what he was actually doing within their parameters. The only time she demonstrates real emotion in the inquest is when the subject of his affairs is brought up. This seemed genuine to me, amongst a sea of half-truths and wishy washy details. She may have known he was unfaithful, but I don't believe that she knew he was concocting relationship-style scenarios with these women and playing them out, swindler or not.

I may be wrong. There are still elements of the cases (especially Marion's) that make it seem like a woman, or at least an additional party, may have been involved, so who knows. I'm just not 100% convinced that DdH knows what happened to Marion, and we can't state as fact that she's involved with his scams.

 

[Maddieb]

She does have a sister and a step brother as shown in the fathers and mothers death notice.

True….. still. A third may still be a significant windfall… If kids weren’t born yet then she may have lied that inheritance went to them (if I remember correctly). Are these deaths suspicious do you think?

 

[vivienbee]

True….. still. A third may still be a significant windfall… If kids weren’t born yet then she may have lied that inheritance went to them (if I remember correctly). Are these deaths suspicious do you think?

Maybe I misunderstood something but DdH does talk about an inheritance that she received? She said that her inheritance is what basically gave them enough money to survive on alongside their pensions.

 

[gymtonic]

Thank you Casselden said immigration records state he arrived in Eagle Farm on Japan airlines. Perhaps they were still calling the whole Brisbane Airport complex 'Eagle Farm' in the late 90s? But later had a rebrand to just 'Brisbane Airport'?

Yes, I am pretty sure that when I first arrived in 1980s we talked about arriving at Brisbane Eagle Farm and then it was referred to as the "old" airport and the "new" airport and then it just transitioned into just Brisbane Airport with distinctions between the domestic and international terminals!
EDIT: I just found this link which explains it more clearly than I have just done! Airport History - Brisbane Airport

Also....one thing that has occurred to me (dredging my memory again for what USED to happen and what COULD have happened), was that the end point of a flight was a DOMESTIC Airport (e.g Brisbane) but that you cleared passport and customs at the INTERNATIONAL Airport in Sydney, before transferring to a domestic flight (but your international flight number stayed the same). But I am pretty sure I remember also going straight through and clearing passport and customs at the domestic airport in Brisbane after transferring to a domestic flight.

 

[Estelle]

Death notice for RGW from SMH on 21/01/1987 shows children. Interesting they are named as “Anne and Ricky”. More alias names or just family nicknames? also the one for PW from SMH on 5/9/1988 shows “Diane and Ricky”

04/12/1981 – FDdH departs Aus, no apparent re-entry for 6 years (in my timeline)
1986 FdH and DdH returned to Australia
21/01/1987 RGW died aged 79yo
5/09/1988 PW died aged about 67yo

So they didn't have long to wait until DdH inherited the family fortune.