Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[chicken96]

Don Juan—Express Wooer - WEALTHY WOMEN DUPED AND ROBBED LONDON, Saturday. - Truth (Sydney, NSW : 1894 - 1954) - 10 Sep 1933

Another interesting article.

“declared by the police to have at least a dozen names with identity papers to correspond to each”

 

[Carovb5]

I have found another version of the family tree that lists WW as male. Généalogie de Maria COPPENOLLE

Of interest it also shows Maria’s father, so WW’s grandfather served in WW1. So it’s possible WW is telling one of his grandfathers war stories!

On horse (á cheval) so that’s possible his story.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I don’t subscribe but I assume this is him in 1926.

 

[Meligator]

Don Juan—Express Wooer - WEALTHY WOMEN DUPED AND ROBBED LONDON, Saturday. - Truth (Sydney, NSW : 1894 - 1954) - 10 Sep 1933

Another interesting article.

“declared by the police to have at least a dozen names with identity papers to correspond to each”

Maybe Wouter is variant of Wooer lol
Willy Wooer

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Apologise if mentioned before but when Mrs aka is asked if she has ever heard of her husband using the name Fredy David she momentarily delays her answer before saying no in a different more contemptuous tone to the others (day 2 of her evidence at 35:57). Knowing what we know now it’s very telling.

 

[MrsWattle]

What??? She married her brother?? I don't understand this theory at all, please can you provide some further clarification on what you mean?

It's possible she married her brother using her new married name and Australian residency to assist him to migrate to Australia. Ilona Jacqueline Wouters to Michael John Reid in Hungary. She married Quickly.

 

[Maddieb]

It is common to change your surname when you marry but I can’t see why Marion would change her first names…… particularly leaving Marion in there…. I feel she still went by Marion.
I think he made up an excuse to fly separately to hide his Westbury name from Marion during travel, and then convinced Marion to change her name so her initials matched Fernand’s so she could collect a controversial package along the way (airport locker?) or use a flight credit or something in FNRemakel name. Perhaps later marrying was part of the carrot to change her name early…..

 

[CoCo319]

Hi! Brand new member here, but I've been listening to the podcast from the beginning. I'm blown away by all the info you guys have discovered. I didn't realize until a few days ago that I could see the coronial inquest testimony on YouTube. I'm not listening in order, though, because I wanted to hear RB's testimony and I started his wife's now. I'm confused as to why both are adamant that RB didn't give a statement to police in June 2021 despite there being a signed and dated copy of one?? It seems like a stupid thing to deny happening when there is written, documented proof that it did. What am I missing? Can someone please explain why they are denying this?

 

[ruby925]

Hi! Brand new member here, but I've been listening to the podcast from the beginning. I'm blown away by all the info you guys have discovered. I didn't realize until a few days ago that I could see the coronial inquest testimony on YouTube. I'm not listening in order, though, because I wanted to hear RB's testimony and I started his wife's now. I'm confused as to why both are adamant that RB didn't give a statement to police in June 2021 despite there being a signed and dated copy of one?? It seems like a stupid thing to deny happening when there is written, documented proof that it did. What am I missing? Can someone please explain why they are denying this?

My understanding of the June scenario is that RB denied everything, including knowing Marion, the Remakel driving license etc and then went to the station the following day to explain he didn't want to say anything about affairs in front of his wife. By the next interview, he/they have had a chance to realise this was a big mistake...By denying it ever took place, RB cuts off the line of questioning by counsel. MOO of course. Others may have a much better take on this.

 

[mishy66]

WW did say Maria was one of thirteen children and I am counting 13 on that link

Yep there is definitely a 'truth' in what he says but as to whether he really is the child of MC, (Willy or Freddie or Desiree) who really knows.
I have been studying this extensively researched tree by this Genealogist for some time now, and there are threads of his 'story' woven into the people in it but I am unsure if he has used this ancestral lineage in his life tall tale OR if there is a real family connection to him.
I say this because he DOES give small truths in his stories to link himself to the people in his lives.
But I don't believe anything he says if he is talking solely about himself.

 

[mishy66]

My understanding of the June scenario is that RB denied everything, including knowing Marion, the Remakel driving license etc and then went to the station the following day to explain he didn't want to say anything about affairs in front of his wife. By the next interview, he/they have had a chance to realise this was a big mistake...By denying it ever took place, RB cuts off the line of questioning by counsel. MOO of course. Others may have a much better take on this.

Thats my take on it also. He shot himself in the foot with that line

 

[mishy66]

Apologise if mentioned before but when Mrs aka is asked if she has ever heard of her husband using the name Fredy David she momentarily delays her answer before saying no in a different more contemptuous tone to the others (day 2 of her evidence at 35:57). Knowing what we know now it’s very telling.

@Lord Peter Flimsy it was that very pause that led me to believe she DID know him as Fredy David and why I found him so quickly after @Jamaha put their link up.
I am still working on my theory with these two -

 

[vivienbee]

It's possible she married her brother using her new married name and Australian residency to assist him to migrate to Australia. Ilona Jacqueline Wouters to Michael John Reid in Hungary. She married Quickly.

I see where you're coming from but I really cannot imagine this being the case.
Is it possible? Anything is possible. It's possible that Marion is currently living her best life in the Bahamas, sipping margaritas and having a good giggle at WS as we speak. (I HOPE this is the case, btw.) But is it likely?
I think it's more likely that IK married quickly because a) RB's story's have a shred of truth to them and she met someone else, b) their marriage was essentially a sham to get RB residency, or c) she wanted to get the HELL away from RB as fast as possible and felt another relationship would be a good source of protection for her.
I just don't see every single player in this case committing fraud left right and centre just because RB is as slimy as they come. She may have knowingly or unknowingly helped RB get residency in Aus, but I find it unlikely that she's then spinning out and conning the government on her own.

 

[ruby925]

Yep there is definitely a 'truth' in what he says but as to whether he really is the child of MC, (Willy or Freddie or Desiree) who really knows.
I have been studying this extensively researched tree by this Genealogist for some time now, and there are threads of his 'story' woven into the people in it but I am unsure if he has used this ancestral lineage in his life tall tale OR if there is a real family connection to him.
I say this because he DOES give small truths in his stories to link himself to the people in his lives.
But I don't believe anything he says if he is talking solely about himself.

yes, really interested to hear what he has to say about the 1997 episode with Marion.

 

[mishy66]

The sections that I refer to in my post are translations of the Introduction of the document that outline the History of the Gendarmerie (not the locked records). So, if it is the same Emiel Von Copponelle, then yes, RB's relative was head of the Gendarmerie during WW2 when Belgium was occupied by the Germans.

Thanks @gymtonic. I went back and read all the posts this morning with a clearer head and saw you were talking about a post earlier than mine re the Gendarmerie.
Yes Adriaan Emile Van Coppenolle is part of Maria Von Copponelles lineage. I posted up the extensive tree some time back - it is really incredible work by that genealogist!

 

[mishy66]

I think it's more likely that IK married quickly because a) RB's story's have a shred of truth to them and she met someone else, b) their marriage was essentially a sham to get RB residency, or c) she wanted to get the HELL away from RB as fast as possible and felt another relationship would be a good source of protection for her.
I just don't see every single player in this case committing fraud left right and centre just because RB is as slimy as they come. She may have knowingly or unknowingly helped RB get residency in Aus, but I find it unlikely that she's then spinning out and conning the government on her own.

Agree completely. Especially the not everyone connected to him being a fraudster too. We have seen and heard so many cases where this is true. eg Marion and his other victims for a start....

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

It would be very interesting to investigate all of this. It seems more than coincidental don't you think?

def more IMO he’s had a role model if you can call it that

 

[CoCo319]

My understanding of the June scenario is that RB denied everything, including knowing Marion, the Remakel driving license etc and then went to the station the following day to explain he didn't want to say anything about affairs in front of his wife. By the next interview, he/they have had a chance to realise this was a big mistake...By denying it ever took place, RB cuts off the line of questioning by counsel. MOO of course. Others may have a much better take on this.

Thx so much. I guess I just don't understand why he would deny that when he was under oath on the stand. I don't live in Australia, so is lying at a coronial inquest considered perjury? Lying to the police in a statement probably isn't good, but I don't think it's perjury. I understand, though, now why he is denying making a statement in June

 

[vivienbee]

I just don't see every single player in this case committing fraud left right and centre just because RB is as slimy as they come. She may have knowingly or unknowingly helped RB get residency in Aus, but I find it unlikely that she's then spinning out and conning the government on her own.

Not being snarky by the way! The idea of a network/spiderweb of little criminals all hoodwinking the govt just amused me, that's all.

 

[ruby925]

Thx so much. I guess I just don't understand why he would deny that when he was under oath on the stand. I don't live in Australia, so is lying at a coronial inquest considered perjury? Lying to the police in a statement probably isn't good, but I don't think it's perjury. I understand, though, now why he is denying making a statement in June

I am in UK so I don't know Aus law either, but at the inquest RB is a witness. By denying the June statement, he avoided answering questions, but it also meant he lied in court despite proof of the event so he lost credibility as a witness immediately, so 1 - 0 to counsel.