Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #5 *charges*

[Motomike]

I remember reading very early on something about he was having trouble getting a good signal, so set up his radio gear to get a message out, and that it was somewhere further along the valley. But do you reckon from that convo you guys had with him, that he was at his actual campsite when he was on the blower to you?

And was it his plan to leave the next day? Carol told friends she wouldn’t be home until the 28th or 29th - so do you know where they were planning on spending the remaining 8 or 9 days?

Yes BrumbyJack he was in camp when we spoke with him. We did not know that Carol was with him but suspected she was. Carol was never at any of the camps I shared with Russell in the past.
Russell intended to camp at various spots over the next few days while slowly heading back to civilization. Some of the places we spoke of were Talbotville and Olies jump up (on the Dargo river north of Dargo) as places he might camp at. So this still fits with what Carol said about being back home on the 28th or 29th.

 

[Home Among The Gumtrees]

Police have said the portaloo was never used.

I can't believe I'm asking this but: do people use portaloos for number 1 and number 2?

People that have caravans with toilets complain about having to empty the toilet. It's a gross job apparently.

So they tend to use public facilities where possible or wee behind a bush and only use the van toilet for emergency number 2.

I wonder if it's possible that Hill & Clay were asleep but did their night wee behind a bush.

I know nothing about Carol's health, but it's also likely that she may have struggled to squat and then stand again afterwards, so knowing if she was even physically capable of a bush wee would also help work out if how long she had been in the campground.

Thought number 2: wasn't there a drop toilet in the campground? Because - as discussed - emptying a portaloo is so extremely unpleasant, that perhaps Carol and Russell used the campground toilet during daylight, and saved the portaloo for any midnight use?

 

[BrumbyJack]

Well yeah see I would’ve thought that’s what he did too, unhitch, turn around, squeeze past, drag the trailer around and rehitch. Surely he wouldn’t have tried to turn around with it still hitched?? But there’s not much space so it still would’ve taken a bit to turn around even if he did unhitch, and the trailer chains would be clanging turning it around so could’ve made it sound even more of a dogs breakfast.

Funny you mentioned the gunshots, I’ve just been thinking the exact same, I don’t think I’ve read anything about anyone hearing close gunshots. And you’d know, if they were coming from down in the valley with you. Still wouldn’t surprise me if they got into a blue about something though.

I can't understand if his trailer was relatively light, he didn't just take it off turn it around, then reattach? I would do that rather than make a 30 point turn if I was trying to sneak out! It must have been too heavy for one person to do that or he would have. Also, why was the vehicle heard but nothing else - nobody heard any altercation, nobody heard shots, nobody saw the fire? So on the night only the sound of the vehicle was remembered, nothing else? When I have been camping, particularly in quiet valleys, voices - and shots - carry a long way.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I read something earlier that the Magistrates court he appeared in doesn't handle bail matters.

I am surprised GL didn't even apply for bond even though it likely would have been denied. This makes me think he has admitted to this crime (at least his twisted version of events) and told them where to find their bodies. It seems he must know his goose is cooked or he would have at least tried for bail. Curious what anyone else thinks.

 

[Motomike]

I know nothing about Carol's health, but it's also likely that she may have struggled to squat and then stand again afterwards, so knowing if she was even physically capable of a bush wee would also help work out if how long she had been in the campground.

Thought number 2: wasn't there a drop toilet in the campground? Because - as discussed - emptying a portaloo is so extremely unpleasant, that perhaps Carol and Russell used the campground toilet during daylight, and saved the portaloo for any midnight use?

Yes there is a long drop toilet close by to where they camped, but Carol may not have been keen on using it. She was described as "unlikely to go camping" by some of her CWA friends.

 

[Awakening]

I know nothing about Carol's health, but it's also likely that she may have struggled to squat and then stand again afterwards, so knowing if she was even physically capable of a bush wee would also help work out if how long she had been in the campground.

Thought number 2: wasn't there a drop toilet in the campground? Because - as discussed - emptying a portaloo is so extremely unpleasant, that perhaps Carol and Russell used the campground toilet during daylight, and saved the portaloo for any midnight use?

That's another good point. You've just reminded me of something.

When we camped in our caravan amongst other caravanners it was common for people to pee in a bucket during the night and empty the bucket first thing in the morning. Even though there were regular flushing toilets in the toilet block, many didn't like walking to it in the middle of the night in the dark and risk tripping over. Mostly older people who did this but also pregnant women and single women.

 

[Proudnanny]

Just want to say thank you to motomike for being here my thoughts are with you and Russell and carols family very happy that they will finally have justice and some closure hopefully
RIP Russell and Carol

 

[Arboreal]

I know nothing about Carol's health, but it's also likely that she may have struggled to squat and then stand again afterwards, so knowing if she was even physically capable of a bush wee would also help work out if how long she had been in the campground.

Thought number 2: wasn't there a drop toilet in the campground? Because - as discussed - emptying a portaloo is so extremely unpleasant, that perhaps Carol and Russell used the campground toilet during daylight, and saved the portaloo for any midnight use?

My friend, with whom I'm having an animated discussion about this said she saw a 60 minutes or a clip on the The Age site in which a detective takes a reporter to the camp site and points off camera and says "There's a toilet over there". He also says the blue vehicle was seen parked near it at some stage, according to the detective, but seems ot suggest it then moved to another spot as the camp site.

We are trying to work out where the camp site is.

Here are two photos - one a photo from a news chopper (the cross-hairs courtesy of the TV station); the other photo courtesy google.
Brumby Jack - do you know the area?

 

[Arboreal]

Just want to say thank you to motomike for being here my thoughts are with you and Russell and carols family very happy that they will finally have justice and some closure hopefully
RIP Russell and Carol

Totally agree.

 

[Arboreal]

Well yeah see I would’ve thought that’s what he did too, unhitch, turn around, squeeze past, drag the trailer around and rehitch. Surely he wouldn’t have tried to turn around with it still hitched?? But there’s not much space so it still would’ve taken a bit to turn around even if he did unhitch, and the trailer chains would be clanging turning it around so could’ve made it sound even more of a dogs breakfast.

Funny you mentioned the gunshots, I’ve just been thinking the exact same, I don’t think I’ve read anything about anyone hearing close gunshots. And you’d know, if they were coming from down in the valley with you. Still wouldn’t surprise me if they got into a blue about something though.

We've just been discussing both the unhitching question so thanks for raising it. That is a really odd thing. My other (M) friend said that's what he would have done.
As for gunshots, none here have seen any reference to firearms as a cause of death. But the tent fire not being noticed or smelt is very odd.
the other thing is people describe the camp site as "secluded", "private" but the burnt tent/camp was discovered the next day, about 2:00pm, "by a passer by". I assume that he was walking down to the river?

 

[ediethedog]

I thought Australian media didn't publish photos of accused people until they had been tried? I must be wrong.

One of the major Sydney dailies got into deep crap when the early morning edition front page featured a large photo of Ivan Millat unobscured .....and a headline identifying him as the Back packer killer.....this I remember as I bought it on way to work......I wish Id kept the bloody thing.....

 

[ediethedog]

Hence the word "lurid" and the phrase "sneaked away" and many more of that ilk, when referring to Russell and Carol.

I tend to not take as fact anything in the daily mail.

I couldn't agree more Tootsie....their florid prose is quite something....

 

[Kemug]

From the pics in news reports over the past months, it seemed more like RH would be sociable and sit around the campfire for a chat at night, not be fighting over campsites. It looks like he set up near the long drop for convenience (CC to empty the Porta). I can only imagine them inviting GL to have a cuppa at the camp at dusk, not having a punch on. Especially with CC being there, who seems by reports to be a very sociable person.
Edit: RH would likely empty the porta!

Yes, I think that for some campers the chats around the campfire at "happy hour" are quite a big part of the enjoyment of camping, especially for solo travellers. A shame if campers become wary of doing that.

 

[minusfour]

One of the major Sydney dailies got into deep crap when the early morning edition front page featured a large photo of Ivan Millat unobscured .....and a headline identifying him as the Back packer killer.....this I remember as I bought it on way to work......I wish Id kept the bloody thing.....

The ABC news had a drawing of GL, in court yesterday, with his face obscured last night.

 

[Kemug]

This is an interesting read in light of the Russell and Carol + William Tyrrell searches that will be going on:

Dead bodies move while decomposing, a significant find for death investigations - ABC News

This is fascinating!

 

[BrumbyJack]

I don’t know that particular spot, we always camp up near the old homestead site, but afaik their camp was in this spot. Go to google maps and zoom in on the little clearing I’ve circled. But our info on the exact spot comes from the same news images, and also being told they were down near Dry River track, which this spot is.

We are trying to work out where the camp site is.

Here are two photos - one a photo from a news chopper (the cross-hairs courtesy of the TV station); the other photo courtesy google.
Brumby Jack - do you know the area?

 

[Alicia__elizabeth]

Lisa and I

 

[Kemug]

@Kemug here is something you may find interesting. There is a test you can take to see how good you are at reading micro-expressions.

I haven't thoroughly delved into the site, I just wanted to find something that would make sense of your initial responses, as I too felt the same.

I'm guessing in the arenas of business and poker it is a handy skill to have, face-reading.

The Definitive Guide to Reading Facial Microexpressions

"The face and its expressions, also known as microexpressions, are the window to the soul—if you know how to read them. The good news is we can tell a lot about someone by their face."

Thanks OwlHeart, that is fascinating reading!

 

[Kemug]

That’s all I can think that he was so cocky about what he was doing, that he thought the cams aren’t switched on out of season. Except they are, because although their priority is to catch people who haven’t purchased passes during snow season, they’re also used the rest of the year for bushfire (and other disasters) to know who’s in the area.

"Cocky" - that brought back a very old memory for me - in an Agatha Christie novel (no idea which one), Hercule Poirot was asked if he thought that murderers had one thing in common. And his answer was "They are cocky." Interesting.

 

[BrumbyJack]

That’s a pretty special photo to have. I saw some of your posts before they disappeared, I guess before you were verified. I’m glad for you that you found her and had the chance to get to know her. This must bring up lots of stuff for you, I hope your family are supportive. Sorry I’m not good at saying this stuff.

Lisa and I