Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Panda]

Totally agree with you Ramjet. Apologies for the quote without a reply.
No-one that I know of would use a camp stove in a tent. The photos of the burned out tent weren't particularly enlightening though. Most people have a gas type of cooking arrangement when camping. I couldn't see any evidence of this however. Further, gas bottles would explode. I didn't see any evidence of gas bottles, but as mentioned before, the photos weren't very clear.
I also don't think deer hunters, or cannabis crops have anythng to do with their disappearance.
I also think misadventure. The question is, how would you have two people disappearing at the same time, given Mr Hill knew the area and was an experienced camper?

 

[Panda]

Here is a live video of the recent media conference:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=231664508081482

So.. they arrived and have set up camp by Fri evening (20th Mar) just before dark.. confirmed by Russel's scheduled chat on HF... 3.765Mhz Ham freq where comms would be very 'iffy' with huge static and interference / atmospherics etc.
I guess they must have stayed overnight somewhere on the long drive up on the the previous day (Thurs 19th).. not surprising since it is an epic drive all the way from Pakenham to the Howitt Plains and Wonnangatta area. (I have done this many times)
Therefore the incident must have occurred between dusk on the Frid and 2:00PM next day (Sat) when the camp site was observed to be burnt.
Further narrowing it down to several hours before this because the ashes from the fire were cold. (confirmed by a witness)
So it appears that Russel has gone off .. possibly with the drone as it is not confirmed whether it was burnt in the fire... and got himself into trouble.. somewhere.
It seems that the search was restricted due to the logistics of limited resources / accessibility and covid constraints.
Also an assumption made that the two individuals were not likely to venture far due to a lack of interest in bushwalking.
I think this is key to finding them.
The search has .. so far .. just not been comprehensive enough.
My opinion..

Great synopsis Ramjet. Do you know what the weather would have been then?

 

[Panda]

Here is a live video of the recent media conference:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=231664508081482

So.. they arrived and have set up camp by Fri evening (20th Mar) just before dark.. confirmed by Russel's scheduled chat on HF... 3.765Mhz Ham freq where comms would be very 'iffy' with huge static and interference / atmospherics etc.
I guess they must have stayed overnight somewhere on the long drive up on the the previous day (Thurs 19th).. not surprising since it is an epic drive all the way from Pakenham to the Howitt Plains and Wonnangatta area. (I have done this many times)
Therefore the incident must have occurred between dusk on the Frid and 2:00PM next day (Sat) when the camp site was observed to be burnt.
Further narrowing it down to several hours before this because the ashes from the fire were cold. (confirmed by a witness)
So it appears that Russel has gone off .. possibly with the drone as it is not confirmed whether it was burnt in the fire... and got himself into trouble.. somewhere.
It seems that the search was restricted due to the logistics of limited resources / accessibility and covid constraints.
Also an assumption made that the two individuals were not likely to venture far due to a lack of interest in bushwalking.
I think this is key to finding them.
The search has .. so far .. just not been comprehensive enough.
My opinion..

Great synopsis Ramjet. Do you know what the weather would have been then?

The vehicle was *locked* and the keys were *not* found at the site. (video 30:48)
The police "gained access to the car by other means".
<modsnip>
The situation is plainly a missing persons and .. so far.. the search has been unsuccessful.

Sorry Ramjet. Could you elaborate? Which video at 30:48? I didn't recall seeing any video or news footage mentioning the keys were left in the car and were relying on other members. Are you saying the keys weren't left in the car?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Great synopsis Ramjet. Do you know what the weather would have been then?


Sorry Ramjet. Could you elaborate? Which video at 30:48? I didn't recall seeing any video or news footage mentioning the keys were left in the car and were relying on other members. Are you saying the keys weren't left in the car?

Well, yes, obviously. I realise that. My point was that he may have been used to leaving the keys in the car out of habit, as he used to log in the area. Being in the bush on a regular basis, it's not uncommon to leave the keys in the vehicle.

Ramjet pointed out at 30:48 in the video, the officer in charge said the vehicle was locked and keys haven't been found. (I presume the keys are with Hill.)
The Daily Mail reported keys were in the vehicle, misreporting as per usual with the DM.

Nipping it in the bud before we go down the rabbit hole again.

 

[Panda]

Great synopsis Ramjet. Do you know what the weather would have been then?


Sorry Ramjet. Could you elaborate? Which video at 30:48? I didn't recall seeing any video or news footage mentioning the keys were left in the car and were relying on other members. Are you saying the keys weren't left in the car?

Just goes to show that you shouldn't listen to other members without doing your own research. If the keys weren't left in the vehicle, the vehicle was locked and the police had to break into the vehicle, that completely changes the game.

I did wonder about the allegations that the keys were left in the car. Should have looked into it myself, as I didn't remember seeing or reading anything about that aspect in the news. Thanks Ramjet.

 

[Panda]

The fire and keys in ignition does seem suspect. Was there another car or did they arrive together?

No evidence.

 

[Panda]

Yes that is probably the battery he used to power the tent equipment.. maybe just lighting .. but also he could have used such a battery for powering his HF radio gear.
Always safer to not rely on the main car battery for auxiliaries... and it means he could talk on the schedules in the comfort of the tent... no risk of a flat cranking battery.
However it looks to me like this battery may well have caused the fire.. due to the fact that it is so damaged.
It certainly looks like an intense fire.
He may have put the expensive radio equipment back into the car for security before leaving the site. (I can only presume the radio gear was found in the car)
No sign of a vehicle mounted antenna.. so presume he locked it away also.
No sign of any other camp site antenna.
All this points to a very organized and experienced camper and obviously very keen on his remote radio comms.

Yes, but if he was an experienced camper, he would have had two batteries set up in the car. He certainly wouldn't have put one battery in the tent (which are extremely heavy). You always have the main "starter" battery isolated.

 

[Ramjet]

Great to hear from someone who knows the area. I don't personally ascribe to the "charging in the tent" theory. I can't for the life of me understand why an experienced camper and someone who was well set up, would charge a phone or anything else in a tent. Very strange.

What's your view regarding the drone crashing somewhere and them trying to retrieve it? I'd be interested to know your opinion, seeing as you know the area.

I am still thinking that the drone is the key to this mystery.
Yes I am familiar with this area although I have never explored it properly.
It's a very large 'hidden' valley in the middle of the wilderness.
Bryce Gorge at the head of Conglomerate Ck and neighbouring Piemans Falls are magnificent and *very* worthy of capturing on a drone.
If you check the specs on that drone you find that it is capable of reaching the Gorge area from the lower levels of Conglomerate Ck... but only just. (5Km LOS)
Of course you can do all this from the viewing points near the Howitt Plains road at the top of the Gorge.
However that still involves a walk in and it's more comfortable camping down in the valley.
I believe they both got into trouble on the walk up the lower part of Conglomerate Ck.
They might have been looking for a good vantage point for launch.
I believe / assume that there were no other people in the valley at this time.
Therefore any outgoing emergency call (UHF CB) would be useless.
The walk from their car to the mouth of the creek is 3Km along the flat open terrain and would be effortless.
Above the creek the walking becomes very steep and vague.
You can get some idea of the terrain from the video I posted.
I really hope the police will continue the search for them.
Time is running out though because access will soon be impossible due to snow.
This means valuable time lost and less chance of ever finding their remains.
It is very important that this mystery is resolved.
Thanks to all on this forum for your ideas and support.

DJI Mavic Pro 4K Drone Fly More Combo (Platinum)

 

[Ramjet]

Yes, but if he was an experienced camper, he would have had two batteries set up in the car. He certainly wouldn't have put one battery in the tent (which are extremely heavy). You always have the main "starter" battery isolated.

There is definitely a large car battery visible in the tent. (melted)
I agree he would surely have an auxiliary setup .. but may have removed the auxiliary so he could supply power in the tent (lighting etc)

 

[Black-Cat]

There are quite a few huts in the area I guess they’ve been checked?

 

[Ramjet]

No, they wouldn't necessarily remove the keys from the ignition. As I've already mentioned, it's quite common to leave the keys on the vehicle. We leave the keys in the vehicle at our house, in a town. So, camping, yes, the keys are left in the ignition. I'm not saying leaving the keys in the ignition may be an issue in this case. I'm saying, you can't have tunnel vision and presume it's an anomaly to leave the keys in the ignition.

The tent burning down is another matter altogether. It's very rare for a tent to end up in flames. I don't subscribe to the view of the "phone charger" causing the fire, as I've already stated in my previous post. There's something very odd there. Either that, or an amazing coincidence.

Agree .. there is coincidence involved here.
But I think it can be explained without invoking anything sinister.
I have agonized over the alternatives and find them less likely.
It's now known that the car was locked and the keys not present.
Police gained access 'by other means'.
Misinformation makes it extra hard for outsiders.

 

[Ramjet]

There are quite a few huts in the area I guess they’ve been checked?

There are no huts that I am aware of anywhere near the camp site.

 

[Ramjet]

Totally agree with you Ramjet. Apologies for the quote without a reply.
No-one that I know of would use a camp stove in a tent. The photos of the burned out tent weren't particularly enlightening though. Most people have a gas type of cooking arrangement when camping. I couldn't see any evidence of this however. Further, gas bottles would explode. I didn't see any evidence of gas bottles, but as mentioned before, the photos weren't very clear.
I also don't think deer hunters, or cannabis crops have anythng to do with their disappearance.
I also think misadventure. The question is, how would you have two people disappearing at the same time, given Mr Hill knew the area and was an experienced camper?

Yes agree it's not safe but...
What if this was a very substantial tent ?.. and remember Carol is an indoor person who likes cooking.
It's a very intense fire and maybe this points to some cooking gear and maybe some unknown accelerent.
All speculation I know.
But the alternative?

 

[Black-Cat]

Which campsite were they at exactly?

There are no huts that I am aware of anywhere near the camp site.

 

[Ramjet]

Just goes to show that you shouldn't listen to other members without doing your own research. If the keys weren't left in the vehicle, the vehicle was locked and the police had to break into the vehicle, that completely changes the game.

I did wonder about the allegations that the keys were left in the car. Should have looked into it myself, as I didn't remember seeing or reading anything about that aspect in the news. Thanks Ramjet.

I only found this after listening *very* closely .. not impressed with that media conference.

 

[Ramjet]

Ramjet pointed out at 30:48 in the video, the officer in charge said the vehicle was locked and keys haven't been found. (I presume the keys are with Hill.)
The Daily Mail reported keys were in the vehicle, misreporting as per usual with the DM.

Nipping it in the bud before we go down the rabbit hole again.

I always leave the keys on the rear left tyre.. absolutely never carry any excess weight when walking

 

[Ramjet]

Great synopsis Ramjet. Do you know what the weather would have been then?

Perfect weather for a walk.. they timed the trip well.
Just before the bad weather and after the Easter chaos.

 

[Ramjet]

Great synopsis Ramjet. Do you know what the weather would have been then?


Sorry Ramjet. Could you elaborate? Which video at 30:48? I didn't recall seeing any video or news footage mentioning the keys were left in the car and were relying on other members. Are you saying the keys weren't left in the car?

Correct... Listening closely to Det Insp Hammer you will hear him say that entry to the car was gained 'by other means'
ANd I assume that means doors locked including the rear tray.

 

[Black-Cat]

So they were at the Dry River Creek camp at Billabong.

 

[Ramjet]

No evidence.

Totally agree with you Ramjet. Apologies for the quote without a reply.
No-one that I know of would use a camp stove in a tent. The photos of the burned out tent weren't particularly enlightening though. Most people have a gas type of cooking arrangement when camping. I couldn't see any evidence of this however. Further, gas bottles would explode. I didn't see any evidence of gas bottles, but as mentioned before, the photos weren't very clear.
I also don't think deer hunters, or cannabis crops have anythng to do with their disappearance.
I also think misadventure. The question is, how would you have two people disappearing at the same time, given Mr Hill knew the area and was an experienced camper?

Yes it's hard to understand how 2 people could vanish.
But these are elderly folks and Carol especially seems to 'not' fit with the outdoor lifestyle.
Therefore I can imagine the scenario where all these events can be explained.
It's also unusual for the valley to be completely empty of campers at this time of year.
So it really was good timing for the trip if you want to really appreciate the isolation... and that is what the 'gatta' is all about.