Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

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Arboreal said:
I am not sure who made the claim, but the narrative that is often repeated is that Ms Clay was shot first, then Mr Hill was stabbed. As some have noted, this seems like an odd sequence of events. Could the killings have occurred in the other order?
Also, it seems that Ms Clay was killed near Mr Hill's ute - possibly between the ute and the tent. Where was Mr Hill killed?
I'm sure all this will be canvassed in the trial. It does seem also that in the weeks immediately following the killings that a thorough search of the actual site immediately around Mr Hill's ute, was not performed, given that a bullet and bone fragments were later found in the area - where precisely, the police have not said.
I would also like to see a diagram showing where police allege the defendant's vehicle and trailer were parked; i.e. here he set up camp in relation to Mr Hill and Ms clay.
Click to expand...
I would like to see the layout of the entire camp area and locations of "all parties" involved. This includes the accused suspect's camp location, victims as well as any witnesses locations. The location where the bodies were found as well. Just getting a birds eye look at this along with possible time frame movements of each party involved can really be a possible eye opener. As for who was killed first one would think the perp would want to remove the higher threat first being Mr. Hill one would think. The self defense motive as we've all seen in the past can become the last line of defense when physical evidence starts to work against you. I defended myself but decided to torch their camp and haul the bodies to another local and bury them. Then got my backside out of there and after all this got home and decided to switch colors on my ride and I just don't have any use for that trailer anymore as well, sketchy actions to say the least.
 
Double posted above reply, dummy me pardon my puter skills at times.
 
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Motomike said:
Having visited the site both with RH and a number of other "radio" folk before he dissapeared and between the time when RH and CC went missing and GL was charged, I can confirm that RH and CC's camp was set up approx 30 to 40 meters to the north of the "prime location" which is near the fire pit, as evidenced by the scorch mark left by the burnt out tent still being quite visible. The "prime location" has a wide open area good for large groups to camp in , with easy access to the river, south of the fire pit and plenty of relatively level ground to set up tents on etc.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I knew this with the exception of the underlined text. I just wanted to inform people new to the thread why LE thought that someone else had camped nearby.
 
Edvis said:
Looking at this from an outdoorsman, hiker and rustic campsite kinda guy I know most of us head out there to get away from crowds and the confines of everyday life. I've seen folks out there who want space from others if it be spaces between campsites or someone's gadget's they brought along to entertain themselves with, drones as well. Some take this time away from all as I have seen to the point of rage and lashing out. There are times when a disagreement over space or noise can set off an unplanned chain of events and once that line has been crossed the results are tragic. Now panic mode set's in when the perpetrator takes in the gravity of what they have done. Scattered thought's then try to clean up, burn and, hide all meaningful evidence which most of the time leaves a bigger trail then doing nothing at all and just "Getting out of Dodge" as they say.
Click to expand...

I've gone camping most of my life and on a few occasions haven't had the option to camp further away from others. However a disagreement over space and noise is no reason whatsoever to kill someone. GL was the man that had the gun, and it's illegal to have a loaded firearm in your vehicle or in camp.

Motomike, who is a verified friend of Russell said that “Russell would more than likely back away from an altercation. He wouldn’t be happy about it but he was smart enough to know not to "poke the bear" as such in a remote area like that. He didn't suffer fools but he was not an aggressive man”.
 
Arboreal said:
I am not sure who made the claim, but the narrative that is often repeated is that Ms Clay was shot first, then Mr Hill was stabbed. As some have noted, this seems like an odd sequence of events. Could the killings have occurred in the other order?
Also, it seems that Ms Clay was killed near Mr Hill's ute - possibly between the ute and the tent. Where was Mr Hill killed?
I'm sure all this will be canvassed in the trial. It does seem also that in the weeks immediately following the killings that a thorough search of the actual site immediately around Mr Hill's ute, was not performed, given that a bullet and bone fragments were later found in the area - where precisely, the police have not said.
I would also like to see a diagram showing where police allege the defendant's vehicle and trailer were parked; i.e. here he set up camp in relation to Mr Hill and Ms clay.
Click to expand...
Re your first para. - The order of events is all speculation at this point.

Para 2 -
We don't know where RH or CC where was whent he were killed, but the forensics expert, Mr Gellatly told the court that DNA and biological material linked to Ms Clay were found on the canopy of RH’s vehicle.
 
There is a Herald Sun article just released that speaks of some of this morning's testimony. (paraphrased)

From police reconstruction expert Leading Senior Constable Paul Griffiths ....
- tested a scenario where Carol was shot while standing or crouching near the passenger side mirror of the LandCruiser - while Russell and GL (who might have been standing at the bonnet of the car) fought over a gun
- he actually tested 3 scenarios, Carol standing, Carol stooped, Carol crouching behind the passenger side window
- he couldn't rule out any of the scenarios, but thinks it is plausible that Carol was standing, and unlikely that she was crouching
- he couldn't tell the position of the gun when it was fired, and admitted it might have been a dynamic situation where the gun was moving around (perhaps during a struggle)


I am wondering if the passenger side mirror sustained gun shots, because another test that LSC Griffiths did was to see if firing through a side mirror made the bullets deflect. In 13 out of 14 testings, the bullet did not deflect.


Then Missing Person Squad’s Detective Leading Senior Constable Daniel Passingham took the stand ....
- the police made more than 5,000 secret wiretap recordings inside GL's home and car
- 5287 recordings - lasting between one minute and 30 minutes long
- he was listening when GL got in his vehicle to go high-country camping on 22/11/21 (later that day, GL was arrested at his campsite)
- GL called a lawyer for 75 mins from Sale police station after he was arrested
- He asked to speak with his wife, but didn't want to do that until after his police interview.


More to come later, after lead investigator Brett Florence - crime scene reconstruction expert and ballistics expert - has testified this afternoon.

At the end of the hearing, they are expecting GL to plead not guilty.

 
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Magistrate Sonnet granted a suppression order preventing publications of significant pieces of prosecution evidence, after an application by the defence on Friday.

Among that which cannot be reported on are details of GL’s interview with Det Florence and Detective Leading Senior Constable Daniel Passingham, who gave evidence on this morning.

Det Passingham told the court he was called into the investigation to listen to thousands of secret recordings taken inside Lynn's home and vehicle. "There were 5,287 recordings, anything from one minute to 30 minutes long, that I had access to," he told the court.

He was also listening live when he learned GL was on his way back to the high country in November 2021, where he was arrested at Arbuckle Junction.

Court rules for secrecy in camper case
 
TootsieFootsie said:
I did think that the suppression would be granted.

What I was incorrectly thinking was that it was not only for this hearing, but for the trial as well, particularly if it's a jury trial.

It's a relief to me to know that it will be lifted for the actual trial, if any.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me that it may or may not be lifted. Due to the magistrate's comment that seemed to indicate. to me, that there may be a challenge (at Supreme Court level before a trial) of the admissibility of the evidence.

I guess if it is deemed inadmissible at Supreme Court level, we might not ever hear what that evidence was.
 
Detective Leading Senior Constable Daniel Passingham told the court he heard Lynn pondering the alleged murders while driving up to the Wonnangatta Valley shortly before his arrest.

'He expressed (it) while travelling up across the high plains just prior to his arrest on that day between Glenmaggie and Licola,' he told the court.

'In what I had listened to of the accused, he had expressed it as a chapter in life,' Senior Constable Passingham said.

The detective also claimed Lynn had mentioned while driving alone in his vehicle that his 'book had been written'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Secret tapes capture pilot Greg Lynn mumbling about campers's death

Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn described the alleged murders of secret lover campers as another 'chapter in life' before his dramatic arrest in Victoria's high country.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Recordings of an accused missing camper killer’s police interviews will not be made public, with the court finding releasing them could prejudice the case.

The court heard the application relates to two interviews allegedly recorded by police, on July 14, 2020 at Mr Lynn’s Caroline Springs home, and a four-day interview after his arrest in November 2021.

Magistrate Brett Sonnet told the Court that GL’s police statements and recorded interviews could present a “real and substantial risk” to justice if made public before the case ends.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...t/news-story/c8394d8d02d6aa4487b6e34ec54074e9
 
A suppression order is not a ruling on evidence’s admissibility. It is suppression on it being publicised now to ensure a fair trial but I guess it’s admissibility will come into question later, right? I’m not totally sure on this process, if anyone could clarify
 
I am not sure if this has been mentioned before but in that infamous photo is it just me or is the LH side mirror completely missing from Russell’s landcruiser and only the frame remaining? Figure that is cause for the theory that the altercation happened right there (including the splatter). I just hadn’t noticed its absence before.
 
ABC article

www.abc.net.au

Police made thousands of secret recordings of man accused of killing campers in Victoria's High Country

A hearing into the alleged murders of campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay in the Victorian High Country reveals police made more than 5,000 covert recordings of accused man Greg Lynn during their investigation.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Leading Senior Constable Griffiths concluded it was plausible that Ms Clay could have been struck while standing towards the rear of Mr Hill's car, that it was unlikely she was hit while squatting and he "couldn't rule out" that she could have been hit while stooped over.

But under questioning from defence counsel Dermot Dann KC, the ballistics expert was asked whether he could provide enough evidence and information to properly make a judgement.

He was questioned about the testing occurring with the use of the "wrong gun" and a lack of information about where exactly Ms Clay might have been standing.

"The difficulty for you sir, is your testing on the 23rd February had to make a whole lot of assumptions because there were so many variables involved," Mr Dann said.

The hearing is ongoing.
 
In my opinion there is vast discrepancies between the first interview and interview after arrest, it’s potentially why they are gunning to have it suppressed, also would hate for this to be muddied up due to bodgy interview practices.

Plus they must have some reason to be going with the gun wrestle theory then stabbing?

Also did he know he was bugged? Someone speaking aloud to themselves must really be struggling if he was doing that.

Just some of my thoughts
 
www.9news.com.au

Secret campsite recordings before arrest of accused double-murderer

www.9news.com.au www.9news.com.au

According to police, Lynn had conversations with himself at various locations including at home and while camping, including referring to the deaths of Hill and Clay.

Police swooped on Lynn to arrest him after hearing on the car listening device that he was headed back to the high country. He was arrested at an Arbuckle Junction campsite on November 22, 2021.

Hill and Clay's remains were discovered a week later, four days after detectives ended a marathon interview with Lynn ending in him being charged.
 
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