Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[Arboreal]

Accused camper killer makes bid to withhold 'explosive' details

Lawyers for a number of media organisations have challenged the suppression

www.bordermail.com.au

Lead investigator Detective Senior Constable Brett Florence is expected to be cross-examined by Lynn's barrister Dermot Dann when a committal hearing continues in Melbourne Magistrates Court on Monday.

Among the evidence Detective Florence and others are expected to be questioned about are Lynn's formal record of interview - taken over four days between November 22 and 25, 2021.

Magistrate Brett Sonnet questioned what the prejudice was in media waiting until a possible trial to report on the contents of Lynn's police interview.

But Corey Jankie, representing the ABC, said that wasn't the legal test for suppression orders, noting the legal assumption is that all material may be published.

Media reporting of the case demonstrated the substantial public interest in this case, he said.

Sam White, for the Nine Network, added that the law required only the "bare minimum" to be suppressed to prevent prejudice to an accused.

"We say the public has a right to know about the conduct of these proceedings," he said.

I totally understand that the defence and the crown may wish to keep various matters suppressed, in order not the prejudice a fair trial and also to minimise the risk of a mistrial - specifically the jury being "contaminated" by exposure to information not adduced in court. However, the principle of open justice requires that justice is done by the accused and the victims, AND that the public see that it is done, is absolutely crucial. This applies not only to the trial itself but to any committal hearing. People need to see that committals are only made when there is sufficiently strong case and are not used frivolously by police.
At the present time in Australia, and specifically Victoria, the so called "freedom protesters" were alleging the police were misusing their powers to frivolously charge people who are protesting "lock downs" or advocating protests against these public health measures. This is a serious - and false - accusation against police. But many people believed them and confidence in the system was weakened. So, for my two pennies worth, the process during the committal needs to be as open as possible too.
In my experience, juries are very good, in Australia, of placing matters aside and focusing only on the information provided in court.

 

[Arboreal]

SoMething else I’ve wondered about over the years is the Andrew Rule column implying a lack of communication between 2 rural police stations over this issue. (Deadline is the name of his column btw)



I could have sworn that the column actually referenced the person making a 2nd report because he didn’t Think the first police took it seriously enough, But that’s either been edited out or I imagined/conjectured it.

(That white Hilux still confusing me tho. What’s the story there. Is that one of the Parks employees then? Am I wrong or is there another vehicle Kicking around in eye witness statements other than RH’s car and the blue Nissan?)

The article is linked on an old Websleuths thread here
Post in thread 'Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #4 *ARREST*'

Good points, Kath. In respect of the White Ute / HiLux. Police were looking for it but then announced they had found it and the driver and ruled it out. They also said, I recall, that ALL vehicles had been accounted for. So, that meant they knew the person involved in the disappearance of Mr Hill and Ms Clay, was mongst the people they had already spoken to. I can't recall when in the investigation the Police said this.
And I also suspect that in the post investigation review, a few police here and there will have some questions to answer.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't want Australia to turn into a country where secret trials are held.

 

[Arboreal]

Found it. On 05 March, 2021, police said they were looking for a white ute and they had not been able to identify it or speak to the occupants. On 14 March Police were reported to have said that they believed the driver or an owner of a 4WD which was spotted in the area could have been the last person to see Mr Hill and Ms Clay. Det Insp Stamper said there was nothing to suggest the occupants were involved in Mr Hill and Ms Clay's disappearance. By the time of Mr lynn's arrest, the press, specifically the Herald Sun, was reporting that the ute had been ruled out of the investigation. Unfortunately, this is behind a paywall.

 

[JudgeJudi]

You might like to read this hearing and sentence handed down on 21 January, 2022.

"CRIMINAL LAW — Sentence — Manslaughter — Unlawful and dangerous act — Accidental discharge of shotgun

Defendant was 59. Pleaded guilty to manslaughter.
Lodged a report with Gumtree stating he had located his stolen equipment for sale and asked that his advertisement be removed.
Was in possession of a loaded shotgun and discharged one shot.
Admitted he was responsible for the shooting, stating that he thought Mr H was reaching for a weapon during the fight with his co-offenders.
Told police that he didn’t intend to pull the trigger, but that the firearm ‘just went off’.
Charged with …, intentionally causing injury, recklessly causing injury, and unlawful assault.
Admitted to pointing the shotgun at Mr H and denied intention to injure Mr H.
Indicated his willingness to plead guilty to manslaughter at an early stage of the proceeding, and that this, together with his post-offence conduct, were genuine signs of remorse.
Was covertly surveilled by police and was recorded making multiple references to his feelings of guilt.
Despite having lied in his interview about the circumstances in which the firearm was disposed of, he subsequently arranged for it to be retrieved by the police.

Read the Prosecution submissions starting at para. 54.

DPP v Panagiotou [2022] VSC 9 (21 January 2022)

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Melbourne dad learns fate for killing man over Gumtree ad

When Tony Panagiotou’s sons said they were off to retrieve some audio gear they thought had been stolen, he grabbed a shotgun and joined them.

7news.com.au

Panagiotou on Friday faced Victoria’s Supreme Court, where he was jailed for a total of nine years after pleading guilty to the manslaughter of Duane Hutchings, whom he shot once in the head at the Oakleigh East residence in February 2019.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/gregory-lynn-how-police-zeroed-in-on-accused-high-country-killer/news-story/09a533f05af8bf254d97f05ebc4a3c3d

The committal hearing will continue on Monday, with three witnesses due to give evidence – ballistics expert Paul Griffiths, officer Daniel Passingham, and Sergeant Brett Florence, who charged Mr Lynn.

 

[ScottToorak]

Prior to GL being charged we heard a lot from the media about a person who was referred to as "button man". Does button man exist or was this one of the many creations by police to help flush out the facts behind GL's alleged involvement in this matter?.
I know one thing this case is very confusing and the second thing I know is I will not believe Police again when they start with thier stories in the media aimed at getting assistance from the public.

 

[Kemug]

Lawyers for the man accused of killing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay are fighting to keep his police interviews a secret from the public, fearing “explosive” information contained in the recordings could have a detrimental impact on any upcoming trial.

Depends what you mean by "detrimental". If it's detrimental to a cold-blooded murderer, I'm all for it.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

No matter how much we may dislike someone charged with a crime, they have not yet been found guilty and are entitled to have a fair trial.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Potentially "explosive" evidence against GL could be hidden from the public after a challenge by his legal team. They argue that
key details in the prosecution case should be withheld, including including everything he said to police after his arrest as it could pose a real and substantial risk of prejudice to the proper administration of justice.

Lead investigator Brett Florence is expected to be cross-examined by Dermot Dann on Monday. Florence and others are expected to be questioned about GL's formal record of interview taken in November 2021.

GL's team also want a statement made by him in July 2020 and an hour-long recording of a conversation with police that same day kept under wraps. Dan said, "The contents of these items of evidence are explosive, or may be seen as explosive in the eyes of readers or viewers," referring to the potential for sensational reporting.

Lawyers for a number of media organisations challenged the suppression, which was not opposed by prosecutor Dickie. The Magistrate questioned what the prejudice was in media waiting until a possible trial to report on the contents of the police interview.

Corey Jankie, for the ABC, said that wasn't the legal test for suppression orders, noting the legal assumption is that all material may be published. He said that media reporting demonstrated substantial public interest in this case.

Sam White for the Nine Network, said that the law only required the "bare minimum" to be suppressed to prevent prejudice to an accused. "We say the public has a right to know about the conduct of these proceedings".

But Dann argued it would be impossible to disentangle potentially prejudicial parts of the interview from more benign aspects, having regard to the length of the interview, and the approaches to the right to silence and to GL's legal advice.

The magistrate will hand down his decision on Monday.

Bid for secrecy

 

[JudgeJudi]

“We know they got here quite late in the day … One thing that’s always confused us a little bit is this campsite, where we’re standing now, is the prime position. Easy access to the water, there’s a little campfire already set up... so, we’re thinking, why would Russell park there and not come here? One thing that’s always occurred to us is there could have been somebody else here at the same time.”

‘There could have been somebody else’: New clues in mystery of missing campers

 

[Bats]

I totally understand that the defence and the crown may wish to keep various matters suppressed, in order not the prejudice a fair trial and also to minimise the risk of a mistrial - specifically the jury being "contaminated" by exposure to information not adduced in court. However, the principle of open justice requires that justice is done by the accused and the victims, AND that the public see that it is done, is absolutely crucial. This applies not only to the trial itself but to any committal hearing. People need to see that committals are only made when there is sufficiently strong case and are not used frivolously by police.
At the present time in Australia, and specifically Victoria, the so called "freedom protesters" were alleging the police were misusing their powers to frivolously charge people who are protesting "lock downs" or advocating protests against these public health measures. This is a serious - and false - accusation against police. But many people believed them and confidence in the system was weakened. So, for my two pennies worth, the process during the committal needs to be as open as possible too.
In my experience, juries are very good, in Australia, of placing matters aside and focusing only on the information provided in court.

For me, if that’s the system then that's the system. Judges, magistrates, jurors etc all represent the public. If certain evidence needs to be kept from the general public then i don't have a problem with that.

 

[Edvis]

Looking at this from an outdoorsman, hiker and rustic campsite kinda guy I know most of us head out there to get away from crowds and the confines of everyday life. I've seen folks out there who want space from others if it be spaces between campsites or someone's gadget's they brought along to entertain themselves with, drones as well. Some take this time away from all as I have seen to the point of rage and lashing out. There are times when a disagreement over space or noise can set off an unplanned chain of events and once that line has been crossed the results are tragic. Now panic mode set's in when the perpetrator takes in the gravity of what they have done. Scattered thought's then try to clean up, burn and, hide all meaningful evidence which most of the time leaves a bigger trail then doing nothing at all and just "Getting out of Dodge" as they say.

 

[Motomike]

“We know they got here quite late in the day … One thing that’s always confused us a little bit is this campsite, where we’re standing now, is the prime position. Easy access to the water, there’s a little campfire already set up... so, we’re thinking, why would Russell park there and not come here? One thing that’s always occurred to us is there could have been somebody else here at the same time.”

‘There could have been somebody else’: New clues in mystery of missing campers

Having visited the site both with RH and a number of other "radio" folk before he dissapeared and between the time when RH and CC went missing and GL was charged, I can confirm that RH and CC's camp was set up approx 30 to 40 meters to the north of the "prime location" which is near the fire pit, as evidenced by the scorch mark left by the burnt out tent still being quite visible. The "prime location" has a wide open area good for large groups to camp in , with easy access to the river, south of the fire pit and plenty of relatively level ground to set up tents on etc.

 

[SouthAussie]

Defence lawyers push to keep Greg Lynn’s ‘explosive’ police interviews a secret

Lawyers fear “explosive” information contained in police interviews with Greg Lynn – the former Jetstar pilot accused of killing campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay – could have a detrimental impact on any upcoming trial.

www.theage.com.au

Four lawyers representing numerous media outlets opposed the application on Friday, arguing any “blanket order” suppressing the publication of the contents of two entire interviews was excessive.

The matter is due to return to court on Monday, when witnesses – including leading police investigator Brett Florence and a ballistics expert – are scheduled to give evidence.



Might be behind a paywall

It sounds, from this article, as if the magistrate is concerned about "the possibility that any reporting of the police interview material, which could later be ruled inadmissible ahead of a Supreme Court trial, risked delaying a trial".

So it seems that it is not only the lawyers and prosecutor who are concerned. The magistrate is also concerned.

Presumably, the magistrate knows what this potentially inadmissible evidence could be, and hopefully will suppress just those areas of concern until the Supreme Court can review them.

 

[Puggo]

Prior to GL being charged we heard a lot from the media about a person who was referred to as "button man". Does button man exist or was this one of the many creations by police to help flush out the facts behind GL's alleged involvement in this matter?.
I know one thing this case is very confusing and the second thing I know is I will not believe Police again when they start with thier stories in the media aimed at getting assistance from the public.

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery

It's not unusual for people to get lost in Victoria's remote and rugged High Country — but it is strange for them to remain missing. That's why the past year has left police and locals baffled.

www.abc.net.au

This article refers to 3 individuals the abc spoke to who verified the "Button Man's" existence.

Also, I haven't found the abc article, but I do recall it being reported by the abc that police had made contact with and asked him for any leads with regards to RH&CC and the other cases in the area.

However, I do find it interesting possibility that an elusive bushman is put into public discourse by investigators to sow anxiety in an alleged perpetrators mind that maybe there was a witness out there. MOO.

 

[Edvis]

The alleged repainting of Mr. Lynn's vehicle and the trailer he used vanishing waves some bright red flags as well. When you're on the radar of the Police and decide to do these things more often then not attracts more attention. Explanation... I just got bored with the old color?.

 

[Arboreal]

I am not sure who made the claim, but the narrative that is often repeated is that Ms Clay was shot first, then Mr Hill was stabbed. As some have noted, this seems like an odd sequence of events. Could the killings have occurred in the other order?
Also, it seems that Ms Clay was killed near Mr Hill's ute - possibly between the ute and the tent. Where was Mr Hill killed?
I'm sure all this will be canvassed in the trial. It does seem also that in the weeks immediately following the killings that a thorough search of the actual site immediately around Mr Hill's ute, was not performed, given that a bullet and bone fragments were later found in the area - where precisely, the police have not said.
I would also like to see a diagram showing where police allege the defendant's vehicle and trailer were parked; i.e. here he set up camp in relation to Mr Hill and Ms clay.

 

[Arboreal]

From the Guardian - 10:26AM, 23 January, 2023: [This is taken from the Guardian's rolling news feed]

Judge grants suppression order for man charged with murder of campers
Nino Bucci
Magistrate Brett Sonnet has agreed to grant a suppression order in the matter of Greg Lynn, a former airline pilot charged with the murder of two elderly campers.

Lawyers for Lynn applied for the order last week, arguing that the disclosure of police statements and interviews given by Lynn could prejudice further court matters.

The publication of the whole or part of any material gained during a covert recording of Lynn taken by police on 14 July 2020, a statement given that same day, and a police interview between 22 and 25 November 2021 is suppressed until the commencement of any jury trial, Sonnet ruled on Monday morning.