GUILTY Australia - Stephanie Scott, 26, Leeton, NSW, 5 April 2015 - #3

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.aane.org/asperger_resou...aneous/as_in_the_criminal_justice_system.html

Sentencing Considerations

..........................

If an individual with AS is taken into custody, alert jail authorities. This person may be at risk in the general jail population. For short-term custody, consider segregation, monitoring, and a professional medical and development evaluation. Incarceration will be fraught with risk for the person and anyone in contact with him or her. The direct manner, offbeat behaviors, and other characteristics of the person with AS may be read by other inmates as an invitation to exploit and control. Corrections professionals may see a rude, incorrigible person. Good behavior privileges will be hard to earn. Corrections professionals who work with the incarcerated AS population will benefit greatly from a comprehensive training— or at the least a good briefing—and access to ongoing assistance from a professional who is familiar with AS. ..........................

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Nothing new but for rembering the date:

http://www.areanews.com.au/story/3516796/murder-case-put-back-to-february/

The family of murdered Leeton school teacher Stephanie Scott sat in stony-faced silence in Griffith Court House on Wednesday morning as they heard the case had been adjourned to February 25.

Vincent had been charged with Miss Scott’s murder, as well as aggravated sexual assault.

Marcus was charged in June with being an accessory to murder after he allegedly received a number of items in the post connected to the death.

 

[Fuskier]

FYI
http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/s...or-stephanie-scott-case-leads-to-delay/?cs=12

The case had been adjourned to February 25, 2016.

:waiting:

 

[Trooper]

just to keep in mind.... the Asperger 'diagnosis' was first floated way back when someone from the DailyTelegraph rang around the town they used to live in , in Holland.. a village , really.. and found someone willing to talk. .. This person claimed to be a neighbour, an employer, a tutor of Victor.

No name, no background, and since then, nothing further to add. . certainly, the diagnosis has not been referred to here in Australia at any point in time, as a working proposition...

I am not saying he isn't a sufferer of Aspergers, or Autism. .. simply that it hasn't been in any way confirmed or registered as such.. He could just be a murderous sulker. . they exist in every community.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

just to keep in mind.... the Asperger 'diagnosis' was first floated way back when someone from the DailyTelegraph rang around the town they used to live in , in Holland.. a village , really.. and found someone willing to talk. .. This person claimed to be a neighbour, an employer, a tutor of Victor.

No name, no background, and since then, nothing further to add. . certainly, the diagnosis has not been referred to here in Australia at any point in time, as a working proposition...

I am not saying he isn't a sufferer of Aspergers, or Autism. .. simply that it hasn't been in any way confirmed or registered as such.. He could just be a murderous sulker. . they exist in every community.

A relative claimed Stanford was autistic and barely spoke or maintained eye contact.

"Vincent was always strange," an unidentified friend told the Daily Mail Australia. "He would lose his temper and start throwing things around in the classroom," he said. "It wasn't easy for him to learn stuff and he would get angry if he couldn't do something."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/stephanie...is-teacher-20150415-1mllod.html#ixzz40JWJp2CQ
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

A relative who lives in the Netherlands claimed Stanford was autistic.
'Vincent had lots of jobs as a cleaner, and as a mariner on a cargo ship. But he's not all there. He's autistic. It runs in our family,' he said.
'It's not just a guess. When I visited Vincent did not speak or make eye contact. he was completely in his own world.
'He can only do a job if someone is guiding him and helping him and telling him exactly what to do.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ne-poker-week-teacher-dead.html#ixzz40JXqr3NK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Trooper]

A relative claimed Stanford was autistic and barely spoke or maintained eye contact.

"Vincent was always strange," an unidentified friend told the Daily Mail Australia. "He would lose his temper and start throwing things around in the classroom," he said. "It wasn't easy for him to learn stuff and he would get angry if he couldn't do something."


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/stephanie...is-teacher-20150415-1mllod.html#ixzz40JWJp2CQ
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

A relative who lives in the Netherlands claimed Stanford was autistic.
'Vincent had lots of jobs as a cleaner, and as a mariner on a cargo ship. But he's not all there. He's autistic. It runs in our family,' he said.
'It's not just a guess. When I visited Vincent did not speak or make eye contact. he was completely in his own world.
'He can only do a job if someone is guiding him and helping him and telling him exactly what to do.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ne-poker-week-teacher-dead.html#ixzz40JXqr3NK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

and again ,, this relative isn't named, and isn't, as far as is known, a doctor, so it is anecdotal... nothing wrong with that, but my distancing from this 'diagnosis' is that he has been currently held in an ordinary rural prison cell, and this is not the usual treatment of someone suffering from anything on the Autistic and/or Aspergers spectrum..

He would have been transferred to a specialist hospital, if he was affected with this illness.. . It is hard for me to imagine that being as is stated, Aspergers, and/or Autistic, he is able to be held in the area he is currently, even with his twin brother present, ( which in itself is odd as the mother wouldn't let the other twin in the same house as Vincent, ( according to Marcus ) ...

But it isn't relevant in so far is it is only differing opinions at this point ..... this week the trial begins, or is it just the plea statement? I am not sure.. but if he is living under the condition of Aspergers/Autism it will, or should be , mentioned at this hearing.

Because his mental condition, if so affected will have tremendous bearing on whether he can conduct himself at trial and , more importantly, instruct his barrister as to the elements of his defence. If he is adjudged unable to do that, then this whole thing moves up and into a another sphere of the criminal justice operation, and so does Vincent. He moves into a different area of confinement and treatment.

 

[Fuskier]

Most of it is speculation at this stage, however, 'where there is smoke...'

:waiting:

5 days to go.

 

[Fuskier]

FYI
https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....22filters%22%3A%7B%22date%22%3A%22This%20week

GRIFFITH Criminal Lists 25/02/2016

25 Feb 9:30 am 2015/00104505 R v VINCENT STANFORD Criminal Local Court Mention (Police) Griffith Unassigned -


25 Feb 9.30 am 2015/00167544 R v STANFORD, MARCUS Criminal Local Court Mention(police) Griffith Unassigned -

 

[Fuskier]

:bump:

Some helpful excerpts from the following legal info:

http://nswcourts.com.au/articles/wha...ge-court-case/
2. Mention
At the mention a person charged with a criminal offence can plead guilty or not guilty or ask for an adjournment to seek legal advice.
If the person charged pleads not guilty at the mention, the case will normally be adjourned for another mention in 6 weeks to enable police to serve all of their statements and other evidence against the charged.
If a person charged pleads ‘not guilty’ to a serious charge, it will ultimately reach a ‘committal hearing’...

http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/cri...district-court
DISTRICT COURT MENTIONS
Generally, a person charged does not receive a hearing date at Mention until the defence and the crown are ready to run a hearing.
At one of the court mentions, before a trial date is set, the accused will be arraigned: the court will read out the indictments (this includes information about the offences) for each offence and the accused will be asked whether they plead guilty or not guilty...
If the accused pleads 'not guilty' the accused will then be committed to trial and a trial date set.

 

[Trooper]

FYI
https://onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw....22filters%22%3A%7B%22date%22%3A%22This%20week

GRIFFITH Criminal Lists 25/02/2016

25 Feb 9:30 am 2015/00104505 R v VINCENT STANFORD Criminal Local Court Mention (Police) Griffith Unassigned -


25 Feb 9.30 am 2015/00167544 R v STANFORD, MARCUS Criminal Local Court Mention(police) Griffith Unassigned -

So it seems neither of them has been moved from Griffith...... Griffith and Wangaratta ( Karen Chectuti) have about the same number of residents, around 17,000 ... not a small town, but not big, either... Griffith , I think, isn't on the NSW circuit for Supreme Court matters, ( unlike Wang, which is on the Vic Supreme court circuit ) so if this thing goes along to plan , they both get moved to Sydney, OR Wagga.. neither is automatic, it depends entirely on the court calendar as to which place they will be eventually tried...

Wagga is a bit of a leap too far for me for this year, although it is quite bearable in the winter, in fact, it's rather lovely... but I am hoping for Sydney.... . anyone here in Wagga?? who might go?

Of course, if they both plead guilty it's all bets off.

 

[Trooper]

Neither have entered pleas to their charges.

Crown solicitor Virginia Morgan told the Griffith Local Court that the brief of evidence had now been served and the case was ready to move to committal stage.

Magistrate Catherine Thompson agreed and told the court, "I think we need to move it forward."

The twins did not appear on screen during a short hearing in court today and the case was listed for committal on March 31.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-...ins-vincent-and-marcus-stanford-court/7198084

No further ahead.. don't know if he is sane enough to conduct his case and instruct his barrister. He being Vincent. Marcus is still attached to Vincent in the process of the accusation, doesn't seem to be any information in regard to him being tried separately for his charge of accessory , I presume accessory after the fact, and not before, there has been no mention of that . Seems like it's back to Griffith March 31.

 

[Trooper]

No information if their non-appearance from the cells was a technical malfunction or a chosen response.. ... its all a bit mysterious, considering the seriousness of the crimes both of them are charged with.. from this ABC report, only the Crown Solicitor and the Crown Magistrate speak. No mention, or remark from either Markus or Vincent's barrister.

More correctly, barristers, because I think it highly unlikely they would have the same one for both, each would , by now have their own.. there will be conflict between their stories, in regard to each others knowledge of the others participation.

.... I don't know what's going on, really.

oh well. .

 

[Fuskier]

Thanks for the update Trooper. Was busy this morning.

FYI
http://www.irrigator.com.au/story/3751066/hearing-date-set-for-brothers/?cs=1524

Committal hearing for Vincent and Marcus Stanford set for March 31
Feb. 25, 2016, 11 a.m.

"...Magistrate Kate Thompson refused a request from the brothers' solicitor Mr David Davidge for extra time and set the hearing date for March 31.
Mr Davidge asked for more time to obtain a doctor’s report, but Magistrate Thompson said she had already allowed the defence extra time..."

 

[Trooper]

Thanks for the update Trooper. Was busy this morning.

FYI
http://www.irrigator.com.au/story/3751066/hearing-date-set-for-brothers/?cs=1524

Committal hearing for Vincent and Marcus Stanford set for March 31
Feb. 25, 2016, 11 a.m.

"...Magistrate Kate Thompson refused a request from the brothers' solicitor Mr David Davidge for extra time and set the hearing date for March 31.
Mr Davidge asked for more time to obtain a doctor’s report, but Magistrate Thompson said she had already allowed the defence extra time..."

Thanks for this one, Fuskier.. at least the mystery of the missing barrister is solved, but how very odd, that he is referred to as the 'brother's solicitor.. '.... this implies two things, they haven't been assigned a barrister, odd , and one solicitor is acting for both, odder still, because their crimes individually are conflicting.

I suppose one is left to conclude this missing 'doctors report' is alluding to Vincent's mental capacities.... ? and/or stuff from the Netherlands?.. or some examination done in Griffith? by whom? Psychiatrist, psychologist, neurologist.. . ( you'd be lucky to get any one of those in Griffith).. none of it makes a whole lot of sense.

Patience.. I don't have a lot of it , these days.. . I cannot imagine what this must be like for Stephanie's mother and father, and the fiancée.. . hideous and extreme.

 

[Fuskier]

Agree Trooper. Very frustrating, unsettling time for family and fiance. The only good thing today was Magistrate Thompson's decision to move it forward.

 

[Fuskier]

Some helpful legal information:

Vincent and Marcus Stanford have been charged with a serious offence which yesterday was set down for a Commital Hearing on March 31, 2016. Neither defendant entered a plea.
A committal is a hearing in the Local Court before the charge is heard in the District Court or Supreme Court.

In the Committal Hearing, the Magistrate decides whether the prosecution has enough evidence for the case to be committed for trial, or sentence. If there is enough evidence and the case is serious enough, the case will be decided by a Judge and a jury in the District or Supreme Court.

If the defendant pleads guilty, the matter will be committed for sentence. If the defendant pleads not guilty or enters no plea, the matter will be committed for trial.

Legal Aid Representation:
If you have been granted legal aid for your committal, it is a condition of the grant of legal aid that your legal representative attends a case conference. A case conference will give your representative and the prosecution the opportunity to work out whether your case will proceed to a trial or become a sentence. The case conference will only be carried out when your solicitor has taken instructions from you.

Your case will only be committed for sentence if you decide to plead guilty. If you plead not guilty or enter no plea when you appear at a trial in the District Court or Supreme Court, a jury will decide whether or not you are guilty.

http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-resources/are-you-facing-a-committal

 

[Deleted member 102539]

and again ,, this relative isn't named, and isn't, as far as is known, a doctor, so it is anecdotal... nothing wrong with that, but my distancing from this 'diagnosis' is that he has been currently held in an ordinary rural prison cell, and this is not the usual treatment of someone suffering from anything on the Autistic and/or Aspergers spectrum..

He would have been transferred to a specialist hospital, if he was affected with this illness.. . It is hard for me to imagine that being as is stated, Aspergers, and/or Autistic, he is able to be held in the area he is currently, even with his twin brother present, ( which in itself is odd as the mother wouldn't let the other twin in the same house as Vincent, ( according to Marcus ) ...

But it isn't relevant in so far is it is only differing opinions at this point ..... this week the trial begins, or is it just the plea statement? I am not sure.. but if he is living under the condition of Aspergers/Autism it will, or should be , mentioned at this hearing.

Because his mental condition, if so affected will have tremendous bearing on whether he can conduct himself at trial and , more importantly, instruct his barrister as to the elements of his defence. If he is adjudged unable to do that, then this whole thing moves up and into a another sphere of the criminal justice operation, and so does Vincent. He moves into a different area of confinement and treatment.

"...Magistrate Kate Thompson refused a request from the brothers' solicitor Mr David Davidge for extra time and set the hearing date for March 31.
Mr Davidge asked for more time to obtain a doctor’s report, but Magistrate Thompson said she had already allowed the defence extra time..."

The lawyer is awaiting a doctor's report - for what purpose probably, in a murder case? I would see it more or less as a confirmation of the subject Aspergers/Autism. We will see.

Former classmates of Vincent Stanford say he was expelled from primary school when he was nine for attacking teacher

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-call-psycho-violent-rages.html#ixzz41Sbme8Hu

I think, no later than the age of 9 there was a medical examination of VS because of the incident at school.

 

[Trooper]

The lawyer is awaiting a doctor's report - for what purpose probably, in a murder case? I would see it more or less as a confirmation of the subject Aspergers/Autism. We will see.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-call-psycho-violent-rages.html#ixzz41Sbme8Hu

I think, no later than the age of 9 there was a medical examination of VS because of the incident at school.

The thing is.. awaiting a medical report from a doctor in Holland cannot be the reason for delay, or hopefully not the basis for the defence. A letter wouldn't do it. If this letter is about some medical examination at age 9 in Holland that points to some Autistic/Aspergers element, it would require the personal appearance of the doctor.. .. The doctor would have to testify, and be cross examined as to his examination and conclusions.. a mere letter isn't of any use, both to Vincent and the Court.

So maybe the Doctor will fly out and appear, who knows. At the Hearing (March 31 ) it will be established whether he is sane enough to instruct his barrister throughout the trial. If he cant, in the Court's opinion, the matter takes another road altogether.

To establish his sanity, this Dutch Doctors input will be crucial. Hence his appearance being necessary. Not that the court is obliged to validate the Dutch doctors conclusions.. the prosecutor may have, and most likely has, engaged doctors to observe and examine Vincent now, currently, and come to various conclusions....

The only question in regard to Vincent's mental state is, can he instruct his barrister at trial?. That is all at this point. ... Any proposals of the nature of diminished responsibility due to mental impairment will emerge thru the trial. .. if not at the Hearing when he has to make a plea. Not Guilty, Not guilty due to mental impairment, Guilty. .

 

[Estelle]

The thing is.. awaiting a medical report from a doctor in Holland cannot be the reason for delay, or hopefully not the basis for the defence. A letter wouldn't do it. If this letter is about some medical examination at age 9 in Holland that points to some Autistic/Aspergers element, it would require the personal appearance of the doctor.. .. The doctor would have to testify, and be cross examined as to his examination and conclusions.. a mere letter isn't of any use, both to Vincent and the Court.

So maybe the Doctor will fly out and appear, who knows. At the Hearing (March 31 ) it will be established whether he is sane enough to instruct his barrister throughout the trial. If he cant, in the Court's opinion, the matter takes another road altogether.

To establish his sanity, this Dutch Doctors input will be crucial. Hence his appearance being necessary. Not that the court is obliged to validate the Dutch doctors conclusions.. the prosecutor may have, and most likely has, engaged doctors to observe and examine Vincent now, currently, and come to various conclusions....

The only question in regard to Vincent's mental state is, can he instruct his barrister at trial?. That is all at this point. ... Any proposals of the nature of diminished responsibility due to mental impairment will emerge thru the trial. .. if not at the Hearing when he has to make a plea. Not Guilty, Not guilty due to mental impairment, Guilty. .

Can a Dutch doctor appear on Skype?

 

[Trooper]

Can a Dutch doctor appear on Skype?

of course he can.. that's called, 'making an appearance'.... if this so far unknown Dutch Doctor has input into the trial, he has to make himself available for cross examination .. . since , it appears from the original newsreport, it is the defence that is awaiting some sign of life from the doctor, it means the doctor would have to be questioned by the state prosecutor. . .cross-examined.

The method of that, , live appearance in court, Skype, televised content, doesn't really matter as long as the question and answer can proceed with continuity and openness, unhampered by technical glitch etc.. who pays for this?... since it is the defence the doctor is apparently in communication with.. the defence would be up for the costs..

A lot would depend on whether this mysterious Dutch doctor has seen Vincent since he was nine. . so far, that hasn't been reported.. merely a supposition that Vincent was in medical consultation with a doctor at the age of nine. No corroboration of that, ........