Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Watergate]

When you find yourself in the company of thieves you have to worry about two things, what they are going to do with you, and what they might do to each other. Gangs have hierarchy.
When you steal something, it is open to be stolen again. When you have a mark, you become a mark.
We cannot imagine the intricacies of being caught in unfamiliar territory with strange and desperate people.
The idea that Theo may have money or valuables at the hostel is a possible explanation why we have a Wake Up search location. They may even ask Theo to do so. It is always best to humour dangerous people when you get trapped in their company. The possibilities are endless but most crimes are straight forward once you have the pieces. I do not believe Theo would enter the Bush alone. We should not assume the trouble surrounding byron is singular. Deciding to meet someone or tally up can bring a world of chaos.
This pic needs more discussion also.

 

[Rocket333]

When you find yourself in the company of thieves you have to worry about two things, what they are going to do with you, and what they might do to each other. Gangs have hierarchy.
When you steal something, it is open to be stolen again. When you have a mark, you become a mark.
We cannot imagine the intricacies of being caught in unfamiliar territory with strange and desperate people.
The idea that Theo may have money or valuables at the hostel is a possible explanation why we have a Wake Up search location. They may even ask Theo to do so. It is always best to humour dangerous people when you get trapped in their company. The possibilities are endless but most crimes are straight forward once you have the pieces. I do not believe Theo would enter the Bush alone. We should not assume the trouble surrounding byron is singular. Deciding to meet someone or tally up can bring a world of chaos.
This pic needs more discussion also.

So true Watergate. I was only just thinking of those images from the door, but haven’t seen them in awhile. Is that Antoine beside him? I’d love to see footage from inside the bar too. I’d also like to watch more from the cctv outside the bar, on Kingsley Street particularly.

“We went out together after leaving the hostel and we arrived with some other people from the hostel and then everyone talked with other people,' Mr Antoine Van Laethem told The Daily Telegraph. I didn't see him leaving before me, I don't know when he left the bar before us. An hour later he was kicked out of Cheeky Monkey's.”

Theo Hayez friend reveals last moments at Bryon Bay bar on night he disappeared | Daily Mail Online

 

[mussopossum]

We can definitely say Theo was not drunk if he was running. Drunk people don't run. Brings it back to why was there attention on him at Cheeky's? Stating he was intoxicated just doesn't cut it. If that was my 18 year old daughter put out on the street at night on her own I would be fuming, why did this happen to a young fellow in a strange country and for a reason which doesn't seem to exist. Their silence is deafening. Not one post shared on their FB page about the fact that a young person went missing, last seen at their venue. It is just wrong no matter what angle you look at it from.

I have to disagree with drunk people dont run.

If i was drunk and felt in fear as thought someone was following me and was in danger I definitely
would run.

I have to say back in my days one the things I did when out on a bender with young friends was run up and down the sports oval playing tag and carrying on like a silly bugger.

For some reason I am fit when I am drunk, Im not a fit person I cant run or do high exercise but after im typsy suddenly im an athlete. Cant explain it lol.

So much of his actions that night with his route and messages just are so perplexing arnt they

 

[feralflower]

I find it odd that Theo didn't message his friend who he went to Cheeky's with to tell him he has been booted. Maybe had other things on his mind. Just odd as they spent the day together, went to bottle shop together, the barb q at Wake Up then went to Cheeky's together, would think he would have messaged him. He added him on his FB so he was able to but for some reason he didn't.

 

[mussopossum]

I find it odd that Theo didn't message his friend who he went to Cheeky's with to tell him he has been booted. Maybe had other things on his mind. Just odd as they spent the day together, went to bottle shop together, the barb q at Wake Up then went to Cheeky's together, would think he would have messaged him. He added him on his FB so he was able to but for some reason he didn't.

I found this also quite strange to be honest.

 

[feralflower]

If he was running from someone and in danger would be odd to run to an isolated area. Maybe he didn't run, maybe someone had a pushbike and lent him one from Tennyson camp, could have been pedaling to Cosy, and if on a bike easier to lose your hat and go back to find it at night be harder than if just running or walking.

 

[Rocket333]

Remember the zig zag route that was released too? If accurate, he went right up Tennyson Street then turned around and went across the oval. He appears to move up and down the oval and/or Cowper Street too, prior to heading directly to the Milne track.

 

[Watergate]

I find it odd that Theo didn't message his friend who he went to Cheeky's with to tell him he has been booted. Maybe had other things on his mind. Just odd as they spent the day together, went to bottle shop together, the barb q at Wake Up then went to Cheeky's together, would think he would have messaged him. He added him on his FB so he was able to but for some reason he didn't.

Have you heard podcast 1?
Antoines stammers in places and his accounts conflicts to a degree with another backpacker who Incidently doesn't want to give his name but was in CM's that night. Antoine had his telephone number to pass on to the podcaster?
If you dismantle both those testimonies they conflict to some degree. Antoine describes what CM's is like but not what it was on that particularly night. It's deflecting as it gives the impression CM's is busy and he lost Theo in that. Whereas nameless guy says it was very quiet and not many there. In the couple of minutes they speak we have three unnamed girls mentioned that far as I know have never been spoken too? I was told the clip of Theo (with muddy pants?) is a clip from cctv footage. Where is the original it comes from? I don't like the mood in the photo. It looks as if Theo is confused or trying to be open but there is amusement or ridicule in the manner of the onlookers. In not sure if extended arm is customer or staff at CM's. I'm not convinced why Antoine would text Theo next morning when they stay in the same place? I have lots of questions surrounding this aspect. Perhaps it is innocent but definitely we the public do not have enough information to put to rest. I think people know more than they are saying.

 

[Watergate]

I think, it could be possible, that the pic of Theo outside CM's shows he's under some pressure, possibly after falling inside which is why his trousers are stained. He's put outside where people are laughing and Theo is trying to explain that he is okay.
This is hard to do when you're tipsy and people are taking the piss. He shows, phone on one hand, wallet in the other. Rather then cross Jonson Street and walk away in view of this audience he rounds the corner to Kingsley pulling out his phone to either message someone or pull up maps to find alternative route. Hence eventually going north up Tennyson. Its also possible, someone with Theo spiked his drink and this is why they are not willing to divulge and are wanting to distance themselves as the outcome has become catastrophic.
He is a mark, an easy pick.
Whatever happened, happened somewhere between Tennyson and Marvel Rd in my opinion. This is where things go astray. Theo either disorientated accepts help and/or advice falling into unsafe situation.
In this company, he may have to run with them because of threat they are under and inadvertently gets lost in the bush or becomes vulnerable there.
If its true only Theo can access his phone through password or print, then we can assume he made it through this situation. His endeavour to locate Wake Up suggests either he or someone wanted to make their way back to the hostel.
If you've ever dropped a phone in the dark face down you'll understand how hard it is to find.
Either way it looks as if his phone sleeps for several hours before pinging on Patterson indicating a quadrant of area most likely to be near. This could be someone finding the phone and switching it on temporarily to see if it works. A homeless person might do this or a walker. Remember it will be almost a week before any real publicity surrounding Theo's disappearance comes to light. Its not implausible his phone is sitting in a lost and found drawer somewhere. But it is between the hours of two and six, between Tallow and the town Theo vanishes. Who did he meet patrolling during those hours?
Did he accept a lift back to his hostel? Did he get offered indoors too clean up and make a phone call? So many possibilities.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I think it's worthwhile looking at the larger picture. Things rarely happen as an isolated incident. Wherever there is tragedy, you can count on it having happened to someone else before. If not, there is usually some kind of lead up, red flag or near miss.

Based on prior incidents, the possibility that Theo accidentally fell down the cliff edge or was taken by sharks has already been discussed at length. However, there’s been no real discussion based on other types of prior incidents.

Although a backpacker hasn’t disappeared like this in Byron Bay before, there are incidents of muggings, violence, and other antisocial behaviours linked to drug and alcohol abuse. Theo’s disappearance could have started out as one of these.

I’d be interested to hear more about these stories from backpackers and locals, as there may be patterns or links to Theo’s last known steps.

I'm particularly curious to know if anyone has ever been mugged after leaving or being thrown out of CMs? Have backpackers been the target for muggings in the past? Is there a history of people hanging out at the rec grounds at night, doing what?

 

[mussopossum]

There is always going to be information from police / MSM that we do not hear as you know.

IMO,

If Theo was scared and feared for his life he would not be watching the Youtube video when he did.

Imagine if you were in an unfamiliar place, the bush say and feeling afraid for your life or you thought someone was following you? Would you start watching a video of a show you really enjoy? I would do that if I was relaxed and content, maybe waiting around for someone to turn up to meet me even.

In watching that youtube video it also required volume.

It has not been reported that Theo had any earphones with him to listen to his phone and seeing as he went out the night to be social it likely be the last thing you would shove in your pocket to take with you.

So he would have been in the bush, on the beach with his phone with volume up listening to that video. That in itself would alert anyone around him that he was there.

So this to me says he likely did not feel scared or threatened and was not worried who heard him.

I wonder if he watched this clip (as truely was a weird time to be watching in the middle nowhere), but was he showing someone who might have been with him?

My thoughts at this time are torn.

IMO Theo was alone until he got to the beach.

It was after his desire to return back to the backpackers that company joined him and he was never to be seen again.

 

[Watergate]

I think it's worthwhile looking at the larger picture. Things rarely happen as an isolated incident. Wherever there is tragedy, you can count on it having happened to someone else before. If not, there is usually some kind of lead up, red flag or near miss.

Based on prior incidents, the possibility that Theo accidentally fell down the cliff edge or was taken by sharks has already been discussed at length. However, there’s been no real discussion based on other types of prior incidents.

Although a backpacker hasn’t disappeared like this in Byron Bay before, there are incidents of muggings, violence, and other antisocial behaviours linked to drug and alcohol abuse. Theo’s disappearance could have started out as one of these.

I’d be interested to hear more about these stories from backpackers and locals, as there may be patterns or links to Theo’s last known steps.

This might help.
burgerIcon

Also you can google 'byron bay crime'
I also found these YouTube video interesting.

And of course...


Cheeky Monkey's, Byron Bay - Restaurant Reviews, Photos & Phone Number - TripAdvisor

 

[mussopossum]

I think it's worthwhile looking at the larger picture. Things rarely happen as an isolated incident. Wherever there is tragedy, you can count on it having happened to someone else before. If not, there is usually some kind of lead up, red flag or near miss.

Based on prior incidents, the possibility that Theo accidentally fell down the cliff edge or was taken by sharks has already been discussed at length. However, there’s been no real discussion based on other types of prior incidents.

Although a backpacker hasn’t disappeared like this in Byron Bay before, there are incidents of muggings, violence, and other antisocial behaviours linked to drug and alcohol abuse. Theo’s disappearance could have started out as one of these.

I’d be interested to hear more about these stories from backpackers and locals, as there may be patterns or links to Theo’s last known steps.

I'm particularly curious to know if anyone has ever been mugged after leaving or being thrown out of CMs? Have backpackers been the target for muggings in the past? Is there a history of people hanging out at the rec grounds at night, doing what?

At the end of Tennyson Street locals have reported that drug deals take place, homeless people take shelter in the bush and it is not the type spot you would like to walk into at night. The hang out is near the cricket nets and the shipping container on the field from what I was told. I did take a heap photos of that spot when was there and there was lots bottles and butts and bits hose there at the time.


I have not personally heard of muggings as such after leaving CM but that is a really good question. Might be worth some googling.

 

[Watergate]

There is always going to be information from police / MSM that we do not hear as you know.

IMO,

If Theo was scared and feared for his life he would not be watching the Youtube video when he did.

Imagine if you were in an unfamiliar place, the bush say and feeling afraid for your life or you thought someone was following you? Would you start watching a video of a show you really enjoy? I would do that if I was relaxed and content, maybe waiting around for someone to turn up to meet me even.

In watching that youtube video it also required volume.

It has not been reported that Theo had any earphones with him to listen to his phone and seeing as he went out the night to be social it likely be the last thing you would shove in your pocket to take with you.

So he would have been in the bush, on the beach with his phone with volume up listening to that video. That in itself would alert anyone around him that he was there.

So this to me says he likely did not feel scared or threatened and was not worried who heard him.

I wonder if he watched this clip (as truely was a weird time to be watching in the middle nowhere), but was he showing someone who might have been with him?

My thoughts at this time are torn.

IMO Theo was alone until he got to the beach.

It was after his desire to return back to the backpackers that company joined him and he was never to be seen again.

If this is correct, then Theo is indoors. But where? A vehicle or a building? Where will he find these things after running through the bush? Has he entered a camp and is entertaining his company? Is he told he is safe and he can relax? I know I could not.
But perhaps he must pretend?

 

[Rocket333]

]I think, it could be possible, that the pic of Theo outside CM's shows he's under some pressure, possibly after falling inside which is why his trousers are stained. He's put outside where people are laughing and Theo is trying to explain that he is okay.
This is hard to do when you're tipsy and people are taking the piss. He shows, phone on one hand, wallet in the other. Rather then cross Jonson Street and walk away in view of this audience he rounds the corner to Kingsley pulling out his phone to either message someone or pull up maps .”

Where is this pic of Theo with stained trousers? How do you know he fell?

 

[Watergate]

]I think, it could be possible, that the pic of Theo outside CM's shows he's under some pressure, possibly after falling inside which is why his trousers are stained. He's put outside where people are laughing and Theo is trying to explain that he is okay.
This is hard to do when you're tipsy and people are taking the piss. He shows, phone on one hand, wallet in the other. Rather then cross Jonson Street and walk away in view of this audience he rounds the corner to Kingsley pulling out his phone to either message someone or pull up maps .”

Where is this pic of Theo with stained trousers? How do you know he fell?

 

[Rocket333]

I’ve been looking at the extra info on the lighthouse podcast site. Theo walks to the end of Tennyson and then turns around and moves faster across the oval and all the way to cosy corner. He navigates along a particular bush track that’s dark and scrubby. His hat was found on or near that bush track (until now I always thought the cap was found near Cosy Corner). So he may have been aware of losing his cap in the scrub before he reached the beach. At Cosy Corner he messages family & a friend. He watches part of a Belgium show on YouTube, and that’s it.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/po...g/news-story/c452dc342d2fb74c740893a1a37c7265
NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Rocket333]

Watergate, that’s him arriving at CMs isn’t it? There’s another shot of the same time where he’s showing ID and entering.

 

[sparks030405]

I think it's worthwhile looking at the larger picture. Things rarely happen as an isolated incident. Wherever there is tragedy, you can count on it having happened to someone else before. If not, there is usually some kind of lead up, red flag or near miss.

Based on prior incidents, the possibility that Theo accidentally fell down the cliff edge or was taken by sharks has already been discussed at length. However, there’s been no real discussion based on other types of prior incidents.

Although a backpacker hasn’t disappeared like this in Byron Bay before, there are incidents of muggings, violence, and other antisocial behaviours linked to drug and alcohol abuse. Theo’s disappearance could have started out as one of these.

I’d be interested to hear more about these stories from backpackers and locals, as there may be patterns or links to Theo’s last known steps.

I'm particularly curious to know if anyone has ever been mugged after leaving or being thrown out of CMs? Have backpackers been the target for muggings in the past? Is there a history of people hanging out at the rec grounds at night, doing what?

I’ve seen a dodgy gang 5+ young guys with baseball bat in Marvell Ln (I think this is where it was) internal car parking area waiting for unsuspecting drunk loner to walk past and be king hit from behind. Was about 15 yrs ago late one night. Could put victim in car and take away from scene. That photo looks like security guard pointing, giving directions.

Seems like he arranged to join other/s at Cosy Corner and was running to get there to meet up/ get out of the bush ASAP, panicking a bit as so creepy. Made it through and was ok with company once there and sending message o/s and showing YouTube video for laughs. Maybe he overdosed on drugs and mate/s panicked being in foreign country with drugs and overdose victim. Too isolated at CC to get help in time. Could have had a bad trip on drugs (spiked or voluntary), run into water and drowned, suicide thoughts from drugs. I agree someone knows more and is not talking. Probably a foreign backpacker

 

[Rocket333]

That’s Theo showing his ID and going into Cheeky Monkey’s.