Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Chiatos]

I'm thinking Theo may not have known which way to go after leaving CM.

I've been to venues I have not been familiar and walked out not recalling which direction I came from to get in. So it makes sense that Theo may have headed the wrong direction unknowingly....

He would not have tried to draw attention to himself if getting kicked out either...these two equations need to be taken into consideration.

He might not have known initially, but certainly at some point he must have realised that he was heading towards the lighthouse instead of leaving it behind him?
Surely the lighthouse must have been lit in the dark? He must have known where he was going to.

 

[espirtu pampa]

Does anyone remember at what time Théo gave his last Whatsapp call ? I think it was very late : from Cosy Corner coud it be ?
The person concerned said Théo was looking forward to go home and that there seemed nothing to be bothered with, Théo was as usual.

 

[swedeheart]

How is it 'irresponsible' of the venue to ask him to leave? They've obviously viewed him being unsteady on his feet (or he's shown other signs of intoxication) and the only way they could ensure he didn't consume any more alcohol on their premises (and risk themselves getting a fine) was to kick him out.

He's an adult. From the video he looked to be a bit wobbly, but was alert and not in need of medical help at the time. Are bars and clubs meant to offer personal lifts home now, I don't understand?

see post #272. this bar has a history of kicking out "drunk" people, to the point of irresponsibility on their part, which makes me question why? (if you trust the complaints on their trip advisor reviews. i tend to trust the patrons over the owners in such cases. if it was one or 2 complaints, ok, but there are many, many complaints about being kicked out of the bar for a variety of borderline ridiculous reasons. makes me wonder WHY they are kicking out people left and right like that. )

 

[Rocket333]

How is it 'irresponsible' of the venue to ask him to leave? They've obviously viewed him being unsteady on his feet (or he's shown other signs of intoxication) and the only way they could ensure he didn't consume any more alcohol on their premises (and risk themselves getting a fine) was to kick him out.

He's an adult. From the video he looked to be a bit wobbly, but was alert and not in need of medical help at the time. Are bars and clubs meant to offer personal lifts home now, I don't understand?

No, just ensure the patron being turfed is able to function and remain safe. Duty of care and responsible practice isn’t much to expect. They commonly do it for females.

 

[Rocket333]

Does anyone remember at what time Théo gave his last Whatsapp call ? I think it was very late : from Cosy Corner coud it be ?
The person concerned said Théo was looking forward to go home and that there seemed nothing to be bothered with, Théo was as usual.

12.50am from memory.

 

[Rocket333]

He might not have known initially, but certainly at some point he must have realised that he was heading towards the lighthouse instead of leaving it behind him?
Surely the lighthouse must have been lit in the dark? He must have known where he was going to.

He may have also assumed or been under a false sense of security (due to google maps) that he could simply walk from CC to the Lighthouse and home.

 

[Watergate]

How is it 'irresponsible' of the venue to ask him to leave? They've obviously viewed him being unsteady on his feet (or he's shown other signs of intoxication) and the only way they could ensure he didn't consume any more alcohol on their premises (and risk themselves getting a fine) was to kick him out.

He's an adult. From the video he looked to be a bit wobbly, but was alert and not in need of medical help at the time. Are bars and clubs meant to offer personal lifts home now, I don't understand?

I don't understand what you don't understand. Deciding to remove someone because they're tipsy vs someone who is aggressive and causing mayhem is serious overkill. If he was that bad they'd have been able to provide more information on his condition. Nobody said anything about providing a lift home but offering to call an uber or use the shuttle bus the establishment has for getting people there isnt a big reach. If he says no, at least the establishment has offered duty of care. Especially when they're selling alcohol. They do need to bare some of the consequence evicting a tipsy young man into the streets of Byron alone. Its bs in my opinion. The shuttle bus just sitting there. If I was managing that bar I wouldn't feel too good about myself even if it was policy.

 

[Watergate]

He may have also assumed or been under a false sense of security (due to google maps) that he could simply walk from CC to the Lighthouse and home.

No way google would blue dot that route.

 

[Rocket333]

Keep in mind the original route published had the forked end at CC that implies he was exploring getting out of there up or around the headland. If he was (still) with a local he wouldn’t do this. I reckon he was alone at CC.

 

[Rocket333]

No way google would blue dot that route.

I’m not saying google would say you can walk from CC around the headland. Just that he may have assumed the beaches are connected or you can simply walk on from there (didn’t realise it was a dead end).

 

[espirtu pampa]

Theo has a Lot of pretty girls on his Facebook friends list, and I can imagine him being the type to attract attention of girls, and upsetting a boyfriend of a girl he might have been dancing and chatting up. Aussie blokes can’t dance, so maybe a reason for a scuffle and kicked out of CM

Well, Belgium besides beer and chocolate has a lot of good- looking women.

 

[Watergate]

I’m not saying google would say you can walk from CC around the headland. Just that he may have assumed the beaches are connected or you can simply walk on from there (didn’t realise it was a dead end).

Since he's only been in Byron 48 hours he may of thought Tallow beach was main beach. If you lift his route and graph it onto main beach he's actually trying to pass over the Bush to where wake up, belongi, would be.
Again, if someone in Byron could just recreate his route at the same time with phone and network he had we may get a better understanding.

 

[RubyRed57]

I don't believe that Theo was asked to leave CM for "approaching intoxication". As it's an active investigation, some information would be withheld by the police/family from the public. Perhaps the Coronial inquest will reveal new witnesses & other statements given etc in regards to this.. I wonder if they ever followed up on the person seen in the CCTV footage Caltex/Police/Aloha? With the recorded CCTV being around the same timeline as Theo was leaving CM, you wonder if this person was also asked to leave CM or it was just coincidence? From what I can understand,there was a gathering on Tallow Beach that night, 31 May, it's unclear how large/small it was, so is it possible that at the BBQ at Wake Up, the group there organise a time & place after they had gone out for the evening to meet up. Theo on CCTV looked as if he chose the direction of the destination purposefully, & perhaps caught up with someone at the area near the "Squatters Park" before perhaps running to catch up with the other group ahead, already on their way to Cosey Corner? Searching for a plan route to Wake Up along the way, may have been to make sure he had mobile phone reception & perhaps save it, so that he could find his way back from the beach? His family & friends say he was a planner, so it would make sense. Answering emails & watching a video might have been something he did while waiting for perhaps someone he knew or had organised to meet at Cosey Corner or perhaps it was just a way for him to feel comfortable & relax into a new social environment?

 

[Rocket333]

I wonder if a reward for info will be offered at some point, and if this would encourage someone in the know to tell?

 

[Harriettehighpants]

Maybe his phone went flat and switched off? Which is a good possibility considering he would of had to use his phone as a torch for over an hour on the track. Maybe he tried to make his way back and with no lighting fell off a cliff? He would have sobered up quite a bit over the hour of walking though so surely he would hear the waves crashing on the cliffs?
Does anyone know if his hat was found on a track or just in bush? Seems bizarre to head into bush where there's no clear track.

It's a weird destination to head to alone, but maybe he had heard of parties there and thought he would go to continue on partying?

Sorry, just rambling about some thoughts I have had about this whole thing.

 

[Rocket333]

Maybe his phone went flat and switched off? Which is a good possibility considering he would of had to use his phone as a torch for over an hour on the track. Maybe he tried to make his way back and with no lighting fell off a cliff? He would have sobered up quite a bit over the hour of walking though so surely he would hear the waves crashing on the cliffs?
Does anyone know if his hat was found on a track or just in bush? Seems bizarre to head into bush where there's no clear track.

It's a weird destination to head to alone, but maybe he had heard of parties there and thought he would go to continue on partying?

Sorry, just rambling about some thoughts I have had about this whole thing.

The cap was found in thick scrub on a bush track to the beach.

 

[Harriettehighpants]

The cap was found in thick scrub on a bush track to the beach.

Thank you.. strange they didn't find it sooner then! It seems like a pretty popular beach.

In the 2nd podcast they stop recording at the request of a local surfer before he tells them what he and others think happened. Anyone know the theory that the locals have? Other than his drink may have been spiked.

 

[Grapey]

I don't understand what you don't understand. Deciding to remove someone because they're tipsy vs someone who is aggressive and causing mayhem is serious overkill. If he was that bad they'd have been able to provide more information on his condition. Nobody said anything about providing a lift home but offering to call an uber or use the shuttle bus the establishment has for getting people there isnt a big reach. If he says no, at least the establishment has offered duty of care. Especially when they're selling alcohol. They do need to bare some of the consequence evicting a tipsy young man into the streets of Byron alone. Its bs in my opinion. The shuttle bus just sitting there. If I was managing that bar I wouldn't feel too good about myself even if it was policy.

Still don't understand tbh

I've been kicked out of places a few times and if something happened to me on the way home, the establishment that kicked me out would be the last people I would point blame at.

Their job doesn't entail making sure patrons get home to bed, tucked in safely. This is a grown adult leaving a bar. This isn't preschool.

The shuttle buses normally don't make trips for one person. They leave at scheduled times and take a few people. Unsure if this place operates theirs differently. Couldn't find it on their website.

 

[Harriettehighpants]

I have to agree with Grapey. He clearly wasn't legless and he could still operate his phone to order his own uber, but he had other plans.

 

[mussopossum]

What are the possibilities of a French speaking person answering Theo's texts pretending to be him? Say something happened to Theo in town, an argument with another French speaking tourist which went wrong? How long was Theo at the end of Tennyson? Pretty sure that he stopped there for a bit, and even a few minutes is enough to land in serious trouble. So say an accident happened as a result of a scuffle, the perpetrator panics, Theo's phone knowing it will lead to there, panics and runs all the way to Cosy Corner, takes the bush route to avoid being seen. Stops at Cosy and rests and uses Theo's phone answering his texts, even watch part of a video, make it look like all was well up to there. Using maps en route to make it appear he was lost. There are plenty French speaking back packers around and someone who was in serious trouble would pick the bush route over known trails to avoid bumping into anyone, to make it appear Theo was lost maybe. And would kind of fit that this person was in a hurry. It is a fair way to run without a good reason. Someone in a panicked state would move fast.
If this was the case then where would Theo be? If this person had a vehicle nearby then yes could have hidden him while he/they take the phone away. Later the hat after being cleaned is planted along the same route. The only confusion with this theory is the phone pinging next day. Why would they not dispose of the phone? Possibly left somewhere very well hidden, inside a hollow tree or similar, hoping the signal leads to the area, for all they would know people could have been searching next day so if his phone was pinging there, well then that is where everyone would look. Sounds way out I know but is it possible? I think the chance of this happening is there.

I beleive Theos OPPO 17 phone was finger print locked and it was original stated it could not be accessed by anyone but Theo. However in saying that if he was unconscious yes i guess his finger print could still be used to access. But how would they get to all the different locations pretending to be him if he was unconscious?

At first I thought the same, someone pretended to be Theo and someone planted the hat but then I thought why would they bother, If a crime was committed would you not just leave the scene and destroy the phone and get the hell out of there.

I would like to hear more about this running data though and hope they talk about this more in podcast.

Looking at the maps we have seen so far in MSM I cannot see how he could run through the bush down to the beach. Up the goat track certainly but isn't the bush really thick and dense in areas there? Unless the maps we are seeing are not correct?

I haven't walked through here yet and would like to to get understanding of the area more.

I would presume that where the hat was found in bush it has been cross referenced with his google data locations by the family too so be interesting to see if podcast does say if the hat appears to have been planted due to lack of evidence Theo ever went there.