Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[mussopossum]

Coroner has a bit more scope and isn't as bound as the Police by legal procedure. Hopefully, some information will come to light from the inquiry.

Terribly sad and a very emotional time for all of those involved in both the community and Theos family and friends. I am pleased it is going to the coroner for answers.

 

[mussopossum]

Yes, I suspect this is the case. There has been no proof of life for 3 months now. And they may think he has gone into the ocean and been swept away.

I wonder if Theo's swimming skills were good, or if he could even swim. Not everyone swims as well as many Aussies do. And foreigners frequently get into difficulties in our waters (well, they do on Bondi Rescue ).

Even though the map route that was released in MSM cannot be 100% proven that it was in fact where Theo walked that night.

I used it to gps match the locations as best I could on my phone to that map. The final dot and dot before it landed me on a large rock on the beach. The rock was large more in length and width and not real high. The type of rock you would venture in as far as you could without getting wet to admire the sound and look of the ocean. This rock I could see would be underwater high tide but no water at low tide.

Was also lots crevices and holes in it so easy to fall over and knock yourself out IMO.

If Theo went in the water IMO it was not intentionally.

 

[SouthAussie]

Even though the map route that was released in MSM cannot be 100% proven that it was in fact where Theo walked that night.

I used it to gps match the locations as best I could on my phone to that map. The final dot and dot before it landed me on a large rock on the beach. The rock was large more in length and width and not real high. The type of rock you would venture in as far as you could without getting wet to admire the sound and look of the ocean. This rock I could see would be underwater high tide but no water at low tide.

Was also lots crevices and holes in it so easy to fall over and knock yourself out IMO.

If Theo went in the water IMO it was not intentionally.

I don't think he would have gone into the water intentionally either. Not on a cold winter's night, that's for sure.

I was just wondering about his ability to save himself, if he did go in accidentally or through another's doing.


ETA: Quite frankly, I don't even see him climbing on rocks at night in an area he is not familiar with - but others seem to think he/people would do that, so I am going with it for the moment.

 

[espirtu pampa]

I don't think he would have gone into the water intentionally either. Not on a cold winter's night, that's for sure.

I was just wondering about his ability to save himself, if he did go in accidentally or through another's doing.
ETA: Quite frankly, I don't even see him climbing on rocks at night in an area he is not familiar with - but others seem to think he/people would do that, so I am going with it for the moment.

At the time Théo was there, as suggested, it wast low tide, wasn' it ? So he must have been seriously injured (unconscious ?) not to be able to get out before high tide was coming in.

 

[SouthAussie]

At the time Théo was there, as suggested, it wast low tide, wasn' it ? So he must have been seriously injured (unconscious ?) not to be able to get out before high tide was coming in.

Yes, that would have been the scenario, I would think.
I have always been very suspicious of the circumstances in which Theo disappeared. I think he has fallen victim to foul play.
I might feel differently if it was daytime when he disappeared, if he is a surfer who got into trouble, if he is a cliff climber, something more credible or feasible to me.
Instead he seems like he is a pretty responsible guy who was drunk and friendly. And that could be a fatal combination if he came across the wrong type of person.

 

[Watergate]

Cap looks too dark to be Theo's imo. Bonfire of the Vanities perhaps. I wonder if he got knocked down? Intoxicated driver panicked and put him in car took him out of the area completely. It's possible. Returned next day to launch phone into the sea. Article today indicated phone was on sleep mode when it pinged. They're not releasing time line on pings which would give some indication on movements and duration. It must be remembered Theo was missing six days before anyone reported it. There's definitely more information than the public are being told. If you've followed 'the lady vanishes,' you'll understand the event of going to the coroner is positive. It allows access to files an ongoing investigation wouldn't. Unanswered questions are a nightmare for families in these circumstances. I hope they release more facts to the public soon and offer some reward for information.

 

[mussopossum]

I don't think he would have gone into the water intentionally either. Not on a cold winter's night, that's for sure.

I was just wondering about his ability to save himself, if he did go in accidentally or through another's doing.


ETA: Quite frankly, I don't even see him climbing on rocks at night in an area he is not familiar with - but others seem to think he/people would do that, so I am going with it for the moment.

Here are the rocks low tide.

I can’t remember if was full moon that night (unlikely) but if was enough light you could see the water, rocks and sand. When I was there low tide you could still walk around this spot with no water.

We also don’t know if he was adventurous or would take risks. I’m a very cautious person and don’t like taking risks but know I probably would have stood in that spot after a few drinks that night if I could see the water was still a good 5-10 m away.

The rocks I got my locations on we’re about at most 1.5 foot high and final rock was about 1 foot high. No climbing needed however it was the holes and crevices in the rock you could come unstuck and fall and knock yourself out easily.

That would be my concern falling from foot stuck in a hole.

If he fell in this spot and was not unconscious it would been easy way out low tide. Could feel your way out in pitch dark.

If he fell hit his head he could died instantly and gone out with the tide. Or been injured unable to move then drowned at high tide.


Wish we had more into.

 

[espirtu pampa]

Thank you very much for these pictures mussopossum.
I read it was a moonless night.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

That is so very sad for Theo's family. I cannot imagine their grief. What should have been a wonderful gap year holiday has resulted in the loss of a son.

Sounds as if the police have discounted the cap as belonging to Theo.
"The ABC understands forensic tests failed to produce a DNA match, but that those close to the family believe it belonged to Mr Hayez."

And it sounds as if his family believe Theo was with other people that night, not alone.
"We've got a strong belief and also because we know how Theo is and what he would do, he would not spend a night alone outside in an environment he didn't know, so we strongly believe that he was with people on that night," he said.

What beautiful artistry on the beach for Theo at his remembrance vigil.

This photo is absolutely gorgeous. What a beautiful & thoughtful gesture in Theo’s memory.

 

[Via Marple]

Here are the rocks low tide.

I can’t remember if was full moon that night (unlikely) but if was enough light you could see the water, rocks and sand. When I was there low tide you could still walk around this spot with no water.

We also don’t know if he was adventurous or would take risks. I’m a very cautious person and don’t like taking risks but know I probably would have stood in that spot after a few drinks that night if I could see the water was still a good 5-10 m away.

The rocks I got my locations on we’re about at most 1.5 foot high and final rock was about 1 foot high. No climbing needed however it was the holes and crevices in the rock you could come unstuck and fall and knock yourself out easily.

That would be my concern falling from foot stuck in a hole.

If he fell in this spot and was not unconscious it would been easy way out low tide. Could feel your way out in pitch dark.

If he fell hit his head he could died instantly and gone out with the tide. Or been injured unable to move then drowned at high tide.


Wish we had more into.

This is very helpful thank you!

I guess I still have to ask,
If he had fallen and got injured there around those rocks, and couldn't move, do you think he would be seen from Cosy Corner and further down the beach?

High tide didn't come up until after 6am on 1 June. People going to the beach in the morning would have spotted him lying there, before the sea took him. Or not, if it was still dark!

It may be possible there are crevices deep enough to hide him..?

Or, would he have made it further around the headland (beyond where you were standing) before he fell? Then he would be totally out of view.

How his phone supposedly was left behind at Cosy Corner, I do not know in this scenario.

EDIT : URGH! Confused about tide times. I posted the tide chart myself in #1

Australia - Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

So, the first high tide was 6:37am on 1 June. Not very high, less than a metre higher than the low tide at 12.41am. After midday was another low tide. (Obviously I am not a seaside person)

 

[Jenz]

If Theo did trip or fall and taken by the tide it would be such a sad misfortune of timing for him.
The low tide was 12.41am and high tide 6.38am.

Unfortunately, surfers would not have been so close to those rocks if they were out that morning earlier than high tide. Being winter, I would only think walkers would not have been walking earlier than the tide would have started rising. I could be wrong...

So, so sad. I have always thought this may have been the scenario, he tripped or fell. Still bothers me though, I don't believe he went there alone and I believe someone knows something.

 

[Via Marple]

If Theo did trip or fall and taken by the tide it would be such a sad misfortune of timing for him.
The low tide was 12.41am and high tide 6.38am.

Unfortunately, surfers would not have been so close to those rocks if they were out that morning earlier than high tide. Being winter, I would only think walkers would not have been walking earlier than the tide would have started rising. I could be wrong...

So, so sad. I have always thought this may have been the scenario, he tripped or fell. Still bothers me though, I don't believe he went there alone and I believe someone knows something.
View attachment 204811

Absolutely, that timing would have been tragic. Usually you find them injured or killed at bottom of cliffs, lying on rocks etc.

But there is a thing called "freak accidents", and there tend to be someone who suffers from those.

I am not so sure there are others with him. Byron Bay can be very quiet at night, away from the main street.

 

[Via Marple]

Just one more of my old posts... The moon chart,

Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

Moon rose 3:56am

 

[Jenz]

Just thinking, less than one metre is not that much higher. The photos I posted on page 4 of this thread show those photos of the rocks mussopossum posted on this page.

The photos I posted were taken close to the time of high tide, which for that day was 1.46mtres and you can still see those rocks in those photos...

Edited for a typo

 

[espirtu pampa]

Just one more of my old posts... The moon chart,

Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

Moon rose 3:56am

Didn't they say the sky was very cloudy and almost no wind ?

 

[gregjrichards]

That is so very sad for Theo's family. I cannot imagine their grief. What should have been a wonderful gap year holiday has resulted in the loss of a son.

Sounds as if the police have discounted the cap as belonging to Theo.
"The ABC understands forensic tests failed to produce a DNA match, but that those close to the family believe it belonged to Mr Hayez."

And it sounds as if his family believe Theo was with other people that night, not alone.
"We've got a strong belief and also because we know how Theo is and what he would do, he would not spend a night alone outside in an environment he didn't know, so we strongly believe that he was with people on that night," he said.

What beautiful artistry on the beach for Theo at his remembrance vigil.

That is a beautiful photo thank you so much for posting this.

This photo is absolutely gorgeous. What a beautiful & thoughtful gesture in Theo’s memory.

The people of Byron Bay have been absolutely incredible and so kind. This is a lovely act of kindness and genuinely moving.

My thoughts and prayers continue to be with Theo and his loved ones. This was my worst fear that Theo would never be found which must be torture for his family.

 

[mussopossum]

This is very helpful thank you!

I guess I still have to ask,
If he had fallen and got injured there around those rocks, and couldn't move, do you think he would be seen from Cosy Corner and further down the beach?

High tide didn't come up until after 6am on 1 June. People going to the beach in the morning would have spotted him lying there, before the sea took him. Or not, if it was still dark!

It may be possible there are crevices deep enough to hide him..?

Or, would he have made it further around the headland (beyond where you were standing) before he fell? Then he would be totally out of view.

How his phone supposedly was left behind at Cosy Corner, I do not know in this scenario.

EDIT : URGH! Confused about tide times. I posted the tide chart myself in #1

Australia - Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

So, the first high tide was 6:37am on 1 June. Not very high, less than a metre higher than the low tide at 12.41am. After midday was another low tide. (Obviously I am not a seaside person)

To be honest, no to hiding in crevices, I will post pics of rocks area in another post.

You cannot see this spot at Cosy from the lighthouse lookout. If he fell at night and hit the rocks landed on sand, if someone was walking along beach towards that far end up to maybe 40m yes they might see him. Further down beach though not a chance.

I could see seaweed and fresh debris in this rock so know high tide has been over that particular rock recently.

Beach was deserted at 2pm on a beautiful day. Not a single surfer, walker, fisherman in sight for the couple hours I was there.

Only people was a couple in a tiny tent about 1km up the beach who were @cough@ lol smoking things

 

[mussopossum]

To get an idea of the pings in the map that was released msm.

I am hoping these will come in order.

I stood different t spots to see where I pinged over couple hours.

1. First ping was standing looking at water with the headland / cliff to my left. There is in fact a small trail that goes up there you can see. I could get up it to a certain point. In the dark pretty scary but still doable. You could only go so far though. Two photos here of this spot.

2. as far as I could go at low tide with small rocks and sand and not final ping area I see

3. Was spot one that I thought he may stood compared to the msm map.

Have to do seperate post for final as too many pics

 

[mussopossum]

4. final ping as per msm map

If you zoom in to this other photo you will see area where fence is. This is where it seems other red dots were where he walked up did a loop on map then back again I may also note the area where fence was there was fair bit rubbish like cans butts etc in one spot but could be due high tide

 

[mussopossum]

This is very helpful thank you!

I guess I still have to ask,
If he had fallen and got injured there around those rocks, and couldn't move, do you think he would be seen from Cosy Corner and further down the beach?

High tide didn't come up until after 6am on 1 June. People going to the beach in the morning would have spotted him lying there, before the sea took him. Or not, if it was still dark!

It may be possible there are crevices deep enough to hide him..?

Or, would he have made it further around the headland (beyond where you were standing) before he fell? Then he would be totally out of view.

How his phone supposedly was left behind at Cosy Corner, I do not know in this scenario.

EDIT : URGH! Confused about tide times. I posted the tide chart myself in #1

Australia - Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019

So, the first high tide was 6:37am on 1 June. Not very high, less than a metre higher than the low tide at 12.41am. After midday was another low tide. (Obviously I am not a seaside person)

Sorry Marple,

No don’t know you would go round headland especially in dark. It isn’t deep water here may I add as per pics. High tide even not looking deep but would be deep enough to drown if you knocked yourself out. It’s light here around 6 am that time, light enough to see someone