Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Grapey]

see post #272. this bar has a history of kicking out "drunk" people, to the point of irresponsibility on their part, which makes me question why? (if you trust the complaints on their trip advisor reviews. i tend to trust the patrons over the owners in such cases. if it was one or 2 complaints, ok, but there are many, many complaints about being kicked out of the bar for a variety of borderline ridiculous reasons. makes me wonder WHY they are kicking out people left and right like that. )

Yeah I've read that. Negative reviews happen at a lot of party venues because people getting kicked out don't believe they're 'that' drunk when they actually are. Some put in a negative review right there on the spot.

I tend to go the other way and believe the security guards. The ones that regularly get kicked, punched and spat on for kicking someone out who 'isn't even that drunk'.

 

[Watergate]

I have to agree with Grapey. He clearly wasn't legless and he could still operate his phone to order his own uber, but he had other plans.

If he wasn't 'legless' then why evict him at all. I guess we'll have to differ on this. My son was thrown out of a pub one night because he wasn't drinking enough. Go figure.

 

[Watergate]

Yeah I've read that. Negative reviews happen at a lot of party venues because people getting kicked out don't believe they're 'that' drunk when they actually are. Some put in a negative review right there on the spot.

I tend to go the other way and believe the security guards. The ones that regularly get kicked, punched and spat on for kicking someone out who 'isn't even that drunk'.

We defo could do with a reconstruction.

 

[Harriettehighpants]

If he wasn't 'legless' then why evict him at all. I guess we'll have to differ on this. My son was thrown out of a pub one night because he wasn't drinking enough. Go figure.

Your son is the perfect example of security being on a power trip. From the cctv of Theo leaving cm he doesn't look that intoxicated imo. I would like to know more about why he was evicted.

 

[feralflower]

I beleive Theos OPPO 17 phone was finger print locked and it was original stated it could not be accessed by anyone but Theo. However in saying that if he was unconscious yes i guess his finger print could still be used to access. But how would they get to all the different locations pretending to be him if he was unconscious?

At first I thought the same, someone pretended to be Theo and someone planted the hat but then I thought why would they bother, If a crime was committed would you not just leave the scene and destroy the phone and get the hell out of there.

I would like to hear more about this running data though and hope they talk about this more in podcast.

Looking at the maps we have seen so far in MSM I cannot see how he could run through the bush down to the beach. Up the goat track certainly but isn't the bush really thick and dense in areas there? Unless the maps we are seeing are not correct?

I haven't walked through here yet and would like to to get understanding of the area more.

I would presume that where the hat was found in bush it has been cross referenced with his google data locations by the family too so be interesting to see if podcast does say if the hat appears to have been planted due to lack of evidence Theo ever went there.

If phone was not switched off , kept active it would not require the fingerprint to re activate. Someone posted info about this on another site. You can use the Oppo phone in sleep mode without fingerprint. See the attached info.

 

[Rocket333]

I beleive Theos OPPO 17 phone was finger print locked and it was original stated it could not be accessed by anyone but Theo. However in saying that if he was unconscious yes i guess his finger print could still be used to access. But how would they get to all the different locations pretending to be him if he was unconscious?

At first I thought the same, someone pretended to be Theo and someone planted the hat but then I thought why would they bother, If a crime was committed would you not just leave the scene and destroy the phone and get the hell out of there.

I would like to hear more about this running data though and hope they talk about this more in podcast.

Looking at the maps we have seen so far in MSM I cannot see how he could run through the bush down to the beach. Up the goat track certainly but isn't the bush really thick and dense in areas there? Unless the maps we are seeing are not correct?

I haven't walked through here yet and would like to to get understanding of the area more.

I would presume that where the hat was found in bush it has been cross referenced with his google data locations by the family too so be interesting to see if podcast does say if the hat appears to have been planted due to lack of evidence Theo ever went there.

Doubt he was unconscious and doubt anyone else impersonated him on his phone.
Re the bush track, this is from The Australian.
“The next part of Theo's journey was marked in red by Google. From Tennyson St, Theo walks to the end of the street but turns around at the point where it meets the bush. From there he walks through the suburban streets of Byron Bay, arriving at Milne St. Instead of taking Milne Track which leads straight to Tallow Beach, Theo follows a different track further to the north, winding his way through dense bushland. After following this track for some time, he started winding his way through dense bushland towards the beach. It is in this bushland that Theo's cap was found five weeks after he vanished.”

NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Rocket333]

Re the kicking Theo out due to intoxication thing

You wouldn’t/shouldn’t kick someone vulnerable, ie an intellectual impairment out without ensuring they had support, so the same would go for someone pretty wasted.

It’s probably safe to say Theo was “allegedly” drunk enough to breach the bars rules or whatever, but not drunk enough to warrant calling for support.

 

[Rocket333]

The trip from CMs to CC took an hour.
It’s 3.3 kms. According to google it’d take an hour on foot, 15 minutes by car and around 20 minutes by bike. He apparently walked to the oval, maybe stopped for a bit, then ran or hiked to the beach.

It’s taken the same time as walking the entire way, yet he went fast for 3/4 of it.

Thoughts?

 

[RubyRed57]

If he wasn't 'legless' then why evict him at all. I guess we'll have to differ on this. My son was thrown out of a pub one night because he wasn't drinking enough. Go figure.

Having worked in the nightclub scene years ago, they would do this regularly, especially if a club was close to capacity or there were people waiting to get in. Money is made by a door surcharge & mainly from the profits drank at the bar, if a person is taking up a bar stool & is not turning enough profit then will be removed for whatever reason to allow others to come in who will turn a profit for the bar.

 

[Chiatos]

From what I can understand,there was a gathering on Tallow Beach that night, 31 May, it's unclear how large/small it was, so is it possible that at the BBQ at Wake Up, the group there organise a time & place after they had gone out for the evening to meet up

Having studied maps and streetview of Byron B. and Jonson Street in particular, I believe Theo walked eastwards intentionally.
Although not long in Byron Bay, Theo had been travelling for some time already and surely knew how to orientate and navigate.
The shuttle bus he arrived in, must have crossed the railtrack between Shirley St. and Lawson Lane before reaching CM. Theo must have known that he would have to follow the railtrack northbound (more or less) in order to reach Wake Up.
Instead, he turns away from the railtrack and heads eastwards towards the beach where you say there was a gathering.

 

[Rocket333]

Hypothetical scenarios

Theo heads home to Wake Up from CMs via Tennyson Street, as an acquaintance said they’d be there (in a home or a car at the end of Tennyson or on the oval).

1. When Theo arrives the acquaintance tells him they need to get to the Milne Track quickly to catch a ride, go to a beach party or meet others. They run to the track and veer off just before the Tallow Beach car park to head for the sand. The mate may even have headed to the car park and told Theo to go wait on the beach. Theo hurried through the dense scrub on the track and comes out on the beach where he walks to the end to wait. He texts his sister Emma and watched part of a Belgium tv show before being interrupted or turning it off to conserve his battery. He wants to head home and google shows the exit is back along the beach. It’s now not safe to return the way he came in so he searches for an exit up or around the Cape. There’s none. There’s a scuffle and he drops his phone. He exits the place via the Tallow car park. His phone is retrieved the next day and destroyed.

OR

2. When Theo arrives at the end of Tennyson the acquaintance contacts him to say they are now at the Milne Track and to hurry up or he’ll miss out. Theo looks up directions to the Milne Track and runs there. He can’t find his mate, so he continues down the main track and then makes his way to the beach. The Tallows car park is close to him but he veers off on a dense bush track before it and ends up on the beach. If he was following google maps he’d know the car park is just ahead. He loses his cap whilst making his way through the thick scrub. He’s alone on the beach and walks to the end. His mate may have told him to wait at CC. He checks for how to get home and learns it’s back the way he came. He texts his sister Emma and watches part of a Belgium tv show while waiting on the beach. Company arrives and things turn scary. Theo drops his phone whilst searching for ways to escape around the headland because he can’t escape back down the beach. He eventually exits the place from the car park. His phone is retrieved the next day and destroyed.

problem: the acquaintance/mate would have to have made contact by phone and there’s to date no mention of any calls or messaging at Tennyson Street.

 

[Watergate]

Google won't display calls or messages only location activity and google functions as far as I'm aware. They know he messaged his sister and friend because they informed them far as I'm aware. He didn't search for Milne or Tallow beach. That he crosses the Oval at pace is bizarre and suggests several scenarios,
1. He's giving chase.
2 He's being chased and marvel St or Tennyson are not good options so he goes off road.
3 He's been contacted on WhatsApp to join someone on Tallow Beach but to hurry up? When he gets to Milne he goes into bush to avoid someone or he's following someone. (This is why reconstruction is so necessary to see how his phone is tracking)
If someone cheekily grabbed Theo's phone be might persue. The person may even give phone back having succeeded in getting Theo onto Tallow Beach and to Cosy Corner. He relaxes, messages his family/friends then locating Wake up he sets to crossing steep incline when he either drops phone or it is taken. He may have proceeded to keep going without it and we're not to know he didn't make it out of the Bush to the Rd and catch a ride.
Whatever, happened his decisions between CM's and CC were quick ones because little time is lost.

 

[mussopossum]

If phone was not switched off , kept active it would not require the fingerprint to re activate. Someone posted info about this on another site. You can use the Oppo phone in sleep mode without fingerprint. See the attached info. View attachment 214739

Wow I didnt know that, pretty bad security slip up on Oppo then.

Thanks for clarifying this.

 

[Harriettehighpants]

Google won't display calls or messages only location activity and google functions as far as I'm aware. They know he messaged his sister and friend because they informed them far as I'm aware. He didn't search for Milne or Tallow beach. That he crosses the Oval at pace is bizarre and suggests several scenarios,
1. He's giving chase.
2 He's being chased and marvel St or Tennyson are not good options so he goes off road.
3 He's been contacted on WhatsApp to join someone on Tallow Beach but to hurry up? When he gets to Milne he goes into bush to avoid someone or he's following someone. (This is why reconstruction is so necessary to see how his phone is tracking)
If someone cheekily grabbed Theo's phone be might persue. The person may even give phone back having succeeded in getting Theo onto Tallow Beach and to Cosy Corner. He relaxes, messages his family/friends then locating Wake up he sets to crossing steep incline when he either drops phone or it is taken. He may have proceeded to keep going without it and we're not to know he didn't make it out of the Bush to the Rd and catch a ride.
Whatever, happened his decisions between CM's and CC were quick ones because little time is lost.

That's a very good point that he didn't search how to get to tallows or the milne track! He either used the track to get to tallows in the days leading up to his disappearance (have they released location information of his movements prior to the 31st?) Or he was with someone who knew where to go.

 

[Chiatos]

Hypothetical scenarios

Theo heads home to Wake Up from CMs via Tennyson Street, as an acquaintance said they’d be there (in a home or a car at the end of Tennyson or on the oval).

1. When Theo arrives the acquaintance tells him they need to get to the Milne Track quickly to catch a ride, go to a beach party or meet others. They run to the track and veer off just before the Tallow Beach car park to head for the sand. The mate may even have headed to the car park and told Theo to go wait on the beach. Theo hurried through the dense scrub on the track and comes out on the beach where he walks to the end to wait. He texts his sister Emma and watched part of a Belgium tv show before being interrupted or turning it off to conserve his battery. He wants to head home and google shows the exit is back along the beach. It’s now not safe to return the way he came in so he searches for an exit up or around the Cape. There’s none. There’s a scuffle and he drops his phone. He exits the place via the Tallow car park. His phone is retrieved the next day and destroyed.

OR

2. When Theo arrives at the end of Tennyson the acquaintance contacts him to say they are now at the Milne Track and to hurry up or he’ll miss out. Theo looks up directions to the Milne Track and runs there. He can’t find his mate, so he continues down the main track and then makes his way to the beach. The Tallows car park is close to him but he veers off on a dense bush track before it and ends up on the beach. If he was following google maps he’d know the car park is just ahead. He loses his cap whilst making his way through the thick scrub. He’s alone on the beach and walks to the end. His mate may have told him to wait at CC. He checks for how to get home and learns it’s back the way he came. He texts his sister Emma and watches part of a Belgium tv show while waiting on the beach. Company arrives and things turn scary. Theo drops his phone whilst searching for ways to escape around the headland because he can’t escape back down the beach. He eventually exits the place from the car park. His phone is retrieved the next day and destroyed.

problem: the acquaintance/mate would have to have made contact by phone and there’s to date no mention of any calls or messaging at Tennyson Street.

Theo could have entered Tennyson intentionally to pick up or join someone at the end of the road. From that point, they turn back together and head towards the beach and the gathering. There wouldn't have been any need to search for Milne track on his phone, because his was in company.

Are there no private cctv camera's in Tennyson?

His phone's last ping was round 1.30am?

 

[Rocket333]

Google won't display calls or messages only location activity and google functions as far as I'm aware. They know he messaged his sister and friend because they informed them far as I'm aware. He didn't search for Milne or Tallow beach. That he crosses the Oval at pace is bizarre and suggests several scenarios,
1. He's giving chase.
2 He's being chased and marvel St or Tennyson are not good options so he goes off road.
3 He's been contacted on WhatsApp to join someone on Tallow Beach but to hurry up? When he gets to Milne he goes into bush to avoid someone or he's following someone. (This is why reconstruction is so necessary to see how his phone is tracking)
If someone cheekily grabbed Theo's phone be might persue. The person may even give phone back having succeeded in getting Theo onto Tallow Beach and to Cosy Corner. He relaxes, messages his family/friends then locating Wake up he sets to crossing steep incline when he either drops phone or it is taken. He may have proceeded to keep going without it and we're not to know he didn't make it out of the Bush to the Rd and catch a ride.
Whatever, happened his decisions between CM's and CC were quick ones because little time is lost.

Great points that I didn’t think of.
He was lead to the Milne track on foot by another, or others, who knew how to jog there directly.
He went willingly because he knew them and felt safe.
He may left the bar first and waited for them, and caught up with them on Cowper Street or further towards Milne.
He’d been in town for around 48 hours, and had met a finite number of people at Wake Up, CMs and maybe elsewhere.
I bet the person or people he was with are locals he met at Cheeky Monkeys. I bet there’s also a girl or girls involved, not necessarily romantic but one/s he’d been having fun with.

 

[Rocket333]

Theo could have entered Tennyson intentionally to pick up or join someone at the end of the road. From that point, they turn back together and head towards the beach and the gathering. There wouldn't have been any need to search for Milne track on his phone, because his was in company.

Are there no private cctv camera's in Tennyson?

His phone's last ping was round 1.30am?

“Police are continuing to appeal for public assistance, to anyone who may have CCTV from surrounding areas from about 11pm on Friday 31 May 2019, or anyone with dashcam footage from Jonson or Tennyson streets to come forward.” 18/6/19 Search efforts move to lighthouse as inquiries to locate backpacker continue at Byron Bay

Last ping was at 1am.
Why were they including Tennyson Street so early on? Because he headed that way and they were just keeping it broad?

 

[Chiatos]

“Police are continuing to appeal for public assistance, to anyone who may have CCTV from surrounding areas from about 11pm on Friday 31 May 2019, or anyone with dashcam footage from Jonson or Tennyson streets to come forward.” 18/6/19 Search efforts move to lighthouse as inquiries to locate backpacker continue at Byron Bay

Last ping was at 1am.
Why were they including Tennyson Street so early on? Because he headed that way and they were just keeping it broad?

Sorry, I mixed up the last ping and the last message.
Last message: 1am
Last ping: 1.42 pm, June 1st.

Your question: By June 18th LE and Theo's family knew about his google-route and that he had entered Tennyson. Most probably the last images of Theo were (and still are) the ones we know in Kingsley.

 

[Watergate]

Great points that I didn’t think of.
He was lead to the Milne track on foot by another, or others, who knew how to jog there directly.
He went willingly because he knew them and felt safe.
He may left the bar first and waited for them, and caught up with them on Cowper Street or further towards Milne.
He’d been in town for around 48 hours, and had met a finite number of people at Wake Up, CMs and maybe elsewhere.
I bet the person or people he was with are locals he met at Cheeky Monkeys. I bet there’s also a girl or girls involved, not necessarily romantic but one/s he’d been having fun with.

I'm of the same thought. He had to be with people who knew the direct route else someone else googled tallow beach and they followed that.
Does crossing the oval come up on maps if you want to go to tallow walking on Google maps? If not he is fleeing or following /chasing someone local.

 

[Rocket333]

I'm of the same thought. He had to be with people who knew the direct route else someone else googled tallow beach and they followed that.
Does crossing the oval come up on maps if you want to go to tallow walking on Google maps? If not he is fleeing or following /chasing someone local.

Yes it does if you’re at the top of Tennyson crossing to Cowper.
Still intrigued by the jagged line on his oval path.