Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #1 *Arrests*

[e.l.l.a]

I feel as though this is a part of the problem though (for people to think of things the way you did in your post, E.l.la) . If Tia, and other children like Tia, are only destined to go on to lead a terrible life, then there is no point in trying to make a difference. If that is the sum of her value, then what is the point of looking for her if she goes missing, or trying to find the person responsible for her death?

No, I have been misunderstood (and that's okay). My sentiments are meant to be a COPING MECHANISM for those left behind. NOT as a way to treat Tiah (or others like her) when they are alive. So yes, There is PLENTY of point (in looking for missing children like her). There is point in looking for her because she is young, vulnerable and needs help. Standing back and not helping someone in trouble is abhorrent.

[with your sentiments then....] What is the point of a care system? Why bother trying to help any child in trouble?

Because children need help? The think I hate most in this world is SUFFERING. The care system is needed to give the best chance to those who need it. It is our duty of care to help our young, - to help anyone.

And further to this, when kids in care hear sentiments like this (as unfortunately they very often do) it only reinforces to them that they are not valued and should never bother trying for something more.

Well I'd never express sentiments like this except to older mature adults. And second, my sentiments are misunderstood as I don't mean to say she is not valued, - if she were alive, she is most definitely valued, and everything should be done to assist her in moulding her life to be a functional and happy one. But once she is dead, my focus is on reducing suffering for those who remain left behind (as Tiah's suffering is already ended). My focus and issue is ALWAYS with suffering and reducing suffering everywhere for humans. So rationalising that it *might* have been small mercy that her suffering was CAPPED at age 12, and not continued...is a way to relieve suffering in ones heart.

I have known many children in Tia's situation, and these children are amazing children, courageous children, beautiful children, children with dreams, children who somehow manage to survive all of the awful things that happen to them. Of course, they don't have it fair -- they are "labelled", they lose over and over, they carry the scars of their abuse forever. Now some of them will go on to function well in adult life. Some won't. But Tia will never find out, because someone stole that from her.

Agreed. Wholeheartedly.

I understand what you mean and empathise with it. I think we can all feel helpless. But there are a lot of things people can do. Become a foster carer. Join a program that supports at risk children. Teach your own children to be kind and accepting to their peers who are "different". Speak up when foster children are labelled as "feral". Help that struggling mum down the street. Report child abuse and domestic violence to authorities.

Most definitely. And I try to do this, in whatever capacity I can. My sentiment was never to do LESS towards children like this because they are "less than perfect". If anything, the urge is to do MORE. But once they have died, I try to look at the positives in order to reduce suffering to myself and any others left behind.

It is as though Tia mattered less because she was in foster care and the community expects that Tia and children like her will always be at risk. But Tia shouldn't matter less to us for being in care. She should matter more.

It seems that way, and that is why overhauls to the system have now been called. I'm not sure though if it's truly that she "mattered less" in the police's eyes. If so, they wouldn't be continuing with the investigation in the way they are now. I think it has to do with problems in legalities and privacy <modsnip> with all Foster Carers, and also the issue of if someone is a repeated runaway, then it makes sense to wait a few days before enacting a full response (this is purely because of resources, and is understandable for the police with their full schedule).

Anyway, I think Tiah's case can help us improve responses and protocols in future. This, at least, is something she has enabled and is a something good that can come of it.

 

[e.l.l.a]

I think thats a really sad way to think and a judgemental gross generalisation.No one knows what the future holds. People from 'good' families also have bad stuff happen.
Karlie had the Joy of her teenage years, playing sport, learning to drive, falling in love, holding her beautiful baby in her arms. Poor Tiahleigh has been hurt and left in the most awful way.
Just IMO

Yes that's true, but thinking that way only enhances pain and suffering for those left behind. That's okay if they choose and want to think that way (it is understandable and their choice). But for me, it would only enchance my suffering, so it is a coping mechanism to ease suffering. (and even quite a valid way of thinking as it's not inconceivable that her life may have been worse, later). My focus is on reducing suffering IN ALL AVENUES for those living, as life is full of so much suffering as it is. I realise my way of thinking is a bit unsusual (not completely, though, as many people DO do this to some extent - ie, people say "at least "so and so" is in peace now" etc), although I may take the sentiments a bit further than others. And that's okay too.

 

[pappa rob]

I live in Logan and yes you do. That library location is fairly open planned and wouldn't be crowded--Logan Libraries is actually one large library split over a number of small branches, and these branches share resources. All of these branches are relatively small buildings. The library staff would probably notice a teen truant. It is also next door to the Browns Plains Child Safety office so wouldn't be my choice if I was a child in care skipping school! Having said that, it's also opposite a large shopping centre and the internet is free.

Edit: If Tialeigh had a phone with wifi capability, I think there may be wifi available at that shopping centre as well as the nearby McDonalds.

Edit again: There is also free wifi at the library for patrons.

If I remember right she didn't have a phone otherwise locating her would of been a lot easier.

 

[possumheart]

I feel, sadly, that this case has strayed to value judgments of the victim who was very much a minor. I walked away from this forum yesterday feeling that one poster was almost insinuating that the perpetrator had done a community service.
When the tone returns to one of sympathy and finding that perpetrator I will feel more inclined to return to a sensitive discussion.

 

[e.l.l.a]

I feel, sadly, that this case has strayed to value judgments of the victim who was very much a minor. I walked away from this forum yesterday feeling that one poster was almost insinuating that the perpetrator had done a community service.
When the tone returns to one of sympathy and finding that perpetrator I will feel more inclined to return to a sensitive discussion.

I'm sorry you feel that way. We are all trying to grieve for our society, and our world, and individual people, in the way we can manage and to do so still with respect to all involved. We are all different. As long as we still speak with respect to all involved (and I do try to do that) then I think respectful conversation - although different - should be accepted. We all need to tolerate eachother's views even if we disagree with them. I am often misunderstood, and it often hurts me, but I am trying to be accepting of others' judgement too. Sometimes we construe someone's comments as insinuating something but we may be incorrect, - if we suspend judgement and try further to understand that poster's position or motivation, it may end up being different to what we originally thought. Really, we are all muddling through this life the best we can, and I hope we can all try to embrace eachother and our own ways of coping and making sense of things.

No matter what Tiah's life, her behaviour or conduct, she needed to be protected, as a minor, and taken seriously in her death. If we don't give value to all life, especially minors, then we are on a slippery slope to not protecting eachother or embracing all life.

I also think Tiah's behaviour or conduct is USEFUL in trying to help prevent things like this in future. If we can identify those who seem particularly troubled or likely to engage in risky behaviour, then we can help prevent them from coming to harm. We need to look at all aspects of a situation and draw the constructive aspects of it towards helping circumvent similar scenarios for others in the future. The focus should never be solely on punishment of the perpetrator, but in PREVENTION as well, both in terms of the victim's, and the perpetrator's PRIOR behaviour or conduct which are all part of the equation in leading to the event. I am very much for prevention of these scenarios, as the foremost goal.

 

[BreakingNews]

At my funeral I hope people say exactly what I was like - the good, the bad and the ugly. Not a load of rubbish.

I think sometimes people try to gloss over things to make the deceased look angelic. I actually liked the way TP was referred to as 'beautifully imperfect'. Seems like anyone who knew her would say she had problems and didn't always behave, so why say otherwise. I thought this was a lot more respectful than saying that she was angelic.

I once went to a funeral where the wife got up and said "I don't know why he was always angry. But he was". We all knew it and was good to have it acknowledged publically.

 

[they'll get you]

I feel, sadly, that this case has strayed to value judgments of the victim who was very much a minor. I walked away from this forum yesterday feeling that one poster was almost insinuating that the perpetrator had done a community service.
When the tone returns to one of sympathy and finding that perpetrator I will feel more inclined to return to a sensitive discussion.

Little Tiahleigh was a child of only 12 years old.
That age between a baby and an adult.
I was nuts when I was 12 and so were my children. Hormones!

I've looked at Tiahleigh's photos and ALL show me such a fresh open smile with soft honest eyes and always dressed to suit her age, a beautiful girl.

I worry that the children from her school were being cruel and her privacy was kept paramount.
What was the reason she didn't want to go to school.

I posted an MSM report were I wondered why negatives were said by a prior carer and why? T'was not warranted IMO.

 

[possumheart]

A fascination with, and academic background in Sociology is what makes Websleuths interesting to me &#8212; I can skim past posts with tolerance at the worst of times. Thank you for your words e.l.l.a
I have seen kids from solid middle-class backgrounds turn into non-contributing and acting-out adults, and descendants of the stolen generation with PhDs in Law. I find it hard to accept generalisations.

 

[possumheart]

Little Tiahleigh was a child of only 12 years old.
That age between a baby and an adult.
I was nuts when I was 12 and so were my children. Hormones!

I've looked at Tiahleigh's photos and ALL show me such a fresh open smile with soft honest eyes and always dressed to suit her age, a beautiful girl.

I worry that the children from her school were being cruel and her privacy was kept paramount.
What was the reason she didn't want to go to school.

I posted an MSM report were I wondered why negatives were said by a prior carer and why? T'was not warranted IMO.

Wasnt that the Daily Mail, though? Pfffffft

 

[possumheart]

Think back to Daniel Morecombe. Now consider that Tialeigh was one year younger than him. Yes, TGY, a baby. Maybe not in her own mind, but easy prey nonetheless.

 

[possumheart]

Little Tiahleigh was a child of only 12 years old.
That age between a baby and an adult.
I was nuts when I was 12 and so were my children. Hormones!

I've looked at Tiahleigh's photos and ALL show me such a fresh open smile with soft honest eyes and always dressed to suit her age, a beautiful girl.

What was the reason she didn't want to go to school..

She was meant to attend a performance that day. Nerves? Upset that her family and foster family weren't attending? Because it seems she wasn't on their radar for many hours! I don't know whether 'attend' means to 'participate in' ... or maybe she didn't make 'the cut'?

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/11/09/pupils-may-hold-clues-in-qld-murder-probe.html

 

[pukasonqo2]

She was meant to attend a performance that day. Nerves? Upset that her family and foster family weren't attending? Because it seems she wasn't on their radar for many hours! I don't know whether 'attend' means to 'participate in' ... or maybe she didn't make 'the cut'?

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2015/11/09/pupils-may-hold-clues-in-qld-murder-probe.html

attend means you are part of the audience, if she was taking part on the performance she would be participating in or performing in


lupus est *advertiser censored* homini, non *advertiser censored*, non quom qualis sit novit

 

[possumheart]

attend means you are part of the audience, if she was taking part on the performance she would be participating in or performing in


lupus est *advertiser censored* homini, non *advertiser censored*, non quom qualis sit novit

The question then would be whether or not the performance was on school grounds. It may have upset the day's flow and made it easier for her absence to go unnoticed. The more I read, the less I know.

 

[Karo]

Wasn't it a cheer leading event? Usually out of school hours.

 

[possumheart]

On Tuesday last week we had an incident where two youthsentered the school grounds without permission which led to alockdown for staff and students. This process occurred duringour lunch break and provided a strong test of the processes wehave in place to ensure the safety of our students at school. Theconcern for student safety was very quickly resolved thanks tothe work of our staff, and the police are following up with thepeople involved. This does provide another reminder howeverof the importance of practicing our emergency processes andenforcing our uniform policy, and I would assure all parentsthat we have strong processes in place to ensure a safe andenjoyable school environment for staff and students.

https://marsdenshs.eq.edu.au/Calendarandnews/Newsletters/Newsletters/newsletter-2015-09-15.pdf

 

[possumheart]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/lifes...oster-care-rules/story-fnihp1i6-1227608982847

 

[possumheart]

This Facebok page is approved by Tia's family and I am sure posting it here is not against TOS. I think it is a great legacy.
https://www.facebook.com/Missing-Children-Australia-Tiahleigh-Alert-1655909494625736/?ref=ts&fref=ts

 

[Bohemian]

No words for some of the comments on this thread; despite their justification they don't relieve my suffering at all.

Instead I'll quote 'John Coffey' for the second time today:

'I'm tired, boss. [...] Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly to each other. I'm tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world everyday. There's too much of it. It's like pieces of glass in my head all the time. Can you understand?'

- from 'The Green Mile'

 

[e.l.l.a]

No words for some of the comments on this thread; despite their justification they don't relieve my suffering at all.

Instead I'll quote 'John Coffey' for the second time today:

'I'm tired, boss. [...] Mostly I'm tired of people being ugly to each other. I'm tired of all the pain I feel and hear in the world everyday. There's too much of it. It's like pieces of glass in my head all the time. Can you understand?'

- from 'The Green Mile'

I remember that movie. It left a profound impact on many. True, kindness is something we can give to others daily, and is more valuable than people realise. It could make the difference between saving someone's life sometimes, or not. Sometimes I think those that make time to be kind are doing just as great work in our society as any professionals who have "important" jobs.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

I'm not saying this is linked but it may be of interest for several reasons, including the child protection worker quoted in the few articles for her.


Emmadilla Peacock-Lewis is 15 & went missing from Toowoomba on 28 Sept. I believe the first official public alerts, stating that Emma is missing & QLDpol are monitoring her fb account, were released 30 Oct.

The 42 yr old man who is suspected of being with Emma was himself reported missing the day after Emma's first public alert ie. 31 Oct.

31 Oct is of course also the day after Tia went missing.



http://mypolice.qld.gov.au/blog/2015/11/04/missing-people-toowoomba/


Edit : just found a 4 Nov article referencing concern over the delay for Tiah & stating Emma's first official alert was 29 Oct - over a month after she disappeared

http://www.news.com.au/national/que...-met-on-facebook/story-fnj4alav-1227604507028

& the child protection reference was to police child protection not state so no foster care background but a 4 week delay nonetheless?



Edit 2 : just to clarify, the 29th alert only mentioned Emma. An alert on the 31st identified him in connection for the first time & his parents reported him missing the same day when they'd been unable to contact him. From 28 Sept onward, police seem to have been acting on the assumption the pair were simply travelling to Tassie together, but this doesn't seem to be based on anything other than Tassie being the place his parents live.