Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #2 *Arrests*

[Kitsune]

While you are arguing the point of over sexualisation of our children in society - believe me it is endemic. Teachers, guidance officers and principals are continually dealing with the fall out from this - children are under real pressure. These 'relationships' between teenagers- underage teenagers. Parents condoning yes CONDONING 14 year old boys sleeping over with 13 year old girls (alone in their room), 14 year old girls experimenting with lesbian relationships and having 3 somes. The sexting and nude selfies that get posted on FB or snapchat (that parents don't get to see because they evaporate once they are viewed). The self harm and the psychological games that get played after the relationship ends badly ....

School's ban dances and free dress days simply because kids are wearing revealing and see through clothing and bring alcohol. The move of grade 7 to high school - worst move ever, the 11 year olds going on 12 are at the mercy of the attention of those no hoper 18 year olds that prey on their attention.:scared:

100% agree! Also the move of yr 7 to highschool has made these kids, not be seen as kids anymore by the highschoolers. They all attend the same school so therefore are just one of them. We also had a big school assembly that we had to attend, given by a police officer from task force Argos, a criminal defence lawyer and child physiologists all due to the state of teenagers today! I learnt alot from that assembly. IMO all talk of teenagers/society and foster care is relevant to Tiahleigh's case as it covers her age, TT age and the broken system of today's norms in attitude and foster care.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

100% agree! Also the move of yr 7 to highschool has made these kids, not be seen as kids anymore by the highschoolers. They all attend the same school so therefore are just one of them. We also had a big school assembly that we had to attend, given by a police officer from task force Argos, a criminal defence lawyer and child physiologists all due to the state of teenagers today! I learnt alot from that assembly. IMO all talk of teenagers/society and foster care is relevant to Tiahleigh's case as it covers her age, TT age and the broken system of today's norms in attitude and foster care.

What was their advice? Surely it wasn't to add to parent's worry and concern about the welfare of their children and nothing else. This state didn't happen overnight, it's always been in the decision making of the adults yet it's the children that suffer. We have the power to vote, to hold adults accountable, to protect the laws in place and educate.

I rarely like participating in these threads because emotions run high and a feeling of doom is very overpowering.

 

[possumheart]

What was their advice? Surely it wasn't to add to parent's worry and concern about the welfare of their children and nothing else. This state didn't happen overnight, it's always been in the decision making of the adults yet it's the children that suffer. We have the power to vote, to hold adults accountable, to protect the laws in place and educate.

I rarely like participating in these threads because emotions run high and a feeling of doom is very overpowering.

To elaborate: http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/...roes-of-task-force-argos-20151026-gkiy39.html

 

[PrimeSuspect]

To elaborate: http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/...roes-of-task-force-argos-20151026-gkiy39.html

Thanks poss, ARGOS does an amazing job and needs our full support and funding. As Hetty Johnston says, "They're watching over our kids every day and we don't even know they're there. They're the guardians of our children."

 

[Kitsune]

To elaborate: http://www.smh.com.au/good-weekend/...roes-of-task-force-argos-20151026-gkiy39.html

Thanks Possumheart The advice was basically be all over your child's phone/ipad/computer and ps4's and xbox one's. The advice to the children was, if you receive a pic, report it. Do not show a friend or send it too a friend as that is distribution. I am not ashamed to admit that I frequently "stalk/hack" all of my children's accounts. My job is to keep them safe not just from other people but also from themselves. You learn alot reading fb messages/insta messages/snapchat ( yes there is a feature that will keep the conversation). IMO perhaps if parents of Tiahleigh's friend's, read their messages, maybe they would of reported what was happening to child safety, I know I would of. The tragedy of what happened to Tiah, is beyond devastating. The only thing I hope is that her death will bring in changes, and that it may save another child. IMO with RT and TT in jail, the world is already slightly safer.

 

[Oz Jen]

ye gods, I just realised I've been clattering around webslueths for as long as Possumheart!!...

but there have been watershed moments.. Gittany's self propelled jump over his own court imposed balcony was one such moment, rendering him incontrovertibly guilty as charged.. the antics of Rachel Louise not withstanding, off he went in the divvy van, for life.

Gerard Baden-Clay was the dream killer if justice and it's working out was your thing. It is mine, so that murder, trial, appeal, trial, appeal and losing his appeal had everything necessary along with the bonus of Gerard's bone deep stupidity. It isn't often a murderer is as stupid, as determined to take the most stupid path as Gerard did, but there you are, he did and I am forever grateful. ..

I think the Stanford sentence will be interesting, and even I know that Vincent Stanford is not going to get what I think he should, but I am hoping it is at least rational. .. then there is Crazy Cardamone..... why he did what he did, and where he did it and when and what for and what possible defence he can come up with is the stuff of deep interest.

There are two other cases that have appalled, intrigued and disgusted me, yet the silence about them seems endless.. the girl in the suitcase, and the little mum in the Canberra forest... and the police man ( Randall , I think ) in Brisbane who's baby son died while he was in charge.. the Qld Police force seems to have thrown a huge blanket over this one.. not a whisper, not a peep not the tiniest of info has leaked out about these two crimes..

Waves to Trooper and Possumheart - Jason Downie the Kapunda killer brought me to WS over 4 years ago. Stayed on for Gittany, Stephanie Scott, William Tyrrell, Crafty Cardamone, Baden 'Koppers' Clay amongst others (roundabouts anyone?) - now here for Karen Ristevski and Tiahleigh.

 

[Oz Jen]

Wow, I just realised I have been on and off Websleuths for 4 and a half years!
In this time I have seen my share of petty banter; have only been threatened with time-out once; have been stimulated by the wonderful use of the English language by regular posters; have seen some amazing sleuthing; have empathised with and been greatful for our Police Force; have questioned 'The Law'; have had my doubts about legal people and the process; have wept with fellow sleuthers over my iPad; have lost sleep and my appetite sometimes; but most importantly whilst empathising with victims and their families and I have seen 'The Law' change.
JUSTICE FOR TIAHLEIGH.

:loveyou: What Possum said.

 

[Karo]

Yet not 1of the 3 has been charged as an accessory to the murder, this is puzzling.

yes I am well aware of that, which is why I said in my post, 'either Rick OR Trent told police.'.... it is one or the other, because that is the motive that police stated this murder was committed for., .. It would be radical to claim that the police made that idea up on the spur of the moment. It had to come from one or the other of them.

 

[Francesca]

I'm saying sex between 2 parties, both being underage and this happens all the time, but because both parties are underage, society sees no real issue with this, i do but society of today doesn't and i believe what is deemed acceptable in todays society that makes it happen even more. Take a moment, go onto youtube and see what, not only the youth of today are watching, but what they are posting themselves, and by the sounds of your posts i think you're going to be shocked and have a wake up call.

I don't know if YouTube is a valid reference, it's like watching a p*rn movie and saying it represents a normal relationship (There might be a better analogy!) YouTube is a platform for the unusual and the attention-hungry, it doesn't represent a typical group of teenagers, any more than it represents the best dancing or singing of today's society.
Im in my 40s now, but when I was 20, I went out for a while with a man who was 12 years older, and he had those same fixed ideas that I would have started having sex at about 14/ 15 because that's what he understood my age group did. I thought that was a ridiculous generalization then, and so I still think it's ridiculous to assume that "our" generation did it right, the previous generation was too narrow minded, and the upcoming generation is dangerously wild.

 

[Warshawski]

You can paint it any way you like but the facts speak for themselves, there are stats that show girls younger than 11 are sexually active by choice. Tiffany Taylor for example. Her 'boyfriend' was way older than her, where are the charges for sexual assault? She was 12, he was her carer, why no incest charges?
There are schools that have programs now for pregnant students, young parents and they are that young, sad but true.
Don't shoot the messenger, the poster above is obviously in the know.

Thanks Karo. Much as we may struggle with aligning our standards with what is happening these days, the fact is ' this stuff is happening'.

i meant to add on my earlier post thoughts re 'rape' and 'incest' and your comments reminded me.

absolutely one wonders why Tiffany's partner was not charged due to her age (do we know for sure he wasn't) but in my opinion it possibly would aquatint to a charge of 'carnal knowledge'.

it would not have been 'rape' since it was consensual, and it would not have been 'incest' since they were not related . Noting that IMO 'incest' charges can be brought upon, even in a consensual situation, since the familiaral relationship is seen as illegal due to the foetal abnormality impact on offspring. Also can be brought up in relationships of non-blood ie foster siblings.

I wonder if the charge of 'incest' on TT has been an initial charge easily applied due to the Facebook evidence, whilst they gather more...and more ... And more .......

 

[Warshawski]

I've sat back and watched this thread for a while but wanted to add.
Growing up as a ward of the state I was in both institutionalized care (2 different homes) and then was fostered by a relative at 13.

One of the group homes was fantastic and run by the government , the other the Salvation Army and was so strict and beatings occurred regularly . The in home foster care was a nightmare . I'm all for institutalised care if it's run properly .

Children in foster care have often been exposed to way more then they should . They often associate sex with love . They are often very sexually actively at a young age as they want to feel loved and wanted. The cretins in society know this and prey on these volnurable children and take advantage of them.

It's not until the foster children are older and realize with adult eyes looking back how bad the situations were .

The foster children don't report it as unfortunately to get justice ii is a long drawn out process and in Australia the court system is a joke and the perpetrator only gets a few years jail .

Just my 2 cents worth here 

Thanks for input Anonamouse, your 2 cents worth has much more value than that take care.

 

[Warshawski]

Show me where it states he was 18, she lived with them for 10 months prior to her disappearance, this would put him at 17 when she was living there and just turned 18 when she was murdered.

there is no reason to assume Tia was a willing and consensual partner to this sexual activity. She told a friend that Trent was continually groping her, and that she thought perhaps telling his mother might end it, apparently it didn't. She ran away 10 times in 10 months. .. doesn't sound like a crush to me. Sounds like a young child faced with horrible circumstances and doing what she could to end them. No where, anywhere, except in the imagination of those to whom the powerless girls struggle is somewhat titillating , can Tia be transposed into some sort of predatory sexual landmine ready made to explode the careers of young and snappy tapdancers, try as hard as one can, that one just isn't going to fly.

And she ended up dead. The ones who end up dead, are the ones who don't co-operate in this situation, generally. And the final word on the matter could go to Rick and Trent. She was murdered because she might have told authorities on what was going on, and both Trent and Rick knew what they were doing to Tia wasn't 'normal', right? . She was murdered so that people wouldn't know what abnormality his son had been up to, correct?.. isn't that the defence presented so far? .. If it wasn't normal, and if Rick and Trent didn't think and know it wasn't normal, her death is inexplicable. But it isn't, according to what either Trent or Rick told police, ... that Trent would be imprisoned for his illegal, abnormal, deviant sexual behaviour with Tia, and she was murdered to protect this deviant son from this consequence.

So.. .. what we know is, that both Rick and Trent were well aware of the consequences of their action.. And it is fair to say that Josh and Julene were well aware of the illegality and abnormality and deviance of their son and brother's actions. They perjured themselves, and tried to pervert the course of justice for the sole reason of protecting him from the consequences of this criminal activity. If they, as 'society' thought it was normal, why all this palaver? . why not do it on the main street, at high noon? .

Because they knew it was abnormal, they knew it was deviant, and they knew it was illegal. that's why. .

Hey Trooper, I don't think ANYONE here is giving an iota of normalacy or acceptance to what happened to Tia, nor to the actions of any member of that family.

As I see it, we are all shocked and appalled that a 12 year old child could be in this situation, could be left in this situation (in spite of what would suggest to us as being her many attempts at reaching out for help)

Yes, we are angry and upset for Tia and her family, we are p**#ed off that our hard-earned $$ go to a department with managers who seem to live in much more comfort that the Kids who's care they are charged with.

And IMO all here are united in our desire to see justice for all who failed in the protection of Tialeigh.

 

[Warshawski]

Could you be anymore on point? Wonderful, Trooper!

I'm at a loss why TT is being excused for the abuse he perpetrated on Tiah. It's coming across loud and clear to me that anyone over 18 is absolved of wrong doing because all the 11/12 year olds and younger are doing 'it' and it's society's fault.

i'm really confused PrimeSuspect. TT is being excused for his abuse of Tialeigh ?? He is in jail on charges, rightfully so IMO, so I am confused by your comments.

 

[Karo]

Qld laws about incest cover any relationship within a 'family role', so a foster situation involving a foster brother or a carer would be incest according to the law. A 12yo cannot legally consent to sex either, according to the law. Unfortunately Tia is not here, nor is Tiffany, to say what happened, so unless there is a confession or some DNA evidence, there may not be 'proof'

,

Thanks Karo. Much as we may struggle with aligning our standards with what is happening these days, the fact is ' this stuff is happening'.

i meant to add on my earlier post thoughts re 'rape' and 'incest' and your comments reminded me.

absolutely one wonders why Tiffany's partner was not charged due to her age (do we know for sure he wasn't) but in my opinion it possibly would aquatint to a charge of 'carnal knowledge'.

it would not have been 'rape' since it was consensual, and it would not have been 'incest' since they were not related . Noting that IMO 'incest' charges can be brought upon, even in a consensual situation, since the familiaral relationship is seen as illegal due to the foetal abnormality impact on offspring. Also can be brought up in relationships of non-blood ie foster siblings.

I wonder if the charge of 'incest' on TT has been an initial charge easily applied due to the Facebook evidence, whilst they gather more...and more ... And more .......

 

[Champaign]

I think it more likely Julene T or son of JT the son probably have spoken and told what they know. They are the ones who have been cooperating with police

Yet not 1of the 3 has been charged as an accessory to the murder, this is puzzling.

Originally Posted by Trooper
yes I am well aware of that, which is why I said in my post, 'either Rick OR Trent told police.'.... it is one or the other, because that is the motive that police stated this murder was committed for., .. It would be radical to claim that the police made that idea up on the spur of the moment. It had to come from one or the other of them.

 

[Warshawski]

the thing I find odd , is, there is no mention of drugs or alcohol in regard to this situation, this family, or Tia.. no claim or concern that drugs, and/or alcohol played any part in the life of these 5 people, Rick, Julene, Trent, Josh and Tia. Not a whisper of it. .. ..

According to statistics, this is a little bit unusual. Generally, alcohol , either in the perpetrator or the victim, or both , plays a big part and among teenage crime, both drugs (illegal and legal ) play a hefty part of the crime itself. ...

So in that respect, this is , if not wildly unusual, it is somewhat significant, statistically, that apparently these factors were not a part of the Thorburn's crime against Tia.

agreed Trooper that often we do hear that 'substances' have played a part in such crimes, however I don't find it odd that they haven't been reported as being involved here (mind you who knows what may yet come out). IMO, Rick was quite comfortable in 'taking what he wanted', he didn't need to be under any influence to name those demands. And if Trent grew up in that environment, then it would seem plausible that he would have had the same sense of entitlement.

A young girl girl would have no rights or recluse in a situation such as this place (IMO)

 

[Champaign]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/rende...t/news-story/cb3094595cd395c5e3eaf744433478dc

 

[PrimeSuspect]

i'm really confused PrimeSuspect. TT is being excused for his abuse of Tialeigh ?? He is in jail on charges, rightfully so IMO, so I am confused by your comments.

Don't mind me. It's just frustrating having to explain that children having sex at 11/12 yrs of age and younger, isn't condoned by the majority or considered normal. Once we've gone down that path and it's accepted without opposition, it's natural to follow that TT was somehow seduced by a child and it's society's fault. Can you see the blame shift? See riseabove80 post #665.

 

[madoodi]

I believe there is so much we do not know. I personally don't believe the words that have come out of any Thorburns' mouth. Poor Tia is not here to tell us her side of the story especially the situation with TT. But claims she had complained of him before her murder and the fact that she had run away a number of times and her not wanting to go back to their care the week before, paints a grim picture of the struggle she had been going through. It seems something sinister was going on and she was crying out for help. She was a vulnerable 12 year old child. When I was younger from about the age of 6-12 my friend was molested by a family member and only confided in me. She was petrified to tell her parents and I was petrified to betray her confidence. And both of us had tried to somehow cry out for help hoping someone would save my friend from her nightmares without the shame. She eventually broke her silence when we were about 16 and everyone was absolutely shocked. Kids may protest in indirect ways to cry out for help for a particular problem but may not be able to directly say what's bothering them.

It's my opinion that there is so much more to this horrible case. The motive for murdering Tia could be more sinister than what's alleged. RT is obviously a very sinister person with what has come out in the news of late and in my own opinion his motive was fuelled by more than just to protect his son.

I just hope that justice prevails. At the end of the day an innocent girl was murdered at the hands of a person meant to care for and protect her. This in my opinion can never be justified.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Don't mind me. It's just frustrating having to explain that children having sex at 11/12 yrs of age and younger, isn't condoned by the majority or considered normal. Once we've gone down that path and it's accepted without opposition, it's natural to follow that TT was somehow seduced by a child and it's society's fault. Can you see the blame shift? See riseabove80 post #665.

I honestly think people who say that stuff are in huge denial that they had a bad childhood because it means they have to confront who they are as an adult.