Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[SouthAussie]

Well,
I have been involved in this thread from the start.
I remember Police stated firmly it was a suicide pact.
And that family collected the bodies.

So,
Now they change their outlook?

With bodies buried
and
the apartment redecorated?
Somebody lives there now.

What can they find there as all clues have been removed?

The coroner will go through all the evidence, hear from witnesses, and make a determination. It could be an open finding, in that they can't be certain. Or it could be deemed suicide, or it could be deemed that they died at the hands of an unknown (or known) person.

If it was obvious there wouldn't need to be an inquest. The coroner would just sign off on their deaths as suicide, after reviewing the evidence.

imo

 

[acehard]

Well,
I have been involved in this thread from the start.
I remember Police stated firmly it was a suicide pact.
And that family collected the bodies.

So,
Now they change their outlook?

With bodies buried
and
the apartment redecorated?
Somebody lives there now.

What can they find there as all clues have been removed?

Isn't it too late?
There was time to investigate properly.

JMO

Same. I was following from the beginning and agree with you. I think a family member was financially supporting them and stopped a few months before their demise. They were living in fear during that period. It's a bit late to investigate now.

 

[branmuffin]

I do remember the autopsies found toxins in their bodies and the likely explanation was suicide which I believe was based on their erratic behavior for several months before their deaths. They thought someone was poisoning their food deliveries, they thought people were watching them, they became reclusive and stayed inside their apartment only leaving to pick up snacks from a close by gas station. All of those things combined with finding them dead definitely could point to some kind of psychosis both sisters experienced which resulted in their deaths by suicide.

However, when you consider the plight of many women who flee the countries that are well known to suppress women's freedoms and the active acts of tracking them down that people associated with the women who flee, it isn't beyond the scope of possibility that they were followed, they were threatened, there were attempts to kidnap them, to poison them, and if all that failed, to kill them. Honour beyond all, is the motivating factor in many of the deaths and disappearances of Muslim women from these countries.

And it doesn't just happen in Australia. In Canada we have had so many cases where women have been murdered by their own families, including younger brothers. These are families that seemingly integrated into our secular society, the kids going to school from a fairly early age. And yet only the girls are the ones that rebel against the suffocating circumstances of their faiths and freedoms while brothers, even those who grew up in Canada from a very young age, embrace the culture of suppressing not only their sisters, but their own mothers and have been implicated in their deaths or disappearances. It's still a real issue all over the world and I believe, not to zero in on Australia alone, but the governing parties would prefer to not get involved in international spats with the countries we are talking about.

 

[Via Marple]

I wonder how BBC got this "exclusive scoop" on an upcoming inquest, as it has not been reported elsewhere.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how BBC got this "exclusive scoop" on an upcoming inquest, as it has not been reported elsewhere.

If I had to guess, I would say from solicitor Alison Battison - who they have obviously spoken with in the article.

I looked a little further. Alison Battison is the Director Principal of Human Rights for All.

I would say that she is keeping an eye on these cases, and perhaps the BBC is a reputable media organisation who is at arms length from this situation. She may have contacts there.

Thank goodness there are organisations like hers ... because as @branmuffin said, I think our governments would like to sweep these cases under the rug.


Before establishing HR4A, Alison worked as a corporate lawyer for top tier firms in Australia, the UK and Indonesia. She has also worked with various volunteer organisations in Zimbabwe, Australia and the UK.

Alison has a Bachelor of Law (Hons) from the University of Sydney, a Bachelors of Asian Studies and Arts from the Australian National University, a Post Graduate Certificate in Law from the University of London and a Masters of Law (Human Rights and Social Justice) from the University of New South Wales (UNSW).

About Us | Human Rights for All

How HR4A began, our founder, board and team members

www.hr4a.com.au

 

[acehard]

From the archived article June 2023 New insights into tumultuous months leading to mysterious deaths of Saudi sisters

“There was a stream of money coming to them from their (family) that stopped in February,” the source told the publication.

“Now, we don’t know why it stopped, but it seems there had been some sort of a fall out with their family overseas.

“After that, they cut off communications with everybody.”

The last payment the sisters received was more than $4,400 on February 3.

The Daily Telegraph also revealed evidence submitted to the coroner note police do not consider the deaths to be suspicious and traces of toxic substances had been found in an inconclusive toxicology report.

Sources added police strongly believe the sisters acted on a suicide pact.

Authorities believed the Alsehli’s had been dead at their apartment for about a month before they were discovered in June due to the severity of their decomposition.

They were discovered by officers from the Sheriff's Department who attended after the pair accumulated $5,000 of unpaid rent.

 

[SouthAussie]

Putting the following info together seems to show that the cause of death has likely not been determined.
The Coroner does not have to have an inquest for suicide where the cause of death has been determined.

It could be that the month that passed before the girls were discovered made the cause unable to be determined.
The police might think it was suicide, but perhaps they can't identify how. So it needs to be investigated in an inquest - according to the law.


Coroners must hold an inquest when the deceased person is not identified, when the cause of death is not determined, when the person died as a result of a homicide, or if the person died in or attempting to escape from police custody.
Inquests & coronial records guide - NSW

Doctors, healthcare professionals, emergency service workers and police are under a statutory obligation to report the following deaths to the Coroner:

• the death was violent or unnatural (for example, homicide, suicide, drug, alcohol and poison related deaths)

When a death must be reported to the Coroner - Coroners Court NSW

 

[Witness 28]

I remember that they thought they were being poisoned. I wonder if their autopsies found anything identifiable in their systems. If they were able to have autopsies. I don't recall reading anything about that. Does an autopsy require a family's permission in a situation like that?

ETA: Just had a quick look, they did have autopsies. Toxins were found. It was police speculation that it was suicide, not a definite.

What Really Happened In The Murder Case Of Sydney's Saudi Sisters?

Six years after sisters Asra and Amaal Alsehli fled Saudi Arabia for a life of liberty in Australia, they were found dead in their Sydney apartment. With so much to live for, questions are now being asked about what really happened. By Michael Crooks

www.marieclaire.com.au

Hi SouthAussie,
great article thank you

 

[Rita7]

JMOO: As the cause of girl's deaths is undetermined it could be ether suicide (murder/suicide) or homicide (so-called honor killing, which is still common in patriarchal Islamic societies.)

 

[Witness 28]

JMOO: As the cause of girl's deaths is undetermined it could be ether suicide (murder/suicide) or homicide (so-called honor killing, which is still common in patriarchal Islamic societies.)

Hi Rita7:
Both sisters died in separate rooms, I believe one of the crosses around the neck of know of the sisters was ripped off and left in the hallway, if it was suicide you think they want to go together, weather the police or even the coroner have the courage if it was not suicide to cause a diplomatic incident if they say murder, both sisters we're very afraid of something and feared for their lives, honour killings around the world have taken beautiful people away who only wanted to be happy and safe .
You just have to read from different stories around the world of family seeking revenge and seeking honor because a human being ,only wanted to be happy and free , females are not safe in Australia or any other country, because husbands boyfriends kill them ,it's not a nice world for being a female .

The Price of Using Social Media in Saudi Arabia

After her sister was murdered, one Saudi woman tried to get justice online only to be silenced at every turn.

www.elle.com

 

[JLZ]

I believe one of the crosses around the neck of know of the sisters was ripped off and left in the hallway

Do you have a link to support that, please?

 

[Witness 28]

Do you have a link to support that, please?

Hi JLZ,
Two abc journalist reported two crucifix on the bedroom carpet.
Mahmood Fazal and Rachel Brown link below

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JLZ]

Hi JLZ,
Two abc journalist reported two crucifix on the bedroom carpet.
Mahmood Fazal and Rachel Brown link below

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

I did remember the crucifixes but I thought they were found in a suitcase. Could be my memory getting creative. Also I didn't make the connection that the crucifixes were things to be worn. Thanks for your explanation and link.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

Two crucifixes were found in a Canterbury apartment where Saudi sisters Asra Abdullah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal Abdullah Alsehli, 23, were found dead in June, a worker with access to the apartment has told the ABC.

The discovery was made after the women's bodies were removed.

The worker told the ABC that the crucifixes were found on the floor of one of the bedrooms.

The ABC could not independently corroborate this claim.

 

[dotr]

Aug 2022 rbbm

'Very, very scared': Sources describe interactions with Saudi sisters in months before 'unusual' deaths

The women are believed to have died about a month before their bodies were found in June in a Sydney apartment.

www.abc.net.au

''In June, the bodies of the women were found naked and in separate beds.

This prompted the apartment's building manager Michael Baird to dismiss suicide as a potential cause of death.

"Two young women do not commit suicide together unless they're doing it together. They don't get naked, they don't go to separate rooms, they don't die separately," he said.
Police say they have not yet ruled out homicide or suicide as their investigations continue.''

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wouldn't rule out suicide even if they were found in separate beds and/or separate rooms.
Maybe they wanted to end their life in the comfort and familiarity of their own bed in their own room.

If I had to go I'd like it to be in my own bed, in my own room.

I actually haven't ruled anything in or out.

 

[Dotta]

From the start I was suspicious.
I even suspected the guy who got restricting order by Court.

Then,
all the reports by Police said suicide.

And now this.
Again suspected homicide.

I don't think we will ever know the truth.

All clues in the apartment are destroyed.
It was redecorated and rented.

These poor girls
So young, beautiful and nice.

Rest in Peace at last.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

In some cases, where rooms had been redorated and new carpet put in they were able to find faint blood stains underneath the newer carpet.

Yes Rest in Peace Sweet Girls.