Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #7

[SouthAussie]

There is a whole article here about Tostee's lawyer .... he is a very big hotshot, and an ex-prosecutor ... from NZ originally.


"When accused Tinder killer Gable Tostee became overnight the most hated man in Australia, he turned to a former hotshot Kiwi lawyer with a reputation for defending the indefensible.

Before he became one of Australia's most high profile criminal defence barristers, and one of its sharpest legal minds, Holt spent nearly a decade prosecuting murderers, drug dealers and ne'er do wells as a Crown lawyer in Palmerston North.

Quick on his feet and with the most silver of tongues, he prosecuted almost 200 jury trials in Palmerston North and knew exactly what to say to the 12 captives casting judgment on one of their peers.

In 2012, he was made chief counsel at Victoria Legal Aid and appointed Victorian Law Reform Commissioner.

In 2012, at the age of 37, Saul was one of the youngest lawyers to be appointed as Senior Counsel, Australia's term for a Queens Counsel.

In a valedictory feature on Holt a decade ago, former Manawatu Standard editor Michael Cummings described him as a "cocky little bugger", albeit one who had reason to be so."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/853...precocious-former-palmerston-north-prosecutor

 

[Elde Fruit]

I really don't care that it was not brought up at trial. Or that nobody SAW him doing this. What I was doing with that post -- for the benefit of those who think this may have happened -- was providing elements of the witness statements and recording that support it, and providing a potential time frame in which he could have done so.

Fair enough, but of little assistance to determining what the Jury might conclude, given your suggestion is simply not asserted by the Prosecution. The Crown has a duty to inform the Defence what case it is running against the accused, so as to narrow the essential issues for Defence to meet and for the Jury to determine. That is done in the interests of Justice. The Crown is not entitled to simply charge someone, produce miscellaneous evidence, and then ask the Jury to cobble together some sort case against the accused. It does not work that way.

 

[Elde Fruit]

Tostee must have put W over the balcony railing because the neighbour had said that her feet were facing outward & her back was against the building...How could she have placed herself in that position with her feet facing outward...impossible...Then the neighbour saw her twisting & turning from that moment, when she must have lost her balance & fallen to her death....MOO

I think you must be referring to what the neighbour witness Ellis said. The MSM reporting of her evidence is very confusing. I'd love to see the actual Court transcript of that evidence. But I doubt it was to the effect you outlined as if it was, the Prosecutor would have been emphasising it over and over. The Police re-enactment photo show the feet pointed inwards.

 

[SouthAussie]

Fair enough, but of little assistance to determining what the Jury might conclude, given your suggestion is simply not asserted by the Prosecution. The Crown has a duty to inform the Defence what case it is running against the accused, so as to narrow the essential issues for Defence to meet and for the Jury to determine. That is done in the interests of Justice. The Crown is not entitled to simply charge someone, produce miscellaneous evidence, and then ask the Jury to cobble together some sort case against the accused. It does not work that way.

It is what we do here. Theorise.

As you can tell, not too many people believe Tostee's whole story - not even the people that think he may go free.

 

[Estelle]

1.48am: Female asks if she can go over to the window and have a look. The male says: 'Don't jump off or anything'.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-final-struggle-plus-happened-afterwards.html

Why are people saying he wouldn't have known she'd go over when it was clearly the first thing he thought of?

Good point. I have been saying this. HE HAD BEEN IMPLANTING THE IDEA INTO HER (SUBCONSCIOUS MIND AT LEAST) MIND ALL NIGHT

 

[Ausgirl]

Fair enough, but of little assistance to determining what the Jury might conclude.

,

AND I clearly stated -- this was not my purpose in posting it.

 

[Estelle]

lol Estelle, your latest post is much much easier on the ole eyes, thanks for reposting.

I think you mean Ausgirl.

 

[Elde Fruit]

 

[Ausgirl]

The Police re-enactment photo show the feet pointed inwards.

ONE picture of the re-enactment was published. It was NOT based on Ellis' statement.

It was based on the neighbour above, who didn't emerge onto her balcony until a split second before the fall. Ie, she did not see what Ellis saw.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think you must be referring to what the neighbour witness Ellis said. The MSM reporting of her evidence is very confusing. I'd love to see the actual Court transcript of that evidence. But I doubt it was to the effect you outlined as if it was, the Prosecutor would have been emphasising it over and over. The Police re-enactment photo show the feet pointed inwards.

BBM

In an affidavit filed to the Queensland Supreme Court by Gable Tostee's lawyers during his bail application, Emily Ellis, who lived below Gable Tostee's 14th floor apartment, provides a graphic re-enactment of 26-year-old Ms Wright's fatal plunge.

'We were trying to look out. We said 'it's right above us, there's something going on right above us here" ... because you could hear her. she was trying to get away, there was a lot of movement.

'We were trying to see what was going on and because of what we could hear I looked over and as I looked over ... I've said to Ryan ... "Oh God, she's coming over, she's coming over the balcony".

'I've said to [Ryan] "I don't, l don't know what, what is she doing? Like I don't know what she's doing".

'Cause I couldn't work out the logic of why she was the way she was. All I could see, cause I'm quite short ... I could see the bottom of her feet.

'I couldn't work out what why or what she was doing ... and she wasn't gripping either, she wasn't on a ledge, so um her feet were dangling. I couldn't work out, is she trying to get down, or was she trying to get somewhere else?

'And then by the time I've tried to work out what she was doing, was she trying to get down to another level or where she was going, um, she was gone, she'd fallen, she, there was just shock in her voice.'

She described seeing 'the bottom of her feet, and um, her toes'. 'I thought she was wearing shoes, but I think stockings.

'I'm pretty sure it was stockings ... I've run it over ... through my head. I had said "she's coming over" and then her feet are there and it was as if she was trying to do something, get down.

'She wasn't trying to do anything significant to make her ... I don't know if it was just a miss-grab. I don't know what she's done to [snaps fingers] fall.'

'When she was coming down ... she started twisting herself.

'I did see a lot of her body which alerted me, like she's coming out on the edge. I don't know what she was thinking because ... her feet were coming towards me first, it wasn't as if she was crouching or anything .

'Her legs were there first ... it wasn't a lowering or a gentle, cautious ... she wasn't hanging on, she wasn't facing that way ... she wasn't facing that way to hold on.'

She said Warriena's 'feet were dangling' and 'facing out' from the apartment wall .......... said Ms Wright had been 'flush against the building'.

'I couldn't see her upper body at all and she was out like that and um her legs had reached that point. I couldn't see her upper body and that's why I turned and said "I don't know what she's doing" because I was trying to work out is she trying to lower herself that way?'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-police-witness-saw-feet-dangling-above.html

 

[sosocurious]

I think you must be referring to what the neighbour witness Ellis said. The MSM reporting of her evidence is very confusing. I'd love to see the actual Court transcript of that evidence. But I doubt it was to the effect you outlined as if it was, the Prosecutor would have been emphasising it over and over. The Police re-enactment photo show the feet pointed inwards.

Maybe there was more than one photo of the re-enactment.
Not all with feet pointing inward.:dunno:
I wonder if she had bare feet?
So many unanswered questions.

 

[Estelle]

I really don't care that it was not brought up at trial. Or that nobody SAW him doing this. What I was doing with that post -- for the benefit of those who think this may have happened -- was providing elements of the witness statements and recording that support it, and providing a potential time frame in which he could have done so.

I find the timing Ellis described is of interest: she heard "let me go home" and then saw feet facing OUT. Not standing on a ledge but 'hanging'.

Also, the "feet outward" right before she looks away to her friends, which is about the time she heard "Let me go home". (and it's here that I have questions regarding what Ellis heard and when)

Ellis ONLY saw Warriena's FEET in that first brief sighting..... because Ellis is SHORT, she says, and could not see the "upper half" of Warriena at all.

Ellis describes her utter confusion several times, over HOW a person could be "climbing' in that position, because Warriena's feet POINTED OUT and on a position that clearly indicated her back was AGAINST THE WALL of the balcony.

Then she looked away. Looked back and THEN saw Warriena "climbing" and "twisting" around the other way so her feet faced IN.

--- and that COMBINED with the contents of the tape AND Tostee's previous behaviour of terrorising a girl by lifting her up on the balcony, make me think it's VERY possible he did it again, to Warriena in that minute and a bit he was out there WITH her.

Police/prosecutors might leave stuff like this out of a trial because it is too circumstantial, or for any number of reasons. That does NOT mean WE can't explore it as a possibility, and a very very real one.

FEET OUTWARD - now how would she get her feet outward unless Tostee placed her in such a position? As Ms Ellis said she was flush to the wall so you would have to hold on with hands going backwards which is very difficult.

 

[Aglaia]

That photo of her feet is just one screen
The witness is saying her feet faced outwards, then twisted around
A video of the reenactment would be much more helpful than 1 pic.

I wonder if there was 1 handprint because GT was holding her by one hand/arm?

 

[sleepinoz]

Maybe there was more than one photo of the re-enactment.
Not all with feet pointing inward.:dunno:
I wonder if she had bare feet?
So many unanswered questions.

Her shoe's were inside near the lounge - The black ones behind the coffee table

His are on the balcony

 

[Elde Fruit]

It is what we do here. Theorise.

I've noticed, and that is combined with a fair bit of poetic licence with established facts. There's a lot of assumption in the mix which can be innocently misleading to a casual reader.

 

[Elde Fruit]

Her shoe's were inside near the lounge

No, on the balcony.

 

[Strangeworld]

There is a whole article here about Tostee's lawyer .... he is a very big hotshot, and an ex-prosecutor ... from NZ originally.


"When accused Tinder killer Gable Tostee became overnight the most hated man in Australia, he turned to a former hotshot Kiwi lawyer with a reputation for defending the indefensible.

Before he became one of Australia's most high profile criminal defence barristers, and one of its sharpest legal minds, Holt spent nearly a decade prosecuting murderers, drug dealers and ne'er do wells as a Crown lawyer in Palmerston North.

Quick on his feet and with the most silver of tongues, he prosecuted almost 200 jury trials in Palmerston North and knew exactly what to say to the 12 captives casting judgment on one of their peers.

In 2012, he was made chief counsel at Victoria Legal Aid and appointed Victorian Law Reform Commissioner.

In 2012, at the age of 37, Saul was one of the youngest lawyers to be appointed as Senior Counsel, Australia's term for a Queens Counsel.

In a valedictory feature on Holt a decade ago, former Manawatu Standard editor Michael Cummings described him as a "cocky little bugger", albeit one who had reason to be so."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/853...precocious-former-palmerston-north-prosecutor

BBM
:silly:

 

[Amee]

No, on the balcony.

they are GTs shoes!! Rries are by the coffee table .Must you disagree with everything far out!!

 

[Ausgirl]

I've noticed, and that is combined with a fair bit of poetic licence with established facts. There's a lot of assumption in the mix which can be innocently misleading to a casual reader.

So how do --you-- theorise the means by which she came to be dangling, back to the wall, feet facing out?

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe there was more than one photo of the re-enactment.
Not all with feet pointing inward.:dunno:
I wonder if she had bare feet?
So many unanswered questions.

'I thought she was wearing shoes, but I think stockings.
'I'm pretty sure it was stockings ... I've run it over ... through my head.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...l-police-witness-saw-feet-dangling-above.html