Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #7

[Estelle]

Thank you for your mammoth typing effort JCB, but even a thesis could not convince me that GT is not an incredibly flawed and DANGEROUS human being. And I have no doubt that his actions convinced Warriena that he is. And her reaction to this realisation resulted in her ultimate tragic end.
Just my opinion, of course.

This case reminds me a little of the Oscar Pistorius case - enabling family and friends, police let him off (with written apologies in this case), alcohol problems, likes speeding, narcissistic, thinks he is God's gift to women, does not respect women, thinks he can lie and get away with everything and a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[sosocurious]

......and her clothing. She would have had to walk home the 24mins to her hotel topless as some say she was half naked. What woman would want to do that at 2.30am in the morning. He had no right hiding/stealing those things from Rrie.

Her blood-covered jeans were split on one side and covered in white powder from where she'd touched the outside of the building, the court heard.

http://www.theage.com.au/queensland/why-does-this-keep-happening-to-me-tostee-20161011-gs0401.html

 

[Makara]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 13

Holt says the fact that she doesn't stop to assess her situation, that she climbs over a 14th floor balcony, shows how irrational.

But

Holt says "please" don't convict #tostee of murder or manslaughter because he had pizza.
0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 13

Holt says the fact that #tostee found Warriena's phone in his pocket, then calls it twice, is evidence of shock if ever there was.
0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou Oct 13

Holt says #tostee left the building, wandered around. He didn't run. Says this is consistent with shock.

https://twitter.com/KateKyriacou

Oh lordy

Thanks Soso.

BBM: So Holt is a doctor in his spare time? He can diagnose shock from a recording and CCTV footage?

Holt blatantly lied to the court in his summing up but I guess that's what defence lawyers do. Hopefully the jury will deliberate on the facts at hand and not the lies Holt tried to plant into their heads.

 

[sosocurious]

Thanks Soso.

BBM: So Holt is a doctor in his spare time? He can diagnose shock from a recording and CCTV footage?

Holt blatantly lied to the court in his summing up but I guess that's what defence lawyers do. Hopefully the jury will deliberate on the facts at hand and not the lies Holt tried to plant into their heads.

Yes, Yes and yes.

 

[insidecircle]

There is just no way possible that he can be convicted of murder. Even manslaughter - would a reasonable person forsee that somoene would attempt to climb down from a 14th floor balcony? I don't believe so. How this has even gone to trial is beyond me.

 

[Makara]

Thanks Ausgirl. Reading all of that again only confirms my opinion that Tostee did dangle Warriena over the balcony.

 

[Estelle]

Let me go home, Just let me go home. I would but you have been a bad girl.
Metal screwing or unscrewing before he left the apartment. Any ideas??
imo

I must admit that I am suspicious of Tostee as he was not cross-examined. So IMO he could have changed the crime scene and unscrewed the telescope himself otherwise why not leave it there where it was for the police to find. Why would he have screwed it back on? Did she actually pick up something else and he wanted everyone to believe that it was part of the telescope and he made sure of the heavy sound of something else dropping himself. Also I think he threw most of those "rocks" around later. How many can we hear on the tape?

 

[possumheart]

Poss can you please point me in the direction to find that? I am not asking because I am making you a secretary or having a go at you , I unfortunately/fortunately didn't get to hear all the audio only what has been posted by media. TIA

2.19am: Movement and rustling and sounds of female calling out. Sound consistent with door unlocking. Female states, 'No'. Possible sound of glass door being hit.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-plus-happened-afterwards.html#ixzz4NDeUa4u8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I must have heard it about there on the tape.

 

[Makara]

There is just no way possible that he can be convicted of murder. Even manslaughter - would a reasonable person forsee that somoene would attempt to climb down from a 14th floor balcony? I don't believe so. How this has even gone to trial is beyond me.

Welcome insidecircle. Yes, your opinion has been stated ad nauseum in many, many previous posts. Have you listened to Tostee's tape of the evening Warriena died?

We have a poll thread available if you'd like to submit your opinion of what the outcome will be of this trial.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Warriena-Wright-Trial&p=12868774#post12868774

 

[insidecircle]

Welcome insidecircle. Yes, your opinion has been stated ad nauseum in many, many previous posts. Have you listened to Tostee's tape of the evening Warriena died?

We have a poll thread available if you'd like to submit your opinion of what the outcome will be of this trial.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Warriena-Wright-Trial&p=12868774#post12868774

Yes - I have followed every aspect of the trial. I noted that your opinion is that Tostee dangled her over the balcony. Note that neither side are stating that this occurred or arguing that it occurred - it is irrelevant. Where are you getting this idea from?

 

[Makara]

Yes - I have followed every aspect of the trial. I noted that your opinion is that Tostee dangled her over the balcony. Note that neither side are stating that this occurred or arguing that it occurred - it is irrelevant. Where are you getting this idea from?

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The same as you are entitled to yours.

 

[Ausgirl]

Could a mod please delete the mangled post above, due to formatting malfunction? TIA, and here's the repost:





Okay... first up, I'm not linking any of the below, because it's already been extensively linked here- links can also be easily found by simply googling any of the sentences.


I have mashed up a variety of reports into a VERY rough chronology of the final few seconds of Warriena's life and what the witnesses saw and heard -- and when, in an effort to ascertain whether it is POSSIBLE Tostee could have dangled Warriena over the rail in a bid to terrorise her, before closing the door and leaving her to her fate.


Of importance here is that Ms Ellis seems to have glimpsed Warriena's feet facing 'outwards' from the building, a short time before Warriena 'twisted' around and then dangled lower (as in the re-enactment pic taken from the unit immediately below Tostee's, in support of Ms Collyer-Wiedner's evidence).


Ms. Ellis states she saw these feet turned outward, and could not understand HOW a person could be in that position... then looked away to call her friends Nick and Ryan over.... and when she looked back, Warriena started "twisting" around and then "dangling" as seen by Ms Collyer-Wiedner (who seems to have come out right before the fall).


Also of importance is the order of sounds reported. Warriena can be heard screaming "Let me go home" BEFORE Tostee shuts the door. As has been mentioned on WS several times now, during the "no,no,no" 33 times portion of the recording, the background sounds support Tostee's being some ways out on the balcony with Warriena at that time.

She screams "Let me go home" - as heard by Ellis, about the time Ellis glanced up to see "feet facing outward".



Female: "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just let me go home."

Male: "I would but you have been a bad girl." Sounds are then heard of the door slamming shut. Police allege Mr Tostee has gone inside and left Ms Wright on the balcony.


Female: "Just let me go home. Just let me go home."

2.21am: Female's final words are "Just let me go home". Faint screaming is heard.'


I would really, really love to ask Ms Ellis whether she heard any "no,no" as those feet appeared, or a split second before. Because there's a couple of seconds between the 1st


"Let me go home" and Tostee running to the door to slam it and lock it. In this time, he says the "but you've been a bad girl" line before that. He's had a full minute of time out there with her, during which we can hear 33x "no,no,no" -- but it's not til after that moment where she says "Let me go home" that he bolts for the door.


Was this the moment Ms Ellis called out to her friends *immediately* after she saw Warriena's feet facing "the wrong way" for climbing? Did Tostee get a fright (on hearing the neighbours below..) while he was terrorising Warriena by hanging her over the raill, put W down and bolt for the door?


Ms Ellis could really help clear that up.


Relevant msm excerpts:


2.20am - Door unlocks and then female states: "No". Sound of the glass door possibly being hit.

2.20am - Male: "Who the f--- do you think you are? Hey?"

Female: "No, no, no. No! no, no, no."

Male: "You tried to kill me huh? Well why did you try and hit me with that huh? Shut your filthy mouth."

Female (screaming): "No, no, no, no, no."

Male: "It's all on recording you know. It is all being recorded."

Female: "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just let me go home."

Male: "I would but you have been a bad girl." Sounds are then heard of the door slamming shut.

Police allege Mr Tostee has gone inside and left Ms Wright on the balcony.


Female: "Just let me go home. Just let me go home."


2.21am: Female's final words are "Just let me go home". Faint screaming is heard.

MSM 'chronology':


---We were trying to look out. We said 'it's right above us, there's something going on right above us here" ... because you could hear her. she was trying to get away, there was a lot of movement.

--- We were trying to see what was going on and because of what we could hear I looked over and as I looked over ... I've said to Ryan ... "Oh God, she's coming over, she's coming over the balcony". 'I've said to [Ryan] "I don't, l don't know what, what is she doing? Like I don't know what she's doing". 'Cause I couldn't work out the logic of why she was the way she was. All I could see, cause I'm quite short ... I could see the bottom of her feet.

--- She described seeing 'the bottom of her feet, and um, her toes'. 'I thought she was wearing shoes, but I think stockings. 'I'm pretty sure it was stockings ... I've run it over ... through my head. I had said "she's coming over" and then her feet are there and it was as if she was trying to do something, get down.


--- 'Her legs were there first ... it wasn't a lowering or a gentle, cautious ... she wasn't hanging on, she wasn't facing that way ... she wasn't facing that way to hold on.'


--- "She wasn't gripping either, she wasn't on a ledge, so, um, her feet were dangling. I couldn't work out, is she trying to get down, or was she trying to get somewhere else?


---- The police then repositioned the female officer re-enacting Ms Wright's fall, so that her 'feet were pointing away from the building, her back was towards the building ... and she was a little bit lower'. Ms Ellis agreed that the female officer was in the right position and said Ms Wright had been 'flush against the building'.

'I couldn't see her upper body at all and she was out like that and um her legs had reached that point. I couldn't see her upper body and that's why I turned and said "I don't know what she's doing" because I was trying to work out is she trying to lower herself that way?'


---- Ms Ellis says of Ms Wright's descent, 'When she was coming down ... she started twisting herself. 'I did see a lot of her body which alerted me, like she's coming out on the edge. I don't know what she was thinking because ... her feet were coming towards me first, it wasn't as if she was crouching or anything .


----- From his balcony on the 12th floor, Nick Casey looked up to see Ms Wright hanging over Tostee’s balcony, and tried to yell to her to climb back over. “I heard her say, ‘I want to go home’, I heard her say, ‘help’ and at that point I said to her, ‘go back inside’ and it wasn’t long after that she fell,” he said. “She fell straight past where I was standing on the balcony and ricocheted off a few balconies below us and kept going to the ground.”

----- Retiree Gabriele Collyer-Wiedner, who lives directly under Tostee, woke around 2am to what sounded like furniture crashing on the floor. “After a little time there was a really loud bang from the unit above. It sounded like something really heavy being dropped on the floor,’’ she said. “A short time after that I heard a female person shout the words ‘no, no, no’.”


---- She’d gone to bed about 11pm but woke at 2am to sounds of banging, furniture moving and the sound of something heavy hitting the ground. “Then I heard the female voice screaming ‘no’ in panic, ‘no’!” a tearful Ms Collyer-Wiedner said. “And then I heard a male noise, but I couldn’t understand. I got up. I wanted to check 100 per cent the noise is coming from upstairs.” Ms Collyer-Wiedner told how she opened the sliding door and saw legs dangling from the balcony above.


--- Ms Collyer-Wiedner told police she stepped out to the balcony to see two legs dangling down. “The person did not say anything and neither did I,” she said. “In a matter of seconds I saw the person fall from the balcony above mine … I screamed when the person was falling and I think that the person screamed as well.”

 

[barcode]

spelling

 

[insidecircle]

It's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. The same as you are entitled to yours.

Of course. Just wondering which piece of evidence it is based off?

 

[possumheart]

Yes - I have followed every aspect of the trial. I noted that your opinion is that Tostee dangled her over the balcony. Note that neither side are stating that this occurred or arguing that it occurred - it is irrelevant. Where are you getting this idea from?

Witness statements. If you take time to read them, they are illuminating. Unless, of course, one heard them first hand in court.

 

[Makara]

Of course. Just wondering which piece of evidence it is based off?

The testimony of eye Witnesses and Tostee's tape.

 

[Elde Fruit]

What is your authority for the proposition that there is a requirement for an "imminent threat" - the hallmark of manslaughter is the unlawful killing of another without the intent element - if his actions have CAUSED WW's death (they need not be the only cause) he is very much guilty of manslaughter IMO -

That was addressed at JCB but I'll offer:

Criminal Code 1899 - SECT 303

303 Definition of manslaughter 303 Definition of manslaughter

A person who unlawfully kills another under such circumstances as not to constitute murder is guilty of manslaughter.​

So, it must be established he unlawfully killed her without intent to kill or cause GBH. The cause of her death were the multiple injuries sustained on impact with the ground. Did he cause those injuries? Well, he put her on the balcony after having been unlawfully assaulted by her with a metal object (which in itself could have killed him). If he had not put her there, the Crown says, she would not have died in the manner she did. The Crown says her death is a direct result of his act of placing her on the balcony, and then shutting and locking the door. When he did that The crown says, he 'killed her." Really? I cannot see how any Jury can possibly conclude that by his act of placing her on the balcony, he caused her death. All he caused at that stage was placing her there. Doing so, is not likely to cause anyone's death of itself. If he did that, knowing there was a person waiting there to toss her off, then he certainly was party to causing her death, but that did not happen. She was by herself on the balcony. It really cannot sensibly be concluded that the ONLY outcome of that act of putting her there was her imminent death. There were other far more plausible and reasonably anticipated outcomes, as I have already outlined. On any fair view of the state of play then, on the evidence as has been presented, he had done nothing more that neutralise her, de-escalate the drama and remove a person who had only just unlawfully assaulted him with a metal object, an assault which could easily have killed him or caused GBH. The nexus between cause of death and his conduct is broken.

Another Poster has commented that The Defence Barrister had misled the Jury on what the facts are. I can assure you there is nothing more damaging to a defence case than have the Trial Judge, who always has the last say to the Jury, instruct the Jury - "Members of the Jury, you have heard Mr Elde Fruit inform you that *here insert a 'fact' claimed by the Barrister.* I am instructing you as follows - Mr Elde fruit has misled you, and it is my duty to correct him. Whether or not he intended to will likely be dealt with in another place. What he told you was totally wrong, and you must completely ignore it." Can you imaging the impact of that on a Jury?
​

 

[Makara]

Yes - I have followed every aspect of the trial. I noted that your opinion is that Tostee dangled her over the balcony. Note that neither side are stating that this occurred or arguing that it occurred - it is irrelevant. Where are you getting this idea from?

Have you been following this case since day one or you've only followed every aspect of the trial. Were you at the trial? It would be interesting to hear your take on the actual goings on in the courtroom.

Oh and you didn't answer my question. Have you listened to Tostee's tape?

 

[SouthAussie]

I must admit that I am suspicious of Tostee as he was not cross-examined. So IMO he could have changed the crime scene and unscrewed the telescope himself otherwise why not leave it there where it was for the police to find. Why would he have screwed it back on? Did she actually pick up something else and he wanted everyone to believe that it was part of the telescope and he made sure of the heavy sound of something else dropping himself. Also I think he threw most of those "rocks" around later. How many can we hear on the tape?

Is it possible Tostee said that Warriena tried to hit him with a 'metal object' because he needed to show how 'dangerous' Warriena was (he knew the pebbles were a pretty feeble attempt to show that) to try to justify his actions?

Then he had to have a think about what that metal object could be. Could it be his carpet-laying tools? Could it be a frying pan? Could it be a dinner knife/fork/spoon? No, I know! It can be the telescope clamp!

It just makes NO sense to me why he said 'metal object'. If Warriena tried to hit him with that deadly little telescope clamp , why not say so right from the get-go?

Remember, he had already spoken with his lawyer before he went to the police. And perhaps to his all-knowing busty blonde dusty wanna-be lawyer friend too.

I would love to hear the noise that clamp makes when it hits the floor. See if it is anything like the noise we heard in the recording.

.

 

[Makara]

Mr Elde fruit has misled you, and it is my duty to correct him. Whether or not he intended to will likely be dealt with in another place. What he told you was totally wrong, and you must completely ignore it."

BBM: UBM: Exactly! That's what we've all been saying for ages now.