Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[centred]

The Crabbs live at number 51.

"Peter and Sharelle Crabb, who lived at 51 Benaroon Drive at the time, heard the sound of a vehicle turning and driving away."

William Tyrrell inquest: Neighbour saw a child wearing a Spider-Man suit -Kidspot

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I just reread because of your link and noted the reference to the postie again and that Chapman had been waiting for the postie .. yet at the time he suggested this drive by happened the postie had already been a lot earlier than usual as per the Crabbs thinking it was the postie . So had the postie been or not ? Chapman was still waiting for the postie ? more puzzling contradictions which i am sure has been chewed over and over again. Is it any wonder the coroner has questions wanted answered by investigators . IMO

 

[mmindymoo]

I feel if I had looked for my missing child - a lap outside/inside, particularly on a property with no fences, I would have called my husband.

Because If I'm not quite at the point of calling police - I would want his opinion on what to do next and another able person to come check neighbours yards. Especially knowing he is not that far away - so not a hour away.

I wouldn't just wait till it was his expected time to come back.

But if I felt responsible due to lack of supervision and perhaps the ramifications in regard to other foster child - I may want to not have my husbands judgement on me and I might be tempted to drive out to the intersection where Benaroon drive meets Batar Road - self preservation maybe hoping to not need to alert husband at all. MOO

Perhaps the text from MFC prompted FFC to seek the whereabouts of the children. Maybe a thought train like, ok, hubby's on his way, better make sure the kids aren't on the drive... where's Will? That would explain the hesitation on the 000 call when being asked how long has he been missing.

 

[Couldbe]

Perhaps the text from MFC prompted FFC to seek the whereabouts of the children. Maybe a thought train like, ok, hubby's on his way, better make sure the kids aren't on the drive... where's Will? That would explain the hesitation on the 000 call when being asked how long has he been missing.

William Tyrrell's foster mother gives her version of what happened at the home where he disappeared | Daily Mail Online

"Police estimated William vanished between 10.05am and 10.20am.

Around 10.30am, William's foster father texted his wife to say he was returning home after buying newspapers nearby.

The foster mother said she saw the text after she had started looking for William."

 

[centred]

BBM
I don't think that is correct.

There appears to be confusion probably due to misreporting. The Crabbs left for their morning walk at 8.30 and arrived home at 9.45. Approximately 40mins later they heard a car driving up the street relatively fast and do a u-turn on gravel which they thought was the postie as it sounded the same.

The evidence they and Det. Sargearnt Beacroft have given is only about one car.

Not surprising Blues , that timeline came from the link from the DR Slueth timeline shared from previous threads and suggested it was from the inquest and CO book .

Still if the Crabbs came back from walk at 9:45 am and heard the car 40 mins later takes the timeline to approx.10;30 ? So do you have a link to that ? If Mr Crabb is correct then the car drive took place closer to 10.00am ? So which is correct ?

 

[SouthAussie]

Not surprising Blues , that timeline came from the link from the DR Slueth timeline shared from previous threads and suggested it was from the inquest and CO book .

Still if the Crabbs came back from walk at 9:45 am and heard the car 40 mins later takes the timeline to approx.10;30 ? So do you have a link to that ? If Mr Crabb is correct then the car drive took place closer to 10.00am ? So which is correct ?

drsleuth's info (in which Mrs Crabb's words were taken from her testimony) said that they arrived home at 9:30-9:35.
About 40 mins later makes the 'postie sounding car' being heard at around 10:10-10:15, as stated.


09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” (from her evidence)

 

[drsleuth]

BBM
I don't think that is correct.

There appears to be confusion probably due to misreporting. The Crabbs left for their morning walk at 8.30 and arrived home at 9.45. Approximately 40mins later they heard a car driving up the street relatively fast and do a u-turn on gravel which they thought was the postie as it sounded the same.

The evidence they and Det. Sargearnt Beacroft have given is only about one car.

I agree that the evidence is only about 1 car & both thought it was the postie

Mr Crabb said about 10 mins after they got home & Mrs Crabb said about 40 mins.

From my notes they got home at 09:30-09:35 ( after initially saying it was 10:30 ---police retraced their movements , they had been to a butcher's shop ( heard this from Mr Craddock & they had a receipt , they had also used a loyalty card somewhere ( from Detective Beacrofts testimony)


Corrected times
09:40 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:15 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )


So that puts the time MR C heard the vehicle @ about 09:40 - 09:45 & Mrs C @ about 10:10 - 10:15


From memory , I think MRS C said she also prepared some of the evening meal also before going out onto the back deck to have a cup of tea. I think that would have taken more than 10 mins IMO ?

IMO I think Mrs C is correct & that fits with Laidlaws & Beacrofts time as well of 10:10 or 10:15

 

[drsleuth]

Not surprising Blues , that timeline came from the link from the DR Slueth timeline shared from previous threads and suggested it was from the inquest and CO book .

Still if the Crabbs came back from walk at 9:45 am and heard the car 40 mins later takes the timeline to approx.10;30 ? So do you have a link to that ? If Mr Crabb is correct then the car drive took place closer to 10.00am ? So which is correct ?

BBM : no suggestion at all, it was from the testimony I heard at the inquest.

 

[interested64]

I agree that the evidence is only about 1 car & both thought it was the postie

Mr Crabb said about 10 mins after they got home & Mrs Crabb said about 40 mins.

From my notes they got home at 09:30-09:35 ( after initially saying it was 10:30 ---police retraced their movements , they had been to a butcher's shop ( heard this from Mr Craddock & they had a receipt , they had also used a loyalty card somewhere ( from Detective Beacrofts testimony)


Corrected times
09:40 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:15 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )


So that puts the time MR C heard the vehicle @ about 09:40 - 09:45 & Mrs C @ about 10:10 - 10:15


From memory , I think MRS C said she also prepared some of the evening meal also before going out onto the back deck to have a cup of tea. I think that would have taken more than 10 mins IMO ?

IMO I think Mrs C is correct & that fits with Laidlaws & Beacrofts time as well of 10:10 or 10:15

Maybe the car came up the street twice..just a thought

 

[Blues Clues]

Thank you SA and drS that makes it much clearer

 

[mmindymoo]

William Tyrrell's foster mother gives her version of what happened at the home where he disappeared | Daily Mail Online

"Police estimated William vanished between 10.05am and 10.20am.

Around 10.30am, William's foster father texted his wife to say he was returning home after buying newspapers nearby.

The foster mother said she saw the text after she had started looking for William."

Yes, however, the FFC version of events may not be truthful.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, however, the FFC version of events may not be truthful.

"Perhaps the text from MFC prompted FFC to seek the whereabouts of the children. Maybe a thought train like, ok, hubby's on his way, better make sure the kids aren't on the drive... where's Will? That would explain the hesitation on the 000 call when being asked how long has he been missing."

What I am getting from the scenario proposed in your previous post (if FM is being less than truthful) is that:

FM would see the (presumably verified) 10:30am text
go and look for William, see him laying somewhere
check him over to see if he was alive
maybe try CPR while crying a few tears
decide that William is deceased
go and grab FGM's keys
tell FGM something to explain why Lindsay needs to be watched (or not)
carefully place William in FGM's car somehow
drive a short distance down Batar Creek Road
throw something out of the window
pull over and carefully place William somewhere
drive home
speak to AMS at her house, a little further down the road, at 10:40am - AMS could also hear FD yelling for William

10 minutes doesn't seem enough time to do all of that. There would need to be a decision making process in there somewhere.
Is he dead? can I help him? what should I do?

imo

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

Is there any information as to whether the car heard by the Crabbs was the posty, as in if Aust Post records were located of mail volume that day, times if recorded etc?

 

[mmindymoo]

"Perhaps the text from MFC prompted FFC to seek the whereabouts of the children. Maybe a thought train like, ok, hubby's on his way, better make sure the kids aren't on the drive... where's Will? That would explain the hesitation on the 000 call when being asked how long has he been missing."

What I am getting from the scenario proposed in your previous post (if FM is being less than truthful) is that:

FM would see the (presumably verified) 10:30am text
go and look for William, see him laying somewhere
check him over to see if he was alive
maybe try CPR while crying a few tears
decide that William is deceased
go and grab FGM's keys
tell FGM something to explain why Lindsay needs to be watched (or not)
carefully place William in FGM's car somehow
drive a short distance down Batar Creek Road
throw something out of the window
pull over and carefully place William somewhere
drive home
speak to AMS at her house, a little further down the road, at 10:40am - AMS could also hear FD yelling for William

10 minutes doesn't seem enough time to do all of that. There would need to be a decision making process in there somewhere.
Is he dead? can I help him? what should I do?

imo

In the scenario that FFC has lost track of time and is prompted by MFC text, the most likely scenario would be lost in the bush or taken... I agree, too littl time for an accident cover up.

TBH I go from thinking, yep accident coverup to FA or similar has taken him... or BP have orchestrated a snatch.

 

[SLouTh]

Off topic...

There is another little girl, 9y/o CM, missing in NSW... Australia.

Have started a thread here:
Australia - CM, 9 y/o, Missing Mt Wilson, Blue Mountains (websleuths.com)

Let us all hope she is found safe soon x

 

[SLouTh]

Is there any information as to whether the car heard by the Crabbs was the posty, as in if Aust Post records were located of mail volume that day, times if recorded etc?

IIRC there was only ever a "Postie" statement mentioned at the inquest, and the other details have been kept close to the chest, by Police.
IMO

 

[Couldbe]

William Tyrrell's foster mother gives her version of what happened at the home where he disappeared | Daily Mail Online

My thoughts on FFC’s relating in her walkthrough video (apparently videoed on the sixth day following William’s disappearance, are that she related her statement as her honest fact at the time. We are unaware if that truck driver ever came forward to identify himself and verify her encounter with him.

JMO - It is debatable that FFC would have felt the need to put her head out of the window of FGM’s vehicle to look for William….she would have been able to see him by glancing around from inside of FGM’s Mazda.

Following that’ pulling over’, FFC said that she then continued on, driving slowly to the Riding School…at that point concluding that he wasn’t there…and then returned home.

So, my point is: The walkthrough video has been edited and has resulted in the fact that it is only FFC’s description of her drive to the Riding School (6 days later) that has been released for us, the public, to view. The focus on this part of the walkthrough could possibly be of concern because:

………If this is the first time the LE have heard about the drive to the Riding School, they would possibly to have questioned why….because they could have much earlier investigated who that truck driver was and interviewed him in relation to William’s disappearance; maybe he could have contributed other useful information.

Therefore, LE may be querying why FFC took so long to mention the drive to the Riding School; and did she not consider it important / or was she endeavouring to not have it known by anyone….for reasons of her own.

In focussing on the various discrepancies in FFC's repoirting of events surrounding William's disappearance, this further searching commencing in November 2021 has been conducted:

Police reveal 'one suspect' is focus of the new search for William Tyrrell
"Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett assured the public that the police were not acting on speculation - but rather, concrete evidence.

This activity is in response to evidence we have obtained in the course of the investigation, not speculative in any way, we are acting on behalf of the coroner and in conjunction with the colonial orders, she will be kept updated with regard to our progress,” said Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett said."

 

[mmindymoo]

William Tyrrell's foster mother gives her version of what happened at the home where he disappeared | Daily Mail Online

My thoughts on FFC’s relating in her walkthrough video (apparently videoed on the sixth day following William’s disappearance, are that she related her statement as her honest fact at the time. We are unaware if that truck driver ever came forward to identify himself and verify her encounter with him.

JMO - It is debatable that FFC would have felt the need to put her head out of the window of FGM’s vehicle to look for William….she would have been able to see him by glancing around from inside of FGM’s Mazda.

Following that’ pulling over’, FFC said that she then continued on, driving slowly to the Riding School…at that point concluding that he wasn’t there…and then returned home.

So, my point is: The walkthrough video has been edited and has resulted in the fact that it is only FFC’s description of her drive to the Riding School (6 days later) that has been released for us, the public, to view. The focus on this part of the walkthrough could possibly be of concern because:

………If this is the first time the LE have heard about the drive to the Riding School, they would possibly to have questioned why….because they could have much earlier investigated who that truck driver was and interviewed him in relation to William’s disappearance; maybe he could have contributed other useful information.

Therefore, LE may be querying why FFC took so long to mention the drive to the Riding School; and did she not consider it important / or was she endeavouring to not have it known by anyone….for reasons of her own.

In focussing on the various discrepancies in FFC's repoirting of events surrounding William's disappearance, this further searching commencing in November 2021 has been conducted:

Police reveal 'one suspect' is focus of the new search for William Tyrrell
"Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett assured the public that the police were not acting on speculation - but rather, concrete evidence.

This activity is in response to evidence we have obtained in the course of the investigation, not speculative in any way, we are acting on behalf of the coroner and in conjunction with the colonial orders, she will be kept updated with regard to our progress,” said Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett said."

To the point of the truck driver.. if my son was missing and a truck locked eyes with me, I would be like, who is he, does he have Will, did he hit him, why did he look at me.. maybe I should grab the rego number... is it busy road that trucks frequent? I would be super suspicious of anyone I encountered.. It certainly wouldn't have been omitted.

 

[SouthAussie]

To the point of the truck driver.. if my son was missing and a truck locked eyes with me, I would be like, who is he, does he have Will, did he hit him, why did he look at me.. maybe I should grab the rego number... is it busy road that trucks frequent? I would be super suspicious of anyone I encountered.. It certainly wouldn't have been omitted.

Isn't the 'locking eyes' encounter with the person driving the teal car (when the children were riding bikes in the driveway)?

I thought that the truck driver just acknowledged that FM pulled over. I don't recall that FM locked eyes with him as well. I must have missed that and I am not finding that info on Google when I search. Is there a link please?

..... man drove past them in the dead-end street. The foster mother locked eyes with him as he continued down the road in an old teal-coloured car.
‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old


I think Batar Creek Road is quite a well-used road, by the sounds of things. Batar Creek Road was also involved in this ....

He said on the day William went missing he had seen a white sedan driving “crazily” down Batar Creek Road and the driver using his left hand to push something into the passenger side footwell, Palmer said.
William Tyrrell inquest: court hears conflicting evidence about car driving 'crazily'

 

[JWSleuth]

On September 12, Senior Constable Christopher Rowley arrived at the property of William's foster grandmother at 11.06am - 10 minutes after the toddler's foster mother frantically called police to report him missing.
Counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock SC, asked: "(You) canvassed local businesses to see if anyone expressed any interest in Benaroon Drive, and I think you identified at a cafe a person who could recall someone asking for directions?"
"Yes," the officer replied.
Sen Const Rowley searched the family property when he got to the scene and asked another officer to do the same when he arrived.

His initial search did not include the roof space or the garage.
"I would've tried to do it but it was either locked or too heavy for a young child to lift himself," the senior constable said.
He told the inquest there was a large amount of thick lantana opposite William's foster grandmother's house.
"The young fella wouldn't have (gotten in there). Especially wearing a little nylon Spider-Man suit ......

William's biological mum explains disappearing with him as a baby


I don't know that I have ever seen a link that said Rowley checked the tea, Rowley checked the bonnet.

In fact, I think a link (about the bonnet) was asked for a while back. But it never came. IIRC imo

I think is interesting in that they didn’t check spaces a child could not enter IMO and no shade thrown they where investigating a child missing. But what if?

 

[JBowie]

FFC was asked by 000"was he wearing shoes " and that was not answered at the time .

And we have the 000 operator to thank for that because she asked two questions at once:

Operator: OK. Would he have had any shoes on do you know? Any other distinguishing features?

Foster Mother: Um, um, um he has oh he's got a freckle on the top of his head when you part the hair on the left hand side (Operator: yep) you'll see a freckle on the top of his head.