Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[interested64]

GO had a reason to be in Benaroon Drive.

He had inspected the work required to the deck and was planning on doing the work the following week when he received a call to say his day surgery procedure had been scheduled. He then needed to contact FGM to advise her he would not be able to come as planned. He said he rang on Thursday evening and spoke to FFC's sister. FFC's sister was not there. He did ring at 9.10am on the Friday morning and his call was not answered. He has given two explanations of where he was at the time of William's disappearance. In one he said he was in Kendall renewing his subscription to the local newsletter. In the other he said he couldn't remember.

After his phone call wasn't answered, did he decide to drive out to Benaroon Drive and let FGM know he wouldn't be able to carry out the work until after his surgery?

Why would he need to ph again if he had said he spoke to ffc sister..she could have passed message on....so that's a lie if she wasn't there at all...he ph 9.10am and the call went un answered...mmmm he was doing advert..do we know what time that was

 

[SouthAussie]

Why would he need to ph again if he had said he spoke to ffc sister..she could have passed message on....so that's a lie if she wasn't there at all...he ph 9.10am and the call went un answered...mmmm he was doing advert..do we know what time that was

GO was at the Community Centre between 10-11am that morning.

There is a timeline here that drsleuth put together from inquest notes, and a bit from Caroline Overington's book - posted here in Feb 2020.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

 

[centred]

It's in this interview

Thank you for the link iiiii

I have had a chance to listen twice and i cannot find a correction . Only time mentioned was in the first moments and this was not what i recall . So i am guessing it must be another .

While i am here , in regards to my asking about the car the neighbors heard and after going through confusing statements and timelines re inquest . There is a suggestion the neighbors heard a car twice and at different times ? Curious

09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

 

[nightrider17]

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes

10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )


Do you think its possible that after being asked to take photos - that William gets antsy/and leaves back deck by himself - no shoes on - these are on the verandah near the sliding door.

He runs round to front of property near the Crabbs Property - which he now feels familiar with and more confident after having ridden his bike there earlier.

Meanwhile could FFC and FGM then decide to have their tea - which involves making it and drinking before they notice he's gone. Could be 20 minutes all up. MOO

 

[nightrider17]

I feel if I had looked for my missing child - a lap outside/inside, particularly on a property with no fences, I would have called my husband.

Because If I'm not quite at the point of calling police - I would want his opinion on what to do next and another able person to come check neighbours yards. Especially knowing he is not that far away - so not a hour away.

I wouldn't just wait till it was his expected time to come back.

But if I felt responsible due to lack of supervision and perhaps the ramifications in regard to other foster child - I may want to not have my husbands judgement on me and I might be tempted to drive out to the intersection where Benaroon drive meets Batar Road - self preservation maybe hoping to not need to alert husband at all. MOO

 

[nightrider17]

I thinking her state of mind :
from 9.37 onwards could have been impacted by:-

Starting from a few days before:
She was already starting to feel - overwhelmed questioning if she should continue fostering.
She has rushed to get cats into cattery
Pushed arrival time to night before
She then took children to McDonalds - maybe this is stressful even if children enjoy - maybe they are pumped up.
Has to pull over to put on night nappy - maybe she ordinarily is on top of this - but forgot in the rush - but still managed to do it - tick
Had to sleep with one of the children overnight - so maybe didn't have a restful sleep
There was plenty of activities - bike riding, races, tree climbing all before 9.30
Wanted to take photos to record - event - expected this of herself
9.37 - 9.45 - maybe she let herself off the hook - relaxed took her eye off William - maybe she's guilty of negligence - due to her own standards of ticking everything off and being that great parent.
And now she would have to admit - find out - that she contributed to him being unsupervised. MOO

 

[centred]

I feel if I had looked for my missing child - a lap outside/inside, particularly on a property with no fences, I would have called my husband.

Because If I'm not quite at the point of calling police - I would want his opinion on what to do next and another able person to come check neighbours yards. Especially knowing he is not that far away - so not a hour away.

I wouldn't just wait till it was his expected time to come back.

But if I felt responsible due to lack of supervision and perhaps the ramifications in regard to other foster child - I may want to not have my husbands judgement on me and I might be tempted to drive out to the intersection where Benaroon drive meets Batar Road - self preservation maybe hoping to not need to alert husband at all. MOO

I am completely puzzled by all of the so called evidence of what happened when because i was under the impression that message FFC sent was received before the little fellow took off because he was on the look out for Daddy coming home because he was told too by FFC .

So speculation on what i would do is useless IMO when we just have story after story being full of inaccuracies however yes i tend to agree that self preservation is paramount when it comes to human nature and behaviors IMOO

 

[nightrider17]

Just the podcasts and interview with 60 minutes - is just a recount - years later . The timeline provided by Dr Sleuth earlier makes me question what possibilities could have happened. Where a possibility that the Crabs heard a car that might have been involved. If William had jumped off the back verandah more closer to 9.45 am.
Relooking at that timeline - does show inconsistencies/holes/gaps - and that really can only be how to start to piece together - what possibilities there were for 3rd Party intervention. Maybe Im overthinking it. MOO

 

[centred]

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes

10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )


Do you think its possible that after being asked to take photos - that William gets antsy/and leaves back deck by himself - no shoes on - these are on the verandah near the sliding door.

He runs round to front of property near the Crabbs Property - which he now feels familiar with and more confident after having ridden his bike there earlier.

Meanwhile could FFC and FGM then decide to have their tea - which involves making it and drinking before they notice he's gone. Could be 20 minutes all up. MOO

Thats possible i suppose . I was thinking it was only one vehicle that perhaps the Crabbs heard and that it took longer to toilet , tea and seat on back deck and the car they heard was the FFC driving off to Batar creek Rd at 10;05 10:10 . But yes i guess its possible it was a longer window of opportunity of up to at least 20 minutes for something to happen before the FFC jumped in the car to look or to throw the shoes away or something or another someone to do something as well.

 

[katydid23]

Thats possible i suppose . I was thinking it was only one vehicle that perhaps the Crabbs heard and that it took longer to toilet , tea and seat on back deck and the car they heard was the FFC driving off to Batar creek Rd at 10;05 10:10 . But yes i guess its possible it was a longer window of opportunity of up to at least 20 minutes for something to happen before the FFC jumped in the car to look or to throw the shoes away or something or another someone to do something as well.

Why would she need to throw the shoes away, separate from where the body was disposed of?

 

[SouthAussie]

DBM - was thinking of AMS

 

[Blues Clues]

The Crabbs live at number 51.

"Peter and Sharelle Crabb, who lived at 51 Benaroon Drive at the time, heard the sound of a vehicle turning and driving away."

William Tyrrell inquest: Neighbour saw a child wearing a Spider-Man suit -Kidspot

 

[SouthAussie]

The Crabbs live at number 51.

"Peter and Sharelle Crabb, who lived at 51 Benaroon Drive at the time, heard the sound of a vehicle turning and driving away."

William Tyrrell inquest: Neighbour saw a child wearing a Spider-Man suit -Kidspot

View attachment 329782

Yes, thanks. I edited because I was thinking of AMS and saying the Crabbs.

(Been a tough work day, is my excuse )

The Crabbs evidence seems very significant to me. Living so far up the hill, and hearing the vehicle come up, turn around, and leave again. At that time.

 

[Blues Clues]

Yes, thanks. I edited because I was thinking of AMS and saying the Crabbs.

(Been a tough work day, is my excuse )

The Crabbs evidence seems very significant to me. Living so far up the hill, and hearing the vehicle come up, turn around, and leave again. At that time.

I agree SA that their evidence is significant, especially as it appears Det Sargeant Beacroft and DCI Laidlaw have put the time of William's disappearance within the same time range as the Crabbs heard the car.

 

[Warshawski]

The Crabbs live at number 51.

"Peter and Sharelle Crabb, who lived at 51 Benaroon Drive at the time, heard the sound of a vehicle turning and driving away."

William Tyrrell inquest: Neighbour saw a child wearing a Spider-Man suit -Kidspot

View attachment 329782

just to get some perspective on the area / directions etc:

Google Maps

a couple of interesting factors, and I’m sure those here who are familiar with the area, will guide:

* The visibility on streets look to be quite good - so IMO it would be easy to spot anything or anyone ‘out of place’ .

* Seems like the Crabbs lived at the very end of the bitumened stretch of Benaroon Drive. I recall a mention of hearing a vehicle turning on gravel, so that would seem feasible imo. .. and perhaps it may have been the ‘turning around on gravel’ at that time of the day, that made them think it was the Postie ( and not necessarily the actual vehicle type / engine sound )

* Laurel Street ( where Mr Chapman lived) is a very simple 3 min drive from Benaroon Dr & comes out right near the Kendall Tennis club - but it does have exit option via Jackson St too

just my ponderings ..

 

[Blues Clues]

just to get some perspective on the area / directions etc:

Google Maps

a couple of interesting factors, and I’m sure those here who are familiar with the area, will guide:

* The visibility on streets look to be quite good - so IMO it would be easy to spot anything or anyone ‘out of place’ .

* Seems like the Crabbs lived at the very end of the bitumened stretch of Benaroon Drive. I recall a mention of hearing a vehicle turning on gravel, so that would seem feasible imo. .. and perhaps it may have been the ‘turning around on gravel’ at that time of the day, that made them think it was the Postie ( and not necessarily the actual vehicle type / engine sound )

* Laurel Street ( where Mr Chapman lived) is a very simple 3 min drive from Benaroon Dr & comes out right near the Kendall Tennis club - but it does have exit option via Jackson St too

just my ponderings ..

Hi Warsh,

It would be helpful to have it confirmed where the postie turned on the gravel. I had always thought, like you, the car turned at the very end of Benaroon but IIRC, from GJ's interviews with PS presented at his trail we learnt GJ put it to PS that the car the Crabbs heard was on gravel at the entrance to PS's property.

The tennis club at the end of Laurel street is a new facility. It was opened in 2018. The tennis club at the time of William's disappearance was in Graham Street next to the Kendall Services and Citizens Club.

 

[Megnut]

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes

10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )


Do you think its possible that after being asked to take photos - that William gets antsy/and leaves back deck by himself - no shoes on - these are on the verandah near the sliding door.

He runs round to front of property near the Crabbs Property - which he now feels familiar with and more confident after having ridden his bike there earlier.

Meanwhile could FFC and FGM then decide to have their tea - which involves making it and drinking before they notice he's gone. Could be 20 minutes all up. MOO

Yes, thanks. I edited because I was thinking of AMS and saying the Crabbs.

(Been a tough work day, is my excuse )

The Crabbs evidence seems very significant to me. Living so far up the hill, and hearing the vehicle come up, turn around, and leave again. At that time.

Could the vehicle she heard be the FGma's car, both as FCG left and then as she returned?

That is a big window to be absent but Fgma may have been quite content with a newspaper and tea and FD, drawing away contentedly. Unaware of the passage of time given memory issues and youth, respectively.

IMO Wm could have run after his father shortly after his father left. If he turned into the upper balcony...

I think it's possible FCG left the house at 9:45 and returned at 10:10. Brought out more tea and said, "it's too quiet" and started to search.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Could the vehicle she heard be the FGma's car, both as FCG left and then as she returned?

Sounds to me that the vehicle was going in the opposite direction than that.

"car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way"

Came up Benaroon Drive pretty fast (from the bottom of the hill), did a u-turn, and continued back down Benaroon Drive (on its way back down the hill) - is what that statement says to me.

 

[centred]

Why would she need to throw the shoes away, separate from where the body was disposed of?

I honestly do not know Katy . The shoes were mentioned in the comment i replied too and a query through out since FFC was asked by 000"was he wearing shoes " and that was not answered at the time . His shoes were seen in the photo on the verandah near the back door. This was a suggestion for some reason after the local who lived near Battar road approached searchers to say they saw something being thrown from the car at the time . IMO we still do not know where the body was disposed or if indeed it was . We just do not know .

 

[Blues Clues]

09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

BBM
I don't think that is correct.

There appears to be confusion probably due to misreporting. The Crabbs left for their morning walk at 8.30 and arrived home at 9.45. Approximately 40mins later they heard a car driving up the street relatively fast and do a u-turn on gravel which they thought was the postie as it sounded the same.

The evidence they and Det. Sargearnt Beacroft have given is only about one car.